First car might be a Ford Ka, oh dear...

fracster said:
No it isn`t, new drivers, contrary to what a lot of them think, are inexperienced and quite poor drivers.Hence a higher risk, hence a high premium.
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Okay, I paid £2400 for a year of insurance on a 1.25 Fiesta with ABS worth £1000, already had 18 months road experience on Motorbikes.

You consider this not expensive? That's £6.60 a day. At the time I was paying just a bit more than that a month for a CG125
 
its not the value of your car - its the potential for the expensive damage you might cause to someone elses - that potential is a lot lower with bikes (particularly little bikes)
 
big soft moose said:
its not the value of your car - its the potential for the expensive damage you might cause to someone elses - that potential is a lot lower with bikes (particularly little bikes)
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You obviously don't have many chavs on peds round your way then.
 
given that i live at the end of a 400m unsurfaced track i'm happy to report that the chav quotient is quite low - FTW

however while i understand your point , what i meant was that if a chav on a 'ped crashes into the front of your car at 30mph he'll do a lot less damage than a chav in a fiesta at the same speed
 
big soft moose said:
given that i live at the end of a 400m unsurfaced track i'm happy to report that the chav quotient is quite low - FTW

however while i understand your point , what i meant was that if a chav on a 'ped crashes into the front of your car at 30mph he'll do a lot less damage than a chav in a fiesta at the same speed
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Most round this way just tend to hit telegraph poles or lamp posts regardless of whether they are on a ped or in a car.
 
I had a KA first time round - no problems and easy to work on, nothing wrong with a KA!

I now drive a Golf 53 reg and my lowest quote for next year is £460 with 2 years no claims, from last years £980 and the year before was £1100, so it soon drops!
 
Get a bigger car. I had a Micra (K11 and K12) and they weren't hugely expensive to insure after my first year (considering my age/sex). But I always wanting something that wasn't an 'old woman car' and I discovered pretty much any bigger car is cheaper to insure. Probably because all the numpties who crash their cars and cost the insurers money are driving the Corsas and the like (which, for the record, are old lady's cars too - no matter how they're mangled with body kits etc).

Long story short, I'm now 3 years driving, and I'm as cheap to insure a TDi Jetta as I am to insure a Micra - and it's so much more comfortable. Have a look at family cars and get some quotes. They'll be more practical than your old dears's cars and more comfortable and quite possibly a bit cheaper!
 
wouldnt touch a corsa b , i got one as a first car for my eldest lad and it needed electrical engine parts every other week
clutch cables handbrake cables you name it and its still the same now that we sold it on
as for the young driver cost i think that a responsible young driver should be given some of his premium back if they dont make a claim
my oldest lad has a peugeot 106 gti and has accumulated 3 years ncd now he has just turned 21 so there not all lunatics

the very early ka's do rust quite badly, you wont see it externally
i have seen them change hands for 200-00 because of the welding required in awkward areas such as above the petrol tank
 
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yeah but the very early kas are about 18 years old now so its no suprise that they are changing hands for next to sod all, and that they have a bit of a rust issue - most 18 year old cars do. an 18 year old corsa etc won't be any different

when you get any cheap run about at that age, the only reasonable option is buy it for peanuts, run it till the MOT expires then scrap it and repeat

but you can get a good much newer, low milleage Ka with absolutely no rust issue for not much over a grand
 
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Digitalize said:
Okay, I paid £2400 for a year of insurance on a 1.25 Fiesta with ABS worth £1000, already had 18 months road experience on Motorbikes.

You consider this not expensive? That's £6.60 a day. At the time I was paying just a bit more than that a month for a CG125
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last time i looked a cg 125 is a bike, a ford fiesta is a car.

pointless comparing the two.
 
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It's got very little to do with the cost of the vehicle, and almost all to do with the risk/liability profile.

A young lad in a fiesta is far more likely to write-off an expensive german saloon in a crash than a biker is. Bikers are more likely to end up dead and causing someone to have a couple of dents pulled out.
 
Digitalize said:
Both go on the road, both can kill someone, why is one 1/30th of the price to insure, yet cost more?
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mid_gen said:
It's got very little to do with the cost of the vehicle, and almost all to do with the risk/liability profile.

A young lad in a fiesta is far more likely to write-off an expensive german saloon in a crash than a biker is. Bikers are more likely to end up dead and causing someone to have a couple of dents pulled out.
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Question answered mate. I know it may seem unfair to new drivers, but it is the cold harsh reality that they are a higher risk to other road users, so they pay more. We all have had to do the same thing,(it was no different 10,20 or 30 years ago), even old gits like me ............:D
 
fracster said:
Question answered mate. I know it may seem unfair to new drivers, but it is the cold harsh reality that they are a higher risk to other road users, so they pay more. We all have had to do the same thing,(it was no different 10,20 or 30 years ago), even old gits like me ............:D
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I seem to remember being easily able to afford my insurance on my first car 1600 Mk 3 Cortina, 33 years ago. Certainly didn't have to spread the cost over a year and I was only an apprentice.
Just because there is a risk of them damaging more expensive cars, it would be interesting to see the statistics of how many do damage more expensive cars.
As someone else said, if a young driver manages to go a year without an accident they should be awarded a rebate as well as a years ncb.
 
far fewer cars on the road 33 years ago
 
Wow thats crazy money. If you're going for a small car like a Ka then you're just as well have a 1000cc or below. Cheaper insurance and car tax. The new shape is a nice little car, the old shape is a little girly looking. My favourite looking mini car is the Citroen c2. But probably the most reliable is the Yaris 1.0 its only group 2 insurance and they will go on forever, your children will probably be learning to drive in it!:)
 
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fracster said:
No it isn`t, new drivers, contrary to what a lot of them think, are inexperienced and quite poor drivers.Hence a higher risk, hence a high premium.
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I'll remember that next time I have a grandad hesitate in the middle of a roundabout or when I have a middle aged business man up my arse at 70mph on the motorway.
 
Michaelk20 said:
I'll remember that next time I have a grandad hesitate in the middle of a roundabout or when I have a middle aged business man up my arse at 70mph on the motorway.
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Insurance companies have the accident statistics. Young drivers crash far more often than even elderly ones. That's why young ones pay more. Lack of experience also puts them into the trap of not knowing what their weaknesses are too so its the double danger of assuming because they could pass a driving test and not make a major error in 40 minutes of driving on familiar roads that they're perfectly safe elsewhere.

Gender gap will go from dec 21st this year too.

If you're doing an indicated 70 then there's a good chance you're actually only doing 62 or so as most speedos over read.
 
Insurance for young drivers have got ridiculous. Its like cigarettes they know what ever the price is people will pay.
 
srichards said:
Insurance companies have the accident statistics. Young drivers crash far more often than even elderly ones. That's why young ones pay more. Lack of experience also puts them into the trap of not knowing what their weaknesses are too so its the double danger of assuming because they could pass a driving test and not make a major error in 40 minutes of driving on familiar roads that they're perfectly safe elsewhere.

Gender gap will go from dec 21st this year too.

If you're doing an indicated 70 then there's a good chance you're actually only doing 62 or so as most speedos over read.
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Maybe so, but without getting into the who is a better driver argument its not just young people that are a risk on the road.

And my 70mph stated was 70mph on the sat nav.
 
srichards said:
Insurance companies have the accident statistics.
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And most of those statistics are a right load of *)&&)$%. Why should I pay more money as a toolmaker than a factory worker, just because more toolmakers statistically have made claims. As I work in a factory, guess what I put down as my occupation and save anything from £20-50 per year.
The way insurance premiums are worked out needs reviewing. We're all being conned, not just the younger drivers.
 
rjbell said:
Insurance for young drivers have got ridiculous. Its like cigarettes they know what ever the price is people will pay.
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well when the equal rights ejits win their fight over the fact young people pay more for insurance I for one will be thankful when its everyone elses premiums that go up rather than their premiums come down.....
 
has this been covered
what is your postcode? this has a lot to do with insurance costs?
harrogate is very good for the most part
 
whitewash said:
well when the equal rights ejits win their fight over the fact young people pay more for insurance I for one will be thankful when its everyone elses premiums that go up rather than their premiums come down.....
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Are you Benjamin Button then? :thinking:
 
Usage statistics are not the problem, they haven't changed and haven't caused the massive increases in the last few years. Young drivers do pay more and that's fine and perfectly explainable, it's the disproportionate increases that are an issue.

A quote that's now over £3,000 was £800 in Dec 09. It's the economic climate and the masses of whiplash & false claims that have caused it. I would love to see how they could explain a 300%+ increase in 3 years. It's not justified, no matter how you put it.

And also, it isn't just new drivers that are being taken the **** out of. If say my mother who has had her licence since her teens but hasn't driven in a few years returns to motoring, her quote comes in exactly the same as an 18 year old. We tested this with the comparison sites a while ago, and it's sickening.

Either way, I've got it down to something reasonable-ish at £1,300 - though that was £500 3 years ago. It's somewhat irritating that I'm much more mature than an 18 year old, and have much more road experience due to the motorbike, yet get treated as the same 'risk'.
 
I dread to think what would happen if someone endangered the life of my child by slamming there brakes on coursing a crash for a false whiplash claim. I think i would blow my top and get into trouble. I stiff neck would be the least of his worries.
 
Well, today has really changed things, and brings this to a conclusion... I didn't have to buy a Ford KA!

I have just bought a Vauxhall Astra 1.6 (mk4) and the insurance was £1,600 (and could pay monthly! phew)

This was £3k yesterday, so this has something to do with the new gender rules.

I'm happy now :)

Oddly, this price only budged by pennies if I added drivers, took them off, added mileage, changed to third party only, TPF&T... all the same bar a few pence.

Picking it up tomorrow, paid £600 for the car. It's very clean and FSH, high mileage but I only need it until the summer months when I'm selling my car and then I'll part-ex it for a nicer one, or run it until it blows up. Can't wait! no more getting soaked through! :thumbs: bangernomics here I come...
 
great news Adam :thumbs: , I remember by first insurance quote being £1400 for a 5 year old Clio and I eventually managed to get TPFT for around £800 but it is a big shock to the cash flow. My insurance has just doubled from £300 to £600 with my new car and I am ticking like a meter.
 
STAFF EDIT: Post removed, looks a bit like an advert to me.....
 
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I used to work at an insurance company. The statistics are plain and here are some examples (they are not totally accurate but are in the region of right, they are from memory and I've slept since then).....

  • If you are under 21 you are 5-10x more likely to be involved in a car accident than someone aged 40.
  • If you 21-25 years old you are 3-6x more likely to be involved in a car accident than someone aged 40.
  • If you are under 25 you average speed when having your more likely car accident is MUCH more than that of someone aged 40.
  • If you are female you are MORE likely to be involved in a car accident (yes you read that right!)
  • BUT if you are female your average accident cost is 40-60% of the cost of a male's car accident as they are usually at a much lower speed (often car parks etc).
  • If you are 60 years old or over the chances of having a car accident are MORE per mile than that of someone aged 40 (yes you read that right too!)
  • BUT if you are 60+ the average speed of your accident is vastly less AND you will be doing, on average, far less miles per year so are a smaller risk.
  • Young female drivers are catching young male drivers in the carp driving competition.
  • Experience is golden (usually).
  • 2 wheel experience makes little difference to driving on 4 wheels.
  • Certain occupations make the driver far more of a risk (they just do, it's stats).
  • Probably 80% of young drivers think they are above average when in fact very few are even average let alone above average!


Stats when used CORRECTLY are useful for predicting the future but used incorrectly they can predict rubbish e.g. if more people who's names start with S have accidents in 2013 it does not mean that the same will happen in 2014 BUT if more people in say Manchester have their cars stolen than in the highlands of Scotland it is quite likely that that will be the same in 2014.
 
I can understand some occupations making someone a higher risk especially if the occupation is related to driving, but it is unfair to make someone of a higher risk just because others of the same occupation means you're part of a higher statistic count.
 
nilagin said:
I can understand some occupations making someone a higher risk especially if the occupation is related to driving, but it is unfair to make someone of a higher risk just because others of the same occupation means you're part of a higher statistic count.
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No it isn't that is the entire point of underwriting, it is all about meaningful statistics! If you are a occupation that has shown to be a higher risk then you pay more, that is how it works.
 
Explain a toolmaker being a higher risk than a factory worker as a meaningful statistic then.
 
nilagin said:
Explain a toolmaker being a higher risk than a factory worker as a meaningful statistic then.
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I don't have to, the insurance company in question may well have statistics going back over several years. They are there to make a profit and in order to do that they need customers. They are not going to just get rid of a load of customers just because someone feels like rating toolmakers higher.

Blessed are the toolmakers.
Aha, what's so special about the toolmakers?
Well, obviously it's not meant to be taken literally; it refers to any manufacturers of metal products.
 
I'll just continue to classify myself as a factory worker then unless I can find another suitable occupation and save even more money.
 
Adam_M said:
Well, today has really changed things, and brings this to a conclusion... I didn't have to buy a Ford KA!

I have just bought a Vauxhall Astra 1.6 (mk4) and the insurance was £1,600 (and could pay monthly! phew)

This was £3k yesterday, so this has something to do with the new gender rules.

I'm happy now :)

Oddly, this price only budged by pennies if I added drivers, took them off, added mileage, changed to third party only, TPF&T... all the same bar a few pence.

Picking it up tomorrow, paid £600 for the car. It's very clean and FSH, high mileage but I only need it until the summer months when I'm selling my car and then I'll part-ex it for a nicer one, or run it until it blows up. Can't wait! no more getting soaked through! :thumbs: bangernomics here I come...
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Congrats, enjoy and be careful..........:thumbs:
 
nilagin said:
Explain a toolmaker being a higher risk than a factory worker as a meaningful statistic then.
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I get discount for having a class1 license and because Mrs Frac is on my insurance, she is an ex copper.
 
nilagin said:
I'll just continue to classify myself as a factory worker then unless I can find another suitable occupation and save even more money.
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An insurance contract is a contract of good faith. If you have a major claim and they investigate and find that you have not been totally honest you might have trouble. I cannot see how factory worker and toolmaker differ but I'm not the underwriter.
 
I work in a factory, so being totally honest. I don't see how they could determine my occupation anyway. Money saving expert site has promoted this loophole for several years now.
 
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