first rant of 2011..Petrol prices!

Ozei said:
According to petrolprices.com, a litre of petrol costing 119.9p at the pump breaks down as follows:
  • Duty - 57.19p
  • VAT - 17.86p
  • Product - 39.85p
  • Retailer/delivery - 5p
So - 62.6% goes in duty & vat (a total rip-off), 33.2% is the actual cost of the fuel, and 4.2% goes to the retailer.

http://www.petrolprices.com/price-of-petrol.html
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When i see the amount of Tax in the breakdown there, i wonder why we are being charged 'Road Tax' £110 6mths / £200 12mths.
It's supposed(used to be)to go back into the maintenance like re-tarmaccing not cheap pot hole filling like we get now and councils have to use their budget because the Labour government took this funding away !

On another note: you used to see these tarmac laying machines up and down the country in abundance, now you don't = even more jobs lost yet to another industry.
 
is the vat applied AFTER the duty? is that not a total cheek??? taxed on the tax...
 
matty said:
is the vat applied AFTER the duty? is that not a total cheek??? taxed on the tax...
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Yes it is and to add insult to injury as another poster added the money you use to pay for it has been already taxed :thumbsdown:
 
Graham00 said:
When i see the amount of Tax in the breakdown there, i wonder why we are being charged 'Road Tax' £110 6mths / £200 12mths.
It's supposed(used to be)to go back into the maintenance like re-tarmaccing not cheap pot hole filling like we get now and councils have to use their budget because the Labour government took this funding away !
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Road Tax was abolished in 1937. What you pay is Vehicle Excise Duty, however low emissions vehicles are exempt from that, and no one is stopping people getting one of those.
 
matty said:
i used to get 50mpg from my focus, but age means i now only get 40 - 45mpg, which is costly when you do 80 miles per day. im happy to pay a little extra, but its now 1.30 per gallon, the farmers and truckers were out at less than £ per gallon, they got a deal, and now dont care, so those of us who do a lot of miles, either through employment or through living in the country, are the ones that suffer most. £60 a week on diesel soon, so I could change jobs, i'd need to find one at pays me more than £60 less than I earn now to make that work, or i could move, but cant afford to move, so thats out, or I could bend over and take it, with no lube
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Assuming that's a diesel, the egr valve and the inlet manifold could probably do with a good clean. Age shouldn't really matter if it's well maintained.
 
15mpg no longer seems like a good idea :(
 
wack61 said:
I always find it amazing that 100s of thousands of EU citizens can come here and find work while there are 2.5 million out of work, get the lazy *******s off their arses and there'd be no jobs for anyone so they wouldn't come, more tax generated and less benefits paid out.
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You do realise this is reciprocal? We can all go over to their EU countries to find work.

Except of course, being British we won't speak the native language so will be unemployable.
 
neil_g said:
it is if you want to do any serious milage.. have you tried driving something in the low tax bands any sort of distance? painful.
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I think part of the problem is that too many people are happy to drive huge distances on a regular basis. One of my work colleagues has an hour long commute each way - this is just crazyness!
 
boliston said:
I think part of the problem is that too many people are happy to drive huge distances on a regular basis. One of my work colleagues has an hour long commute each way - this is just crazyness!
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my commute is 40 mins each way, but i am very high up in the company, if i could move, i would!
 
boliston said:
I think part of the problem is that too many people are happy to drive huge distances on a regular basis. One of my work colleagues has an hour long commute each way - this is just crazyness!
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i live 36 miles from work. takes about 1-1.5 hours traffic depending.

do you think ive not looked at jobs closer?
 
neil_g said:
i live 36 miles from work. takes about 1-1.5 hours traffic depending.

do you think ive not looked at jobs closer?
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you could move closer to work..... oh hang on no the housing market is in tatters:lol:

i read somewhere that the average commute is about an hour
 
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Graham00 said:
Yes it is and to add insult to injury as another poster added the money you use to pay for it has been already taxed :thumbsdown:
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That applies to just about everything you buy, one way or another. Add in the NI and the myriad other taxes, duties and licence fees you're expected to pay. Buy a second home at your own risk, pay for out from income that has already been taxed, sell it for a decent profit and cough up the CGT. It's obscene.

Most of us have to live within our income, and borrowing is governed by income too. The State simply increases its income by telling its employers how much more they will have to pay.

Yes I know, that's simplistic, but it's also true.
 
boliston said:
I think part of the problem is that too many people are happy to drive huge distances on a regular basis. One of my work colleagues has an hour long commute each way - this is just crazyness!
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You have to take what you can get, work is not exactly plentiful is it? My wife got forced to move work location, going from travelling 15 mins each way to now doing an hour each way. She hates it, but if she didn't do it she would be unemployed. Other alternative mentioned is buying a new car, which we cannot afford at present. So basically we are being screwed more every time the price goes up. Oh add to this her pay being frozen for 3 years as she works for the government. Things like this affect a lot of people!

Yet we spent untold millions having the fireworks last night, every bang was to me peoples jobs, and frontline services going up in smoke. Looking to cut money, start with things such as this.

Trying to attract business to locate here when the fuel prices as they are is a non starter. Haulage businesses are relocating to mainland Europe to save costs. Businesses will not accept the costs of locating here, we as a country and becoming uneconomical as a location to do business.

I can see there being a lot of action this year in terms of strikes etc. I think the disruption and rioting on the levels of the 80's is set to make a return. There is only so much people will stand before they en masse stand up and be counted.
 
boliston said:
I think part of the problem is that too many people are happy to drive huge distances on a regular basis. One of my work colleagues has an hour long commute each way - this is just crazyness!
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Not so much a case of happy to, but rather need to. These days we just have to go where the work is.
 
Moving to be closer to work is often expensive and can be pointless. Unless you have job security it's going to cost you a lot more than fuel. It is also impractical for those with children or with partners that work elsewhere too. Like it or not the old fashioned day of woman at home while man is at work a few minutes away by public transport or shank's pony are long gone. The reality is in couples both partners need to work to make ends meet so one or both of them will have to commute.

I'm sure the vast majority of people would take a job closer to home if it existed and paid a similar amount to what they could earn further afield. Most don't choose long commutes, it just happens that way. You can plan all you like to live where you work but redundancy or relocation can happen at any time.
 
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In some ways I think the European housing model works well as renting is considered the norm rather than second best to home ownership (a British obsession).

This means that people can easily move nearer their work rather than having to go through the stressful process of selling and buying a property.

I guess I'm fortunate in having a 10 minute cycle commute as the alternative is a 25 minute commute through traffic jams in the car which I hate and avoid if possible.
 
boliston said:
In some ways I think the European housing model works well as renting is considered the norm rather than second best to home ownership (a British obsession).

This means that people can easily move nearer their work rather than having to go through the stressful process of selling and buying a property.

I guess I'm fortunate in having a 10 minute cycle commute as the alternative is a 25 minute commute through traffic jams in the car which I hate and avoid if possible.
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easy? have you seen the paperwork and fees involved in renting recently?
 
matty said:
the farmers and truckers were out at less than £ per gallon, they got a deal, and now dont care,
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Farmers got a deal ?
whilst you are moaning about a overall rise of about 10-15% in the last 6 months on derv, I have had a rise of around 60% in the cost of red diesel, so the removal of tractor tax at £25 per year as part of the so called deal really is a bit of a joke when my bulk tank costs over £500 more per fill than it did 6 months ago.
 
scraggs said:
Farmers got a deal ?
whilst you are moaning about a overall rise of about 10-15% in the last 6 months on derv, I have had a rise of around 60% in the cost of red diesel, so the removal of tractor tax at £25 per year as part of the so called deal really is a bit of a joke when my bulk tank costs over £500 more per fill than it did 6 months ago.
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Why is there no murmuring and threats to blockade anymore then? The FTA and the farmers were all over the costs back then, but now nothing?
 
wack61 said:
Do you mean economic migrants from outside of the EU, that figure must be tiny compared to the EU citizens that are allowed to come here by law.

I always find it amazing that 100s of thousands of EU citizens can come here and find work while there are 2.5 million out of work, get the lazy *******s off their arses and there'd be no jobs for anyone so they wouldn't come, more tax generated and less benefits paid out.

We're too soft in this country, I don't want to work so i'll spit 8 kids out instead
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To a certain extent yes - some migrant workers are obviously here to work: Polish field-workers for example get paid more in the UK than they do here in Germany, so it makes sense for them to go to the UK at harvest times in order to earn more money. Poland also has a certain affinity for the UK that it doesn't have for Germany - funny old thing that...

However other immigrants making their way to the UK have no intention of working: are coming here specifically to target the benefits system and usually attempt to either enter the country illegally, or if their legal attempts to be allowed to stay in the UK after a visitor's Visa expires fail, stay in the UK illegally.

The rise in fuel duty bugs me too: we also pay an extortionate amount here in Germany: 82% tax on fuel currently (most filling-stations display the percentage on the pump itself).
However, since I choose to drive a gas-guzzling monster V8 for the fun of it, I only have myself to blame. I have a 'slightly' more economical car (32mpg on a careful motorway run) for everyday use, but I like driving and I particularly like driving fast.
The more I drive, the more I pay. Seems fair enough to me.

So far this winter has cost European governments millions+ in additional costs - more gritting, more disruption to services, lost revenue etc and it's only January - we could be in for another two months of this if we're not lucky. And wait til you see the additional damage all the cold weather has done to the road surfaces - that all has to be fixed this year.
That money doesn't just come out of thin air - we get to pay for this if we want our standard of living to remain the same.

The Govt has to rake it in from somewhere...
 
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VED at £425, approx 22mpg but I love her, pity the condition of the roads is *****, the motorist is an easy target for raising funds. It's time the way the country spends money was looked at, foreign aid, gold plated government pensions, mp's expenses, quangoes, benefits, the list is almost endless. Death and taxes, life's certainties.
 
How about the govt rake it in from Vodafone and other tax dodgers instead?? There are plenty of tax loopholes that could be closed down so that the rest of us wouldn't be robbed blind.
 
srichards said:
How about the govt rake it in from Vodafone and other tax dodgers instead?? There are plenty of tax loopholes that could be closed down so that the rest of us wouldn't be robbed blind.
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Probably because Vodafone and other big corporates, and high nett worth individuals, can afford the best legal representation and tax accountants. You and I can't. We just have suck it up or break the law and face prosecution.

Of course, the big corporates have leverage too. Don't push us too far, or we'll just reincorporate in a more tax friendly jurisdiction, and you won't get any more tax out of us at all.
 
You have the answer in your hands. Get a green car, Mine is 4 seater and have just paid my road fund tax. You guessed it, £20. I joked with the girl in the post office, told her it`s free next year. Funny thing is I do not use it much Bus, train, boat all free pass. If I took the car to town, I would have to pay for parking.
 
Or get a classic car. Tax exempt if pre 1973 and insurance is often 100 ish pa :)
 
MartynK said:
Probably because Vodafone and other big corporates, and high nett worth individuals, can afford the best legal representation and tax accountants. You and I can't. We just have suck it up or break the law and face prosecution.

Of course, the big corporates have leverage too. Don't push us too far, or we'll just reincorporate in a more tax friendly jurisdiction, and you won't get any more tax out of us at all.
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This is what bugs me. HMRC negotiate with big companies and ask them how much they'd like to pay. WTF?! If they've paid so much profit then they should pay their fair share. What if everyone suddenly decided they didn't feel like paying and told HMRC to stuff it?

Could be fun if all vodafone users stopped paying the bills out of protest. They wouldn't be able to chase all of them with debt collectors :naughty:
 
matty said:
Why is there no murmuring and threats to blockade anymore then? The FTA and the farmers were all over the costs back then, but now nothing?
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I only wish I knew the answer to that one :shrug:
As far as i'm aware the government changed the laws on protests at fuel depots after the 2000 protests, anyone blocking a depot can be removed as can vehicles parked outside.
 
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bummer. Something needs to be done, I wrote to my MP but i suspect Chocolate and Fireguard...
 
classcams said:
You have the answer in your hands. Get a green car, Mine is 4 seater and have just paid my road fund tax.
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the main issue with that is that I bought a car just prior to the huge increases in VED, its not economical with regards to the current crop of eco cars and whilst its less than 6 years old its not worth enough to sell and afford anything 'green' so im over a barrel unless I stick myself with another load of car finance for the next X years.

thats the problem, the government are telling us to get an economical car, but thats only of any use to people who have the money to buy a new car, everyone who has to buy second hand is effectively stuck buying cars with high VED and low MPG!

Its not a case of getting a new car. its a case of being able to afford it, what with the state of companies wage cutbacks and the increase in the cost of living alot of people are stuck!
 
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Moving forward, wonder what will happen when we make the move from petrol to electric/helium/etc cars, the revenue lost by the gov will be massive.
Will they tax electricity different to the home, separate charging/metering points with VAT at 45% instead of the usual 5%?
 
Seems to be no correlation between the cost of raw materials and pump price. (other than both gone up)

Dec 08 Brent Crude $36.38 per barrel. Litre of Shell Diesel £0.979
Dec 09 "" $72.91 per barrel "" £1.129
Dec 10 "" $91.40 per barrel "" £1.279

Incidentally a "barrel" of crude is 42 Gallons and typically, you'd get about 19.5 gallons of petrol from a barrel and about 9 gallons of diesel plus a load of other stuff!

I know the likes of BP / Shell etc do a lot more than make Petrol and Diesel but when once again they make record profits of several £Bn it does get a tad annoying.

However what drives the greed for higher profits? Shareholders.

Pretty glad i switched to an oil burner 2 and a bit years ago, 50-60% more mpg
 
classcams said:
You have the answer in your hands. Get a green car, Mine is 4 seater and have just paid my road fund tax. You guessed it, £20. I joked with the girl in the post office, told her it`s free next year. Funny thing is I do not use it much Bus, train, boat all free pass. If I took the car to town, I would have to pay for parking.
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Why do people say this. Several people cannot afford them! I wish I could, but am stuck with what I have. This is the problem, it doesn't affect those who can afford to change cars, or pay for the cost easily for their second cars, but the average person is the one left shafted again.

How do we compare with German prices Rob?
 
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Edtog said:
Moving forward, wonder what will happen when we make the move from petrol to electric/helium/etc cars, the revenue lost by the gov will be massive.
Will they tax electricity different to the home, separate charging/metering points with VAT at 45% instead of the usual 5%?
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I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. If someone found a way to sell good/reliable cars at a profit for, say, £500 with a running cost of £001/mile, the state would either ban them on the grounds of some spurious safety concern, or find a way to recover their tax loss.
 
We're all in this mess because of the "morons" we call "MP's" and the @ankers, but what really gets me is all these companies bragging how many millions/billions of profit they make ,companies like the Bp's of this world ,yeh they caused a catastrophic disaster with the infamous oil leak but on the other hand they make enough "profit" to more than cover costs and some ,hence we're now paying for it .It boils my blood no end
 
neil_g said:
just seen on the news train prices are set to rise by 6% too..
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Yep, from today. Sue renewed hers yesterday so got it at last year's price. When we moved here 10 years ago, her annual season ticket was £2,500. Today it went up to £4,500!!! an 80% increase in 10 years! :bang:
 
yep everything is spiralling out of control.......... and soon set to explode........

The majority of us have pensions , lots of pension pots have short falls, so the fund managers are screaming for more profits to increase the net worth of the pension pot - a lot of shares in the oil and gas sector is held by pension funds rather than private indivduals, so in order to appease the shareholders (and for the execs to get a nice healty bonus) drive the profit up..........

you can either

a) reduce overheads and costs to increase efficiency

or

b) increase the end market price knowing it's an essential commodity to most of the population.

The only way I can see any form of protest happening (and this is where the British public don't come together) would be not to have a fuel blckade per se, but to target one of the big players..... lets say BP for arguments sake.

If from tomorrow morning, no one bought any BP fuel for x period of time, BP would start to drop their prices in order to regain some market share (and appease the shareholders)

Whilst everyone just accepts things and get on with it, there is no incentive for the oil companies to do anything other than increase prices.

Diesel was at a all time high a few years back when crude was nudging £140 a barrel, since then the price of oil has halved (and now rising again) - ok there was a slight drop in fuel price Oct 08 to Oct 09........ but not compared with the fall in raw material price.
 
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