First ND filter Help

vickylou

vickylou

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Vicky
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I am looking to purchase my first 72mm ND filter to use for landscapes, moving water and outdoors portrais in bright sunlight so that I can use faster apertures and speedlite without HSS. My budget is limited I was considering ND8, which do you think would be useful to start with. I cannot afford HOYA at the moment so looking for something inexpensive but not at the expense of strong colour cast, large degrade in IQ.

Does anyone have any experience with Neewer filter? How do the varying grade ND filters perform?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Compact-7...es_CameraLensesFilters_JN&hash=item589256d9ba

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/72mm-Vari...es_CameraLensesFilters_JN&hash=item2ebeb06500


http://www.amazon.co.uk/NEEWER-Neut...1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1362646114&sr=1-1
Or should I look for a second hand hoya/hama etc

Are threaded the best? it is for the Tamron 17-50 VC

I found this video on the cheap neewer filter. It looks as though I would be limited at 17mm but nearer to 50mm I would be able to use the whole gradient. it looks as though vignetting is always going to be a problem.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=jQ87WIn9Ulo

Would I be better of getting a second hand filter ie a ND8 for portraits and a ND 400/1000 for moving clouds/water?

Thank you.
 
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Hi,

I own this filter and as long as you use it in the lower range (i.e. up to ca. 3 stops) its fine. After that you start to get uneven exposure across the image.

I would suggest buying two seperate ND filter.
 
for my uses which grades do you recommend? Which is the lowest grade for moving water and clouds?
 
I bought a Neewer ND8 filter, however I really didn't like it it gave a horrible magenta colour cast. So i ditched it and bought a Hoya which is much much better. I was also on a budget and thought that the filter would be okay but it just goes to show that you pay for quality.
 
donkey_kong said:
I bought a Neewer ND8 filter, however I really didn't like it it gave a horrible magenta colour cast. So i ditched it and bought a Hoya which is much much better. I was also on a budget and thought that the filter would be okay but it just goes to show that you pay for quality.
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Can you correct the colour cast in PP?
 
Colour casts can be corrected but a lot of people try to get it right in camera.

I had one of the cheap vario ND filters, and yes it did its job of showing me that I was interested in the results that could be obtained.

But as someone mentioned earlier you can get uneven casts and they are harder to PP.

I've saved up and am just investing in some Lee filters - ok they are dear, but hopefully they will last a long time, I spent a lot of money on my lenses so why spoil the end result photos by penny pinching now at the end ?
 
I have found a second hand cokin system, would this be a good way to go and filters for this are £16.99.
 
I'd stay away from Variable NDs, the good ones are super expensive, and the ones you linked would be cheap for any filter.

I've just bought a Haida ND8 for rig shots but will be trying it on other things, managed to find it for £16 but a lot of places sell it for around £40, might be fake, might not be.
 
vickylou said:
Can you correct the colour cast in PP?
Click to expand...

More easily done if shooting in RAW (then alter white balance, etc in your RAW converter of choice). I imagine a world of pain when trying to correct a colour cast in a jpg file.
 
vickylou said:
I am looking to purchase my first 72mm ND filter to use for landscapes, moving water and outdoors portrais in bright sunlight so that I can use faster apertures and speedlite without HSS. My budget is limited I was considering ND8, which do you think would be useful to start with. I cannot afford HOYA at the moment so looking for something inexpensive but not at the expense of strong colour cast, large degrade in IQ.

Does anyone have any experience with Neewer filter? How do the varying grade ND filters perform?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Compact-7...es_CameraLensesFilters_JN&hash=item589256d9ba

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/72mm-Vari...es_CameraLensesFilters_JN&hash=item2ebeb06500


http://www.amazon.co.uk/NEEWER-Neut...1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1362646114&sr=1-1
Or should I look for a second hand hoya/hama etc

Are threaded the best? it is for the Tamron 17-50 VC

I found this video on the cheap neewer filter. It looks as though I would be limited at 17mm but nearer to 50mm I would be able to use the whole gradient. it looks as though vignetting is always going to be a problem.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=jQ87WIn9Ulo

Would I be better of getting a second hand filter ie a ND8 for portraits and a ND 400/1000 for moving clouds/water?

Thank you.
Click to expand...

Yes, you need two quite different filters for what you want to do.

Avoid the vari-ND types if you want to use anything like a wide-angle or you will get a dark cross appearing over the image at higher densities. Even the most expensive ones do this.

If you go the square slot-in route, the darker ND filter must be light-sealed to the lens. It should have a foam gasket on one side.
 
Thank you for your help. Where did you find the ND8 Haida? I am not sure what way to go as the max Cokin do is ND8 and they do not recommend doubling up.
 
I always shoot in raw and convert either in dpp or I have the basic capture one. For a more expensive filter I could only afford one to need a happy medium I could use for both uses.
 
vickylou said:
Thank you for your help. Where did you find the ND8 Haida? I am not sure what way to go as the max Cokin do is ND8 and they do not recommend doubling up.
Click to expand...

I'd get two screw-in filters. Haida from CameraGearUK (ebay or Amazon) or Premier-Ink. There's a long thread here on the Haida ten-stop NDs, but to cut to the chase, they're good, and certainly best value.
 
So do you recommend a 3 stop and a 10 stop. The 10 will be very long exposures though?
 
Would a nd4 get me started.
 
As an example....if without the filter the shutter speed would be 1/250 with a 3 stop filter it would reduce it to 1/30 and with a 10 stop to a 4 second exposure (approx) so if you want to freeze movement in the water you'd need a 10 stop at least or shoot at dusk when the light is low to use a lower stop filter
 
vickylou said:
So do you recommend a 3 stop and a 10 stop. The 10 will be very long exposures though?
Click to expand...

For getting the shutter speed down below x-sync, I'd suggest two or three stops. That's ND4 or 8, sometimes expressed as 0.6 and 0.9. You need what you need, depending on the light and everything else, but with that technique anything much darker makes the viewfinder quite dim and harder to work with.

Ten stops is a lot of neutral density (also expressed as ND1000 or 3.0) and again it depends on the light, the speed of whatever the subject is, and the effect you want. Eg, a fast running stream or waterfall gets pretty soft and milky at maybe 1/4sec or so, certainly way less time than smoothing out waves that might need a couple of waves and several whole seconds.

Probably three stops and ten stops is a good place to start, and you can usually moderate the exposure with aperture and ISO to suit. Folks that do these kinds of things a lot will most likely have two, three and four stops to hand for flash, and six and ten stops for the blurry water etc, so they can better optimise other settings.

Edit: Vicky, to get started, suggest get the Haida MkII ten stopper and see how you get on. You can hardly go wrong with that for not too much money, and I know you could sell it again on here in seconds. That filter will allow you to do things that are not possible any other way, whereas using ND filters for flash is something you can usally get around by using your 430EX's high speed sync feature (which is why it was invented ;)). ND's for flash is usually reserved for use with big studio-type heads outdoors that don't have the HSS option.

Edit2: If you're keen on getting into flash, I highly recommend that you do because it opens up a new new aspect to photography that is more creatively rewarding than just about anything else. With your Tamron 60mm f/2, I see where you're coming from with HSS :D Get this book, Speedliter's Handbook by Sly Arena http://www.amazon.co.uk/Speedliters...=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1362763752&sr=1-1 Prolly the best £18 you'll spend all year :thumbs:
 
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Best thing to do is get a nd4 and go from there, if it's not up to scratch go a bit higher, like above depends what you want the water to look like, i use a nd4 at f16 in bright sunshine and get good results.
 
Thank you for your help. I got the syl arena book for my birthday and have started using flash off camera. I currently trigger with my 60d built in flash which does not have HSS function hence the ND until I can afford some triggers probably yn633C's I was looking at a second speedlite in the future.

I've seen a used 10 stop Haida but not sure how much it will go for. I was looking at a 10 stop for the 17-50 and a 3 stop for the 60mm f2.
 
Or should I buy the biggest filter size and get an adapter for the 60mm which is only 55mm can you usr adapters on ND's?
 
vickylou said:
Thank you for your help. I got the syl arena book for my birthday and have started using flash off camera. I currently trigger with my 60d built in flash which does not have HSS function hence the ND until I can afford some triggers probably yn633C's I was looking at a second speedlite in the future.

I've seen a used 10 stop Haida but not sure how much it will go for. I was looking at a 10 stop for the 17-50 and a 3 stop for the 60mm f2.
Click to expand...

Oh right, then you're ahead already :) I think you mean the YN 622 triggers (typo?) and that is the smart way to go these days. Your camera's pop-up flash not only doesn't do remote HSS, but it will struggle in sunshine as the light-coded signals tend to get washed out by the bright daylight. Consider YN 568 gun to go with the 622, good and affordable combo.

vickylou said:
Or should I buy the biggest filter size and get an adapter for the 60mm which is only 55mm can you usr adapters on ND's?
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Yes, that would work fine. Not so neat, and you can't then fit the lens hood. In practise though, you'd probably only use the ten stopper on the 17-50 and the three stops on the 60. Personal thing.
 
Where did you purchse your Haida ND8 from?
 
Thank you all for your help this site is invaluable and friendly. Yep I meant 622c that's what happens when I use my phone to type :)
 
Out of interest has anyone used kood ND's?
 
Got mine from eBay, seller called CGUK, mine was 77mm for £16, arrived 2 days after ordering, I'd imagine it would arrive next day if ordered early.
 
I looked at this seller but it is £42 for a 72mm ND1000 which I can't afford. The ND400 looks only to be a hoya filter which I can't afford. What about ND64 can you smooth waves with this and capture cloud movement?
 
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premier ink have the ND64 but not much price difference than the ND1000
 
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vickylou said:
I looked at this seller but it is £42 for a 72mm ND1000 which I can't afford. The ND400 looks only to be a hoya filter which I can't afford. What about ND64 can you smooth waves with this and capture cloud movement?
Click to expand...

You need to work it out Vicky, it depends. ND64 is six stops (2,4,8,16,32,64=6) so that would drop a 1/250sec normal daylight shutter speed down to 1/4sec.

For waves, you need several seconds to make them properly smooth and streaky clouds a second or two, depending on the wind speed. So, unless the daylight is really quite low, you'd need to use a high f/number which is not ideal but would get you somewhere close.

On the other hand, it's mother's day :)
 
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Thank you. How much would you pay for a used non pro ii version?
 
Is £20 to much to pay for the non pro ii version used? Its only I'm going away Fri or I would wait for a better deal.
 
vickylou said:
Is £20 to much to pay for the non pro ii version used? Its only I'm going away Fri or I would wait for a better deal.
Click to expand...

Half price sounds very fair.
 
Thank you. It was only that the pro ii very 72mm is £34.99 on premier ink but my size is out of stock so I guess the non pro ii is about £30.

Oh well I was out bid, I am rubbish at flea bay. Fingers crossed someone sells one on here :)
 
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Ive also seen a used Hoya HMC ND400 how does this compare to the Haida?
 
vickylou said:
Ive also seen a used Hoya HMC ND400 how does this compare to the Haida?
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Very good filter, multi-coated and usually more expesnive than the Haidas. ND400 is a stop or so lighter than ten stops, I measured it at 8.6. Personally, I find that a bit of an advantage most of the time - ten stops is a lot, and some of those are nearer 11 in practise.

Hoya has a very light green cast, but nothing to worry about - they all have a slight cast of some sort. Get it if the price is right.
 
Digitalize said:
My Haida ND8 has no cast at all, can't see any compared to an image without a filter
Click to expand...

Haida ProII multi-coated is the most neutral extreme ND filter I've tried, but still has a very slight cast. The cast tends to vary slighly depending on how much infrared light there is, how the filter copes with that and also how much IR is filtered by the lens and camera sensor. They can also vary a little batch to batch on both colour and density.

I measured the ProII at close to 11 stops, whereas the uncoated version was around 10.3 stops with a light purple-blue cast. A bit of a cast is not really a problem though, as you always need to do a bit of post processing, so long as you can then get it to neutral. The only extreme ND I wouldn't recommend is the Hitech Pro-Stop made from dyed resin that has IR issues. I believe they have a new IR-improved version that should be better (if it's made of glass) but I've not tried it.
 
Hi,
My first post here, been looking at Haida filters, is keen on vari ND pro II slim, anyone has good results with it? I am using their ND it's good but not sure about VND compared to others.

Cheers
 
vickylou said:
So do you recommend a 3 stop and a 10 stop. The 10 will be very long exposures though?
Click to expand...

Hi vickylou,

I think 3 (x8) , 6 (x64) , 10 (x1000) stops would be very useful for landscape photography.
3 stops is also useful for using bright primes during daytime as well as night, twilight photography.
6 stops, a short period of twilight to sunrise/sunset to twilight. This is particularly useful as sometimes 10 stops is too strong and often not, I may forget to bring the bulb timer...
10 stops for much during sunset.

It also really depends what aperture/speed that you want to achieve and that usually depends on situation. I usually try to use the sweet spot of the lens oruse at aperture before diffraction sets in (F8 for micro four thirds which I use) and then see from the speed that I want to achieve the effect.

Hope that helps.
 
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