First time studio lighting system

draiman

draiman

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Hi guys. I'm looking at setting up my first studio set up and have bought a lastolite hilite with train and have a couple of continuous lights but was looking at upgrading to a pair of flash lights. Currently I have a 5D with Tamron 28-75 and 580exii.

I had been looking at lights with a budget in mind and see a lot of good things about Elinchrom and Bowens. The area I'm thinking of using is fairly large and with the idea that I may expand in future I was thinking 500w lights. Now I've been looking at the bowens esprit 500s and wondered if they're still up there today with there being newer models etc out. I'm aware that they aren't capable of mobile power but what other downsides might I come across in the future as I develop?

Also, if there are any other suggestions of lights then please jump in. Very grateful for any help received.
 
Unless you're desperate for brand new, there's a set of 3 heads in the classifieds currently, leaving you loads from your budget to buy modifiers (which is the important stuff).

If you want new, you could do a lot worse than a set from Lencarta.
 
The continuous lights that you're using now will be feeble compared to the output of flash, please don't assume that a 500 watt continuous light is in some way comparable with a 500 watt second flash - the flash is at least 1000 times more powerful. So, moving from underpowered continuous lighting to overpowered flash would simply cause you a different type of problem. 500 W/s flashes produce far more power than you need and you would be much better off getting lights with lower power, so that you have some sort of choice of the lens apertures you use, and simply increasing the ISO on your camera if you ever run out of power in a really large space.

The perception that more power = better really dates back to the days of film, and to the very early digital cameras, which had terrible image quality if the ISO went above 100.
 
Thanks guys. I had a look at the three Lencarta heads in the classifieds but they are just a bit too far for me to pick up.

I was aware that continuous was significantly less powerful than flash but 1000x? Maybe I should look into lower powered flashes! I am just curious about the whole studio set up and really wanted kit that would last into the future. Though I don't want to be landed with something that's too powerful to use at all. I take it setting the flashes at a lower setting would still be a massive amount of power?
 
draiman said:
Thanks guys. I had a look at the three Lencarta heads in the classifieds but they are just a bit too far for me to pick up.

I was aware that continuous was significantly less powerful than flash but 1000x? Maybe I should look into lower powered flashes! I am just curious about the whole studio set up and really wanted kit that would last into the future. Though I don't want to be landed with something that's too powerful to use at all. I take it setting the flashes at a lower setting would still be a massive amount of power?
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Yep.
All things being equal, a continuous light outputs its stated power in 1 second, e.g. 500 watts of light during a 1 second exposure.
But we'd be a bit limited if we used a 1 second shutter speed, so to compare it to flash, and assuming a flash duration or shutter speed of 1/250th second, the 500 Ws flash is 250 times more powerful than the 500 watt continuous light.
But all things are not equal.
Flash tubes would become extremely hot if they didn't go on and off again almost immediately, but they do, so they don't get hot at all, or not compared to a continuous lamp.
Lamps vary, but a typical tungsten lamp uses up about 2/3rds of its power consumption by producing heat, not light, so the flash has roughly 750 times more power than continuous light.
And, if you're using flash to freeze action, you might be looking at a much shorter flash duration, which would make the flash much more powerful than in the explanation above. For example, if you needed a shutter speed of 1/1000th second with continuous light, then the continuous light would need to be 8x as powerful as when you're using a more normal shutter speed of around 1/250th.

Most decent flash heads reduce down to 1/32nd of their power. This is 5 stops of adjustment, although some sellers describe it as 6 stops. 200Ws flashes are plenty powerful enough for most situations, without increasing the camera ISO.
 
Garry Edwards said:
Yep.
All things being equal, a continuous light outputs its stated power in 1 second, e.g. 500 watts of light during a 1 second exposure.
But we'd be a bit limited if we used a 1 second shutter speed, so to compare it to flash, and assuming a flash duration or shutter speed of 1/250th second, the 500 Ws flash is 250 times more powerful than the 500 watt continuous light.
But all things are not equal.
Flash tubes would become extremely hot if they didn't go on and off again almost immediately, but they do, so they don't get hot at all, or not compared to a continuous lamp.
Lamps vary, but a typical tungsten lamp uses up about 2/3rds of its power consumption by producing heat, not light, so the flash has roughly 750 times more power than continuous light.
And, if you're using flash to freeze action, you might be looking at a much shorter flash duration, which would make the flash much more powerful than in the explanation above. For example, if you needed a shutter speed of 1/1000th second with continuous light, then the continuous light would need to be 8x as powerful as when you're using a more normal shutter speed of around 1/250th.

Most decent flash heads reduce down to 1/32nd of their power. This is 5 stops of adjustment, although some sellers describe it as 6 stops. 200Ws flashes are plenty powerful enough for most situations, without increasing the camera ISO.
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Thanks. Great explanation there. I'll look into it a bit more and see what would best suit my space. Might be able to save myself a few bob!

I assume the ones in the classifieds would be far too strong for my needs then anyway being 600w.
 
draiman said:
Hi guys. I'm looking at setting up my first studio set up and have bought a lastolite hilite with train and have a couple of continuous lights but was looking at upgrading to a pair of flash lights. Currently I have a 5D with Tamron 28-75 and 580exii.

I had been looking at lights with a budget in mind and see a lot of good things about Elinchrom and Bowens. The area I'm thinking of using is fairly large and with the idea that I may expand in future I was thinking 500w lights. Now I've been looking at the bowens esprit 500s and wondered if they're still up there today with there being newer models etc out. I'm aware that they aren't capable of mobile power but what other downsides might I come across in the future as I develop?

Also, if there are any other suggestions of lights then please jump in. Very grateful for any help received.
Click to expand...

You seem to be doing things the wrong way around, but no matter, you've got the HiLite now - just put it to one side for a bit, until you've built some knowledge and experience.

But with the Hilite in mind (excellent bit of kit BTW), you'll need three lights for that - two either side and one for the main subject. Forget continuous lights. 200Ws flash is fine for home portraits and will give you something around f/16 on full power with a 100cm softbox or similar, at 1.0m ISO100. So you'll mostly be on half or quarter power. You'll need more poke for groups, but with flash you can double the effective power by raising the ISO one stop, or quadruple it with two stops, and so on. Put that another way, shooting ISO400 with 200Ws is the same exposure as ISO100 with 800Ws. Suggest Lencarta Smartflash-2 three-head kit as a good starter outfit, and great value. Get it with white, silver and shoot-through umbrellas. Or look at Elinchrom for a bit more money.

Then when you've got that, just use one head with umbrellas1/2/3 and a reflector. You'll be amazed at what you can do with just one light. Practise, experiment, read, practise, read and ask questions, then practise some more. Then when you know a bit more about how light works, have a go with the Hilite :)
 
HoppyUK said:
You seem to be doing things the wrong way around, but no matter, you've got the HiLite now - just put it to one side for a bit, until you've built some knowledge and experience.

But with the Hilite in mind (excellent bit of kit BTW), you'll need three lights for that - two either side and one for the main subject. Forget continuous lights. 200Ws flash is fine for home portraits and will give you something around f/16 on full power with a 100cm softbox or similar, at 1.0m ISO100. So you'll mostly be on half or quarter power. You'll need more poke for groups, but with flash you can double the effective power by raising the ISO one stop, or quadruple it with two stops, and so on. Put that another way, shooting ISO400 with 200Ws is the same exposure as ISO100 with 800Ws. Suggest Lencarta Smartflash-2 three-head kit as a good starter outfit, and great value. Get it with white, silver and shoot-through umbrellas. Or look at Elinchrom for a bit more money.

Then when you've got that, just use one head with umbrellas1/2/3 and a reflector. You'll be amazed at what you can do with just one light. Practise, experiment, read, practise, read and ask questions, then practise some more. Then when you know a bit more about how light works, have a go with the Hilite :)
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What he said^
 
Thanks guys. The hilite was too good a deal to pass up so that's why I have that.

The continuous lights won't go near the hilite. They're like a furnace! I'll maybe keep them as fancy lamps.

I'll be looking into some lower powered lights. Going to stick with a set of two though. Hopefully I'll be posting some pictures for critique in the upcoming months.

Seems like most of the well known brands will be good so I'll have a look and see what I can get my hands on.
 
draiman said:
Thanks guys. The hilite was too good a deal to pass up so that's why I have that.

The continuous lights won't go near the hilite. They're like a furnace! I'll maybe keep them as fancy lamps.

I'll be looking into some lower powered lights. Going to stick with a set of two though. Hopefully I'll be posting some pictures for critique in the upcoming months.

Seems like most of the well known brands will be good so I'll have a look and see what I can get my hands on.
Click to expand...
As Richard pointed out, you really need 2 lights in the hilite, so a 3 light system is a minimum really for that to be any use.
 
Phil V said:
As Richard pointed out, you really need 2 lights in the hilite, so a 3 light system is a minimum really for that to be any use.
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That's very true. Blame that on the sleep deprived eyes from a non sleeping baby!

I'll keep an eye out for a three head set up then. I'm assuming a pair of 200ws lights would be good for the hilite?
 
draiman said:
Hi guys. I'm looking at setting up my first studio set up and have bought a lastolite hilite with train and have a couple of continuous lights but was looking at upgrading to a pair of flash lights. Currently I have a 5D with Tamron 28-75 and 580exii.

I had been looking at lights with a budget in mind and see a lot of good things about Elinchrom and Bowens. The area I'm thinking of using is fairly large and with the idea that I may expand in future I was thinking 500w lights. Now I've been looking at the bowens esprit 500s and wondered if they're still up there today with there being newer models etc out. I'm aware that they aren't capable of mobile power but what other downsides might I come across in the future as I develop?

Also, if there are any other suggestions of lights then please jump in. Very grateful for any help received.
Click to expand...

I have been using Elinchrom. I chose them for two reasons. Quality of the strobes and the quality of the service I expected. I've not been let down by either. I deal with the The Flash Centre in Birmingham and they have been superb.
 
You might also consider the iLux Delta series lights from Photomart. Good prices on their kits. I bought some this year and they seem good quality.
 
Yes they'll be fine. Older ones come up in the classifieds and on ebay too.
 
Loads of suggestions, thanks. I'm not too fussed about second hand vs new providing they've been treated well. Better with the cash in my pocket and that means I'd have more play with modifiers as you said Phil.

Am I right in thinking I'd be better starting off with just a softbox and an umbrella and leave the extra stuff for later. This is all basically just me being curious - love learning new stuff so I really appreciate the advice given.
 
draiman said:
Loads of suggestions, thanks. I'm not too fussed about second hand vs new providing they've been treated well. Better with the cash in my pocket and that means I'd have more play with modifiers as you said Phil.

Am I right in thinking I'd be better starting off with just a softbox and an umbrella and leave the extra stuff for later. This is all basically just me being curious - love learning new stuff so I really appreciate the advice given.
Click to expand...

As mentioned above, my advice would be to start with white, silver and shoot-though brollies. They're very cheap and easy to put up, and give quite different effects. Then with the knowledge gained, choose a softbox or three. Right now you don't know what size to get; square, rectangular, octagonal; cheapy or easy push-up design.
 
HoppyUK said:
As mentioned above, my advice would be to start with white, silver and shoot-though brollies. They're very cheap and easy to put up, and give quite different effects. Then with the knowledge gained, choose a softbox or three. Right now you don't know what size to get; square, rectangular, octagonal; cheapy or easy push-up design.
Click to expand...

Sounds good to me. Plenty of stuff to mess around with there. Cheers
 
Just to say a big thank you to everyone here. Picked up a couple of bowens 200w lights and an umbrella and softbox. Can't wait to get a chance to use them all now.
I'll make sure I post any photos as soon as I can.
 
draiman said:
I had been looking at lights with a budget in mind and see a lot of good things about Elinchrom and Bowens. The area I'm thinking of using is fairly large and with the idea that I may expand in future I was thinking 500w lights. Now I've been looking at the bowens esprit 500s and wondered if they're still up there today with there being newer models etc out. I'm aware that they aren't capable of mobile power but what other downsides might I come across in the future as I develop?
Click to expand...

Off the top of my head there isn't a major difference between the older Bowens 500w heads and their newer ones, the only major thing that springs to mind is the latest models can take the Pulsar cards internally which is nice but given they're at least £50 a pop it doesn't make much sense vs a generic £10 trigger set. The Elinchrom heads have radio control built in (most models like BXRI, Style RX and D-lite IT onwards) which is why I assume they're more popular?

I do think the Bowens 500w heads are a good deal given they're well made, the replacement bulbs are cheap (although you're unlikely to replace them) and for whatever reason you can buy them more cheaply than alternatives second hand but there are plenty of bargains to be had, for example as far as I can tell the Elinchrom 400 BX/FX heads are as good or better than the newer D-lites yet they go for about 25% less second hand.

In your position I'd probably try and find 2 second hand 2 head kits and it's something like £200 and £400 for a 200w and 400w kit respectively.
 
The one thing that you need to be aware of re the older and newer Bowens units is whether they are travel pack compatible or not. Most of the newer ones are (they have the socket in the back to plug in a battery pack) however some of the the older ones did not always have this. I must admit, I couldn't tell you which models do and don't have this, but it is well worth checking up on if you intend to use them on location.
 
PeterF80 said:
The one thing that you need to be aware of re the older and newer Bowens units is whether they are travel pack compatible or not. Most of the newer ones are (they have the socket in the back to plug in a battery pack) however some of the the older ones did not always have this. I must admit, I couldn't tell you which models do and don't have this, but it is well worth checking up on if you intend to use them on location.
Click to expand...

I think it's Esprit 2 onwards (BW-3610).
 
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