First go at developing 35mm B/W... Best Chemicals to start with?

ChrisR said:
I've heard this before, but no idea how to achieve it. I tried gripping the film by one corner, but wasn't surprised that it still hung pretty much straight, given there's a weight at the bottom.
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I haven't developed 35mm film for years, but I just achieved a slope by using a standard clip at the top, suspended from a washing line over the bath, a weighted clip at the bottom and - the essential step - a length of thin string threaded through a sprocket hole at the bottom of the film and attached at the side to a conventient object (in my case, a sponge bag on the the shelf at the end of the bath) such that it was about horizontal. I don't think it will work if you don't use the sprocket hole, as it will just tend to raise the bottom of the film.
 
One more suggestion. Keep a log book or notebook the first fifty or so films. I did. It was hilarious how many cock ups that I made, for such a simple process. Whenever I did make a mistake, I saw it as a lesson learned. I learned for example, that I don't like C41 film processing. I learned more than anything, to keep it stupid simple, and to evolve a method that stops you putting the wrong chems in the wrong bottle, or throwing away good stocks. I keep all of my b/w film developing kit in a big plastic bucket ( that came with a mop). I fill it with water at roughly 20C, chuck in my sealed bottles of fix and stop in order to stabilise their temperatures, while I load the film in my trusty film changing bag. The water not only stabilises the temperature of the chems, I then use it up as rinse water.

As has often been said here - a bathroom or shower room after use, makes a great low dust drying area.
 
Thanks for all of this guys, really helpful info!

Re the Hypo clear. Thats interesting. We do have VERY hard water up here, so maybe that is the reason. i also noticed the Massive Dev app has a time for the Hypo stage?!
 
brucegill said:
Thanks for all of this guys, really helpful info!

Re the Hypo clear. Thats interesting. We do have VERY hard water up here, so maybe that is the reason. i also noticed the Massive Dev app has a time for the Hypo stage?!
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I've only very recently downloaded the Massive Dev app! Early excursions with smart phones and wet processing were not very successful. Touch screens don't like wet fingers. I've used the app only very recently. I do not use a hypo. Anyway, I find that I only really need to time the developer and fix., so at that point, I start to ignore the app. I follow fix with an extended Ilford rinse method. After that, I give a final rinse with a small squirt of Ilford wetting agent. I have used fairy liquid instead, but on results and hard water, I decided for myself that wetting agent was a worthy buy. Others will disagree.
 
I don't know of any reason that hard (or soft) water would make any real difference that requires the use of a hypo clearing agent. Hard water would suggest the need for a wetting agent, since (unboiled) hard water will contain deposits that can be left on the film. Variation in hardness of water is the reason behind a nunber of developer additives, there simply to ensure that the developer action will be consistent no matter what you mix it with. That said, some developers are better made up with distilled or purified water.

I used to live in a soft water area, now I'm where the water is hard as bricks and I always use a wetting agent. I also prefer making up chemicals with distilled water, and using that for the final rinse.

I have an idea at the back of my mind that sea water is actually more effective at washing than tap water, but that really is at the very back of my mind! And it may come from a time before beaches were being closed because of sewage hazard (as has happened recently near here (Sussex)).

Edit for a couple of typos.
 
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I'm kind of ambivalent towards wetting agents. They're so strong that washing them out of your tanks and jugs is a pain in the whatsits. I'm still using mine but when it's finished I think I'll go back to fairy.
 
steveo_mcg said:
I'm kind of ambivalent towards wetting agents. They're so strong that washing them out of your tanks and jugs is a pain in the whatsits. I'm still using mine but when it's finished I think I'll go back to fairy.
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How much do you add? I don't find it a problem (1 drop per litre)
 
Ignore. Managed to quote rather than edit....
 
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id recommend using filtered water or similer to make up the chemicals, and final wash

timer wise i got a stop watch app and i just hit start and leave it going normaly, the screen stays on so i just make a mental note of the time as i begin the later stages, not sure if u can over fix a negative?
 
pingu666 said:
id recommend using filtered water or similer to make up the chemicals, and final wash

timer wise i got a stop watch app and i just hit start and leave it going normaly, the screen stays on so i just make a mental note of the time as i begin the later stages, not sure if u can over fix a negative?
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I use a mechanical Smith's timer, of the type that used to be common in labs but hasn't (as far as I know) been made for years. One lever to reset the time to zero, another to start/stop, so one swift finger movement resets the time for stop and fix.

You can both under and over fix a film. Under, and you haven't got rid of all the halides that will eventually darken ; over and you start to remove the developed silver and eat away at the image. It's the same with prints - if you leave a print in the fixer long enough, you can see the etching (I have done this....).
 
I've never used a wetting agent, but I've often thought about it. I use filtered water for a final rinse and then hang the film to dry, and I've never had any problems at all with deposits on the film. Does a wetting agent make the film dry faster if it spreads the water over the surface? If so then I might invest as I hate waiting for those last few drops on the film to disappear before I can scan!

StephenM said:
I use a mechanical Smith's timer, of the type that used to be common in labs but hasn't (as far as I know) been made for years. One lever to reset the time to zero, another to start/stop, so one swift finger movement resets the time for stop and fix.

You can both under and over fix a film. Under, and you haven't got rid of all the halides that will eventually darken ; over and you start to remove the developed silver and eat away at the image. It's the same with prints - if you leave a print in the fixer long enough, you can see the etching (I have done this....).
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I remember you telling me this in one of my previous threads asking for help (I can't remember which one; there have been many :D ), if I remember correctly didn't you say that you have to over fix by quite a lot to make a difference? I've never been that accurate with my fixing (too eager to see the photos to wait!), and I usually do a test on a piece of scrap film and then the actual fix time is somewhere between double that time and five minutes or so
 
A wetting agent should reduce the water drops, and therefore make the film dry faster. I usually leave them overnight to dry if processed in the afternoon or evening as they can be slightly tacky even when otherwise dry looking. If possible though, I'll bag them if I can before going to bed.

When I started, the rule was to fix for double the clearing time; some modern films (not ones I use - I think it's TMax and that type) require triple the clearing time. One trick (if you're not the nervous type) is to recall that developer doesn't act instantly, and it does take a time before it starts to blacken film; and assuming an alkaline developer, an acid stop bath will stop it before it has time to do anything. It follows from this that you can remove the lid from the tank to pour away the developer and pour in the stop, and leave it off for the rest of the processing. It makes agitation easier and pouring faster; and you can see how long the clearing time is.

This may not be safe with all developers and all films; all I can say is that the theory is sound, and it workls in practice for me with Rodinal and a stop bath using Acros and FP4. I use a CombiPlan tank for processing my 5x4 film, and the fill/draining times are slow (30 secs or so) compared to Paterson tanks; hence my use of quick drain by removing the lid.

On overfixing, it was many years ago that I overfixed a print, but I think it was about 20 minutes to half an hour in a rapid fixer (normal time about 2 minutes).
 
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Thanks guys... Current shopping list at the nearest place I can find (RK Photographic)

Ilford ID11 1L Mono Powder Chemical - Like the finer grain from Rodinal, and seems a industry standard. happy to mix it up...

ILFORD ILFOSTOP Size: 500 ml - Pretty cheap

Fotospeed Odourless Fixer FX30 1L - again, pretty cheap
ILFORD ILFOTOL WETTING AGENT 1L - never going to use all of this!
Ilford Washaid 1 litre - Still undecided on this Hypo clear stuff...

I have a tank, changing bag, film clips, measuring jugs, 20ml syringe, Thermometer, timers, Massive Dev app, Distilled water, Water filter tank/jug, 1lt containers x3, film leader retriever.... think thats it!

Anyone have any thoughts, recommendations etc please let me know :)

One other question, retrieve the leader or pop the canister open? After practising in the bag the last few nights I thought retrieving the leader would be an easier way to go? I'm assuming you can retrieve the leader in the light, and trim it off before going in the bag?

Thanks again everyone, this thread has been a great help.
 
brucegill said:
One other question, retrieve the leader or pop the canister open? After practising in the bag the last few nights I thought retrieving the leader would be an easier way to go? I'm assuming you can retrieve the leader in the light, and trim it off before going in the bag?
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Ooooor even better, don't wind it back quite all the way and the leader will be poking out when you remove the roll from the camera :) Popping the can open to take the film out is a pain in my opinion, as then you have to fight a roll of film that wants to unravel whilst you feed it onto the spool. Having the leader poking out means you can feed the end on, pull the canister a bit to get more film out, feed a bit more on, pull the canister a bit etc etc. I haven't used a leader retriever because I wind back gently until I can feel the film pop off the sprocket, but if your camera auto rewinds the whole roll fully then I'd say get a retriever (not the canine kind)

Edit for bad spellingz :(
 
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Carl Hall said:
Ooooor even better, don't wind it back quite all the way and the leader will be poking out when you remove the roll from the camera :) Popping the can open to take the film out is a pain in my opinion, as then you have to fight a roll of film that wants to unravel whilst you feed it onto the spool. Having the leader poking out means you can feed the end on, pull the cannister a bit to get more film out, feed a bit more on, pull the cannister a bit etc etc. I haven't used a leader retriever because I wind back gently until I can feel the film pop off the sprocket, but if your camera auto rewinds the whole roll fully then I'd say get a retriever (not the canine kind)
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Thanks Carl. I tried that the first roll and the winder suddenly spun round as I let it go... I'm going to give it another go on this roll but can't feel it very well to be honest.
 
brucegill said:
Thanks Carl. I tried that the first roll and the winder suddenly spun round as I let it go... I'm going to give it another go on this roll but can't feel it very well to be honest.
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I find as I wind back the tension increases, and I deliberately slow down. There is a definite change in tension when it lets go.

The risk with leaving the leader out (which I do, having a Rondinax tank) is that I'll get confused between a film in the bag that I shot earlier in the day, and an unexposed film. Either way round, that's not a good thing! So once the film is out of the camera, I wind it until only half an inch or so is out of the cassette, so it looks very different from an unexposed film. Could also mark the cassetttes, I guess.

Not sure if you need it for your developer, but I added a bag of marbles to replace developer as I use it (on advice). I've yet to work out how to get them out and clean them when the bottle is finished, though!
 
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