First Time Under Floodlights.....

Russ77

Russ77

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Attended my first National League Rugby Union game on Saturday with my local team Southend taking on Redruth.

15:00 KO and I knew the second half would be under lights but didn't know how effective they would be in terms of photography.

I was armed with my 7D & 100-400L, for the first 15 mins or so I was getting away with ISO800 but then was resigned to increasing it to keep the shutter speed up.

I think I started off at ISO3200 for the second half and ended up maxed out at ISO12800 in the last 10-15mins, even at that level I found that 1/320 was the lowestest I could go shutter speed-wise and was unable to use much more than 200mm to keep the aperture open af f5.0.

I limited my shots to the slower moving action, scrums, lineouts etc, anything involving running just wasn't working with that shutter speed.

My question is, was there anything else I could have done given those conditions with my equipment?

Not sure if this link to the gallery will work or not but here goes http://www.pitchero.com/clubs/southendrfc/photos/southend-rfc-vs-redruth-rfc-8t-346915.html
 
I'll be the first one to say: start saving for an f2.8 lens...

I know this isn't easy when the longer end of your zoom gives a narrower aperture but my suggestion is that, when the light gets low like that, go after more close up shots. No more than one player, or half a player, filling the frame. The loss of detail is less critical when when you have a larger subject in the frame.
 
duncolm said:
I'll be the first one to say: start saving for an f2.8 lens...

I know this isn't easy when the longer end of your zoom gives a narrower aperture but my suggestion is that, when the light gets low like that, go after more close up shots. No more than one player, or half a player, filling the frame. The loss of detail is less critical when when you have a larger subject in the frame.
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Yeah, that was my first thought but seeing as I don't "need" to be taking these photos, justification for anything f2.8 is going to be nigh on impossible :lol:
 
Try under exposing by 2/3rds and then lighten the image in the post processing it's not perfect but perhaps worth a try. Shoot in RAW when the light drops
 
how often do you use the 100-400L?
I use a 70-200 f2.8 sigma and a 2x converter
not as good quality but good for the job and my priority is f2.8 so it's an easy decision for me

I think I started off at ISO3200 for the second half and ended up maxed out at ISO12800 in the last 10-15mins, even at that level I found that 1/320 was the lowestest I could go shutter speed-wise and was unable to use much more than 200mm to keep the aperture open af f5.0.
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200mm makes sense which will get you some more reach on a cropped sensor.
however, why 1/320? was this chosen due to camera shake? I've photographed boxing at 1/250s so I'm not sure why you need 1/320 for rugby?
I would have gone for 1/200 ish and a monopod to help reduce the camera shake if that was an option.
 
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Cheers for the responses.....

Matt, with regards to the 70-200 and x2 converter..... seeing as would that make your widest aperture 5.6, I'm guessing you just dispose of the converter and shoot at 200mm?

The reason for 1/320 was that any lower than that was leaving me with blurry shots, I was using a monopod. That speed would just about let me get some slow running action.

Hmmmmm...... a 70-200mm f2.8 could be a more useful all-round tool, need to work on my business case AKA.... work out how I'm A) going to fund it B) sell the idea to the wife :lol:

Incidentally, the local rag set up a facebook page for all of the local rugby clubs, I posted my photos on there.

Someone commented that it'd been a bad week for local clubs and the only saving grace was that this weeks pictures of Southend are better than previous offerings :)

The awkard thing about that is the guy that usually takes them is also a member of that group and Southend's "official" photographer.

For the record I asked him if he minded me going down there this week as he was working and couldn't make it, he put my name on the gate as the photographer.
 
Gary Coyle said:
That'll increase the shutter speed but will also impact heavily on noise
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True but I did say it wasn't perfect and there's some decent noise reduction software out there. NIK's DFine and Noise Ninja to name but two.
 
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Gary Coyle said:
That'll increase the shutter speed but will also impact heavily on noise
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True but I did say it wasn't perfect and there's some decent noise reduction software out there. NIK's DFine and Noise Ninja to name but two.

Also you might get away with slower shutter speeds in Rugby if the players are running straight towards you.
 
Mark_Fletcher said:
True but I did say it wasn't perfect and there's some decent noise reduction software out there. NIK's DFine and Noise Ninja to name but two.

Also you might get away with slower shutter speeds in Rugby if the players are running straight towards you.
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I was shooting from behind the try line in the first half (and that's my favoured location), the problem with the second half was the battle seemed to take place inbetween the 22 yard lines so I hedged my bets stuck to near the half way line.

The other factor was that the light seemed to drop off quite a bit towards the ends of the pitch.

If nothing else it was a good learning curve!
 
I went to a footy match last week with 70-200 f2.8 on a 7D and a 400 f2.8 on a 1Dx. Firast half no bother with the 7D, but like you in the 2nd half with the floodlights on (such as they are) the 7D was soon out of its depth even with f2.8 glass on it. I was only getting 1/80 shutter speed at max ISO.

I ended up swapping the 70-200 f2.8 on to the 1Dx to catch goal mouth action and celebration shots. Even then on the 1Dx i had to push the ISO to 51,200 to get 1/1000. Probably overkill to want 1/1000 but will drop that to 1/840 or a bit lower to reduce the ISO this week back at the same ground.

Having said that, the 1Dx did produce reasonable shots at ISO 51,200 and with a bit of noise reduction were ok for the newspaper
 
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Best solution would be to sell the 100-400mm and buy a 70-200mm f/2.8 and a 2x converter, in good light you will have a 140-400mm f/5.6 with IQ as good as the 100-400mm and you also have the option of shooting at f/2.8 @ 200mm for when the light drops
 
Gary Coyle said:
Best solution would be to sell the 100-400mm and buy a 70-200mm f/2.8 and a 2x converter, in good light you will have a 140-400mm f/5.6 with IQ as good as the 100-400mm and you also have the option of shooting at f/2.8 @ 200mm for when the light drops
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I think if I was doing this more often and/or more seriously then you're spot on, that'd be the better option by far.

For now I think I'll stick with what I've got and accept the limitations until I've got a couple of grand I can justify for such purposes :lol::
 
ok, you cant get a 2.8 and a tele for the price you can sell the lens for. :D
 
on the constructive side, if its getting really bad and you cant get high enough shutter speed and your maxxed iso. try moving closer a floodlight so that your subjects near you are better lit. I havnt done this myself but after my last shambled try at rugby under terrible floodlights someone gave me this little gem.
 
meatcandy89 said:
on the constructive side, if its getting really bad and you cant get high enough shutter speed and your maxxed iso. try moving closer a floodlight so that your subjects near you are better lit. I havnt done this myself but after my last shambled try at rugby under terrible floodlights someone gave me this little gem.
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Good tip!!!!
 
ive found if the ground is poorly lit, its even worse at the ends under the curner flags, but much better around the halfway line. i also did what was mentioned above and dialed down exposure by 1/3 / 2/3 just to get a little faster shutter speed. you can never use a blurry image but you can also PP a little lightness / noise reduction on and get a useable image.
 
200mm makes sense which will get you some more reach on a cropped sensor.
however, why 1/320? was this chosen due to camera shake? I've photographed boxing at 1/250s so I'm not sure why you need 1/320 for rugby?
I would have gone for 1/200 ish and a monopod to help reduce the camera shake if that was an option.
Click to expand...

1/200 is defo not quick enough for rugby, hands and feet are blurred at this speed. 1/320 is still pushing it.
 
meatcandy89 said:
ive found if the ground is poorly lit, its even worse at the ends under the curner flags, but much better around the halfway line. i also did what was mentioned above and dialed down exposure by 1/3 / 2/3 just to get a little faster shutter speed. you can never use a blurry image but you can also PP a little lightness / noise reduction on and get a useable image.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't encourage underexposing at any time - get it right in camera! This is even more important at night when there's going to be lots of shadows - in underexposing those shadows you're going to lose a lot of detail (clipped blacks), and the result is a poorer image after edit. With that in mind I find if you are going to get your exposure wrong, go over! Its less destructive when you have to pull it all back.

Do whatever it takes to get it right in camera. I can't express that enough.
 
Use manual settings, slowest speed you can get away with, fastest aperture, then boost ISO as the conditions worsen. Under exposed images can be pushed by almost 2 stops in PP after, might be noisy but better than something blurry and useless.
 
Do they have movable floodlights???
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?? i dont understand. "move closer to the floodlights" not move a floodlight closer to you.

I only have 70-200, so the range at which i can get a good quality snap is limited without huge cropping (not good at 128k iso). so if im sitting at the end of the deadball line where it is poorly lit im limiting the amount of well lit subjects.

If i sit at half way line (in poorly lit grounds) under a floodlight, the amount of players that are lit well is going to be more as there is more light in my range with the 70-200.

I havnt tried this as ive only shot 1 game under rly bad floodlights and sat behind the sticks and got bad results, but it makes logical sense?
 
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