first wedding secured!

[Richard King]

i dont want to take the thread off track - but very interested in the 80 shots v 400 shots , why do people expect that many shots - been to a few weddings recently and seen the images , 1 wedding had 800-1000 shots = playing on the tv and to be honest we were all very bored after 30mins and had only reached the church
Now the book was great - not sure how many photos in that ranged between 1-6 per page
but it told the story and was about the right amount of images to maintain interest

I guess because theres very little cost involved in taking 1000 v 10 against the old days of film, just wondered why so many shots these days.

my experience is old fashioned and used to dealing in film for weddings, But i would still think 80 shots edited and telling the story of the day would be great for the couple

Firstly, I offer my couples a lot of images (more than 400)
Secondly, I choose a pile of images myself for the "storyboard" - About 100
Thirdly, the couple hardly ever chooses for the album what I choose for the storyboard

If you cull images too much, couples will wonder what is missing

 

[etaf]

Yes in the film days that couldnt be done but god i get bored of people saying that, its not the film days and we do not need to limit the amount of shots we take so why not give the client more for there money.

interesting point, i just wondered if because you can , should you ?
but probably this should be in a different forum, maybe from a clients view.

 

[asphotographymk]

interesting point, i just wondered if because you can , should you ?
but probably this should be in a different forum, maybe from a clients view.

How about putting it a different way, Should you do something that clients want? Its something that can be done, that please clients, and that is really no bother , so why not?

The amount of times i have culled an image are been asked, oh i remember you shooting an image at this point but its not there.

 

[jon ryan]

Back in them days 100 seemed about average. The last wedding I did was a couple of years back, on dig, for a friend. I think they got around 300 edited shots.

 

[Phil Young]

Ok...it doesn't seem too bad now I worked it out.

Editing 300 photos at roughly 5mins each, giving them an album at a cost to you of £300 and 40 hours total work (shoot, pp and 5hrs misc) still works out to £30 per hour after the album cost, if you charge £1500.

Not bad.

I was thinking I's be working my socks off for not much but turns out not

 

[etaf]

Should you do something that clients want?

Yes, that was my point really , when i

The amount of times i have culled an image are been asked, oh i remember you shooting an image at this point but its not there

good point , that what i meant by

maybe from a clients view.

so thanks for the answer

clearly what the market expects these days

didnt want to start a flame here at all - I just wondered

 

[asphotographymk]

I was thinking I's be working my socks off for not much but turns out not

Actually when you run a business that is the reality. If i worked out my total earnings to the actual hours i work it would be terrible. Thats the reality of being a business owner.

 

[asphotographymk]

Yes, that was my point really , when i
good point , that what i meant by so thanks for the answer

clearly what the market expects these days

didnt want to start a flame here at all - I just wondered

Not flaming mate just answering your question. It can be done very easily and it is what the client wants to see. So from a business point of view its a no brainer really.

 

[Richard King]

Ok...it doesn't seem too bad now I worked it out.

Editing 300 photos at roughly 5mins each, giving them an album at a cost to you of £300 and 40 hours total work (shoot, pp and 5hrs misc) still works out to £30 per hour after the album cost, if you charge £1500.

Not bad.

I was thinking I's be working my socks off for not much but turns out not

its a lot more time that that

- time to acquire the customer
- contracts
- correspondence
- doing backups
- creating disks
- going to the post office
- looking at the 2000 images that you cull down in the first place
- doing whatever you then do online with the images etc. etc..

 

[meonshore]

Ok...it doesn't seem too bad now I worked it out.

Editing 300 photos at roughly 5mins each, giving them an album at a cost to you of £300 and 40 hours total work (shoot, pp and 5hrs misc) still works out to £30 per hour after the album cost, if you charge £1500.

Not bad.

I was thinking I's be working my socks off for not much but turns out not

That £1200 is a profit after your album. You are going to have more direct costs associated with actually delivering *that* wedding....

- fuel and proofing materials to name two obvious ones.

you also have to as a business apportion your annual costs across the jobs you earn from.....

- insurance- equipment and professional liability
- accounting
- TAX
- replacement photographic kit and servicing
- marketing and advertising costs
- computing and printing equipment

etc etc

 

[Phil Young]

its a lot more time that that

- time to acquire the customer
- contracts
- correspondence
- doing backups
- creating disks
- going to the post office
- looking at the 2000 images that you cull down in the first place
- doing whatever you then do online with the images etc. etc..

I know. Hence the miscellaneous hours which may be too little or not.

 

[Phil Young]

That £1200 is a profit after your album. You are going to have more direct costs associated with actually delivering *that* wedding....

- fuel and proofing materials to name two obvious ones.

you also have to as a business apportion your annual costs across the jobs you earn from.....

- insurance- equipment and professional liability
- accounting
- TAX
- replacement photographic kit and servicing
- marketing and advertising costs
- computing and printing equipment

etc etc

Yep, understand that hence I didn't use the word "profit" as it isn't profit yet.

I merely didn't want to be doing so much work that it comes down to £4 per hour.

As a personal trainer that charges a lot "per hour" without much direct costs, I do have a tendency to look at things like that and up to now photography has been a quarter of my earnings so it literally is pocket money.

I want to do it more (and videography more so) as it's a huge passion and as such I don't mind my "hourly rate" coming down, that and because my work is and would be normally when I wouldn't be training clients.

I understand that the larger the scale the more costs involved and am by no means stupid when it comes to profit and loss, it just to have some financial appeal else as a job there's not a huge point for me personally.

Cheers.

 

[asphotographymk]

Its not the same as working an hourly rate job. If it was i would say i earn around £1 an hour as i work pretty much every second of everyday. So while you can charge an hourly rate for your time working directly for the client the reality is you will be doing many more hours than that direct time.

The fact is as a photographer if you do it well (in both a business and a photography sense) you will earn more than most pts ever will but you will also work more hours for you money. So i guess it depends on whats more important to you, an hourly rate that looks great or a total income and a successful business.

 

[Phil Young]

Its not the same as working an hourly rate job. If it was i would say i earn around £1 an hour as i work pretty much every second of everyday. So while you can charge an hourly rate for your time working directly for the client the reality is you will be doing many more hours than that direct time.

The fact is as a photographer if you do it well (in both a business and a photography sense) you will earn more than most pts ever will but you will also work more hours for you money. So i guess it depends on whats more important to you, an hourly rate that looks great or a total income and a successful business.

Sod that. Live to work...not my way of life! I'll definitely just be keeping to part time and both jobs.

Anyway we'll see how everything goes!

 

[asphotographymk]

Sod that. Live to work...not my way of life! I'll definitely just be keeping to part time and both jobs.

Anyway we'll see how everything goes!

I guess you dont have a family and a mortgage to think about then? Running a business is long hours and hard work but if that business is something you are passionate about and it gives your family a roof over there hear and food on there table then its moe than worth it. Even pt you are going to have to put the hours in if you want it to work.

 

[Phil Young]

I guess you dont have a family and a mortgage to think about then? Running a business is long hours and hard work but if that business is something you are passionate about and it gives your family a roof over there hear and food on there table then its moe than worth it. Even pt you are going to have to put the hours in if you want it to work.

It's not about having bills to pay, once upon a time I was earning a lot of money from PT, I could pay my rent live well and afford a Caribbean holiday every month but for me, I was at the gym ALL the time, up at 5.30am back home at 9-10pm Monday to Friday and working most weekends too.

Everyone's different, the clever ones of us will work smart and earn the Samsonite whilst working less - getting other people to earn us money, etc but getting back to the point, my life was unbalanced and I don't want to live that way.

If you feel that's what you want/have to do then that's fine but for me life should be balanced and just like the wings of a plane, if the balance is wrong then the plane will start to tip and fall, for me, my relationship suffered and I ended up driving my girlfriend back to Norway due to neglection.

Life story over, like I said, great for you if you're living the life you want, but I'd prefer to work a little less to have a better balance, I now work 3 days a week, in time I may up my hours but I won't get back to that unhealthy (IMO) way again.

Coincidentally, today I had my second session with someone that feels he overworks and so is training with me to get his mind away from that...

 

[decigallen]

...surely I have to limit it somewhere no? I can't edit 400 photos for them!?

Or maybe that's why most wedding photographers just do minor adjustments to photos?

If your photos are well composed and shot then you'll need to only do minor adjustments to them! Most couples will expect more than 80 photographs... i'd find it impossible to tell the story of the day with just 80!!!

We deliver 5-600 images to the couple. Shoot about 2000 > cull to around 800 > edit > cull to 5-600 > final tweaks and deliver.

 

[weybourne]

Its not the same as working an hourly rate job. If it was i would say i earn around £1 an hour as i work pretty much every second of everyday.
...I guess you dont have a family and a mortgage to think about then?

At £1 p.h., to earn the same as an adult on minimum wage (£6.08 p.h.) doing a 40 hour week, you'd need to work over 34 hours a day, 7 days a week!

 

[Phil Young]

At £1 p.h., to earn the same as an adult on minimum wage (£6.08 p.h.) doing a 40 hour week, you'd need to work over 34 hours a day, 7 days a week!

Thanks for the clear up there but it's fairly obvious I was being sarcastic...

EDIT: Hold up just read you didn't quote me...sorry!

 

[weybourne]

The point I was making was that the hyperbole kind of defeated the reasoning that it was done to support a family - but I wholly understand Andy's sentiment that if you need to put in the high number of hours to support your family by doing something you're passionate about, then it's worth it.

 

[stormienam]

It's not about having bills to pay, once upon a time I was earning a lot of money from PT, I could pay my rent live well and afford a Caribbean holiday every month but for me, I was at the gym ALL the time, up at 5.30am back home at 9-10pm Monday to Friday and working most weekends too.

Everyone's different, the clever ones of us will work smart and earn the Samsonite whilst working less - getting other people to earn us money, etc but getting back to the point, my life was unbalanced and I don't want to live that way.

If you feel that's what you want/have to do then that's fine but for me life should be balanced and just like the wings of a plane, if the balance is wrong then the plane will start to tip and fall, for me, my relationship suffered and I ended up driving my girlfriend back to Norway due to neglection.

Life story over, like I said, great for you if you're living the life you want, but I'd prefer to work a little less to have a better balance, I now work 3 days a week, in time I may up my hours but I won't get back to that unhealthy (IMO) way again.

Coincidentally, today I had my second session with someone that feels he overworks and so is training with me to get his mind away from that...

Agree

Work life balance is the most important thing for me, work enough to pay bills keep food on table roof over head then rest of time with family, was nearly killed in a scooter accident few years ago, near death really does give you a different look on life, before I was monies monies monies, then laying in hospital bed and thinking if I didn't stay late that night at work I would not have been there at time of accident.

Good luck with the wedding too

 

[williams359]

seems a bit odd only giving them 80 edited. I take it you are doing a disc only package. With mine the average is 550 -650 and the are all edited. If you are shooting raw it does not take long to edit them all for viewing. One thing you must do is look at the venue and imagine it's going to rain all day. Have a plan and equipment in place for for all group shots inside.

 

[asphotographymk]

At £1 p.h., to earn the same as an adult on minimum wage (£6.08 p.h.) doing a 40 hour week, you'd need to work over 34 hours a day, 7 days a week!

It was an over exaggeration to make a point. I work from about 16 hours a day and yes i work 7 days a week. But as i love the job its worth it. And i want more than just the basic needs for my family. Many people at my age cant even afford rent these days and i am willing to put the hours in to give more back to my wife and boy.

The point is with buisness you get out what you put in. If you want to sit back and expect to make a living of a few hours work than photography or being a self employed photographer is not for you. I know many business owners in many sectors and most would tell you the same thing.

 

[weybourne]

It was an over exaggeration to make a point. I work from about 16 hours a day and yes i work 7 days a week. But as i love the job its worth it. And i want more than just the basic needs for my family. Many people at my age cant even afford rent these days and i am willing to put the hours in to give more back to my wife and boy.

The point is with buisness you get out what you put in. If you want to sit back and expect to make a living of a few hours work than photography or being a self employed photographer is not for you. I know many business owners in many sectors and most would tell you the same thing.

I realise that it was an exaggeration and I would like to stress that I didn't mean any disrespect by my remark. I do understand where you're coming from - please see my response at post #60.

 

[big soft moose]

seems a bit odd only giving them 80 edited. I take it you are doing a disc only package. With mine the average is 550 -650 and the are all edited. If you are shooting raw it does not take long to edit them all for viewing..

I usually only give them about 120 editted - im mean who really wants to wade through 600 shots of their big day while deciding which prints they want to send to great aunt flo.

 

[Phil Young]

Well I'm out today second shooting (although the first shooter has stated she is a keen amateur without a huge amount of experience...slightly weird) so my position today is to get all the shots but without the stress. I'm really glad of my position because it allows me to practice leading up to my first paid first shooter job on the 24th.

I'll post some shots later for feedback.

Cheers.

 

[ShoeQueen]

That's a great way to develop your style and hone your skills without as much of the pressure. I second shot two weddings in the past month and it really helped a lot when I came to on last week where I was the only photographer. Second shooting still has some pressure - you do still want to get the shots, but less of a disaster if you mess some up.

 

[Phil Young]

Folks.

Here's the link to the images taken from the wedding we were discussing here. Just finished with editing all the images - Gary and I covered the ceremony & reception (no bridal prep which felt quite strange...)

Total edited images came to 226 out of a total of around 1200 total captures.

THREAD

Feedback would be appreciated.

 

[swanseamale47]

Folks.

Here's the link to the images taken from the wedding we were discussing here. Just finished with editing all the images - Gary and I covered the ceremony & reception (no bridal prep which felt quite strange...)

Total edited images came to 226 out of a total of around 1200 total captures.

THREAD

Feedback would be appreciated.

Thats a lot of wastage/culling, out of 1200 I'd expect to end up with a minimum of around 800-1000 usable shots.

 

[Phil Young]

Half of them were duplicates (or more) from being in machine gun mode and the rest didn't meet my standards. It was a tricky venue to shoot.

 

[Dan_H]

Thats a lot of wastage/culling, out of 1200 I'd expect to end up with a minimum of around 800-1000 usable shots.

Although it's a lot of waste, (having no experience) id think 800-1000 would be to many to show a couple so they can choose for an album, even on a slide show DVD that's a lot to sit through. If I'm wrong then please correct me