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Firefighter Strike
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its about pensions, a full pension of around 20k will be available to firefighters when they reach 60. thats about 8 years after most fireman are not able to meet the fitness requirements, so firemen have to find another job until the pension matures, if i understand it correctly..
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I fear the Fire Brigades Union has steadily lost public support with each successive industrial action. Combined with the fact that this strike is about inherently desirable Public Sector pensions, and I am not sure it will command general approval!
cambsno
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Me, me, me!!
They still get a better pension than many of us. Who do they think will pay for the pension? Yes, me, should I work till 75 or 80 then?? We live longer so either need to work longer or take less each year.
If u don't like it get another job. I have always worked in sales. Very stressful at times, and little job security with no pension. On the plus side I do get sometimes cushy hours (work from home) and can at times earn nice bonus. That's the trade off and if I don't like it then I can get something else.
Most firefighters have a 2nd job anyway.
They still get a better pension than many of us. Who do they think will pay for the pension? Yes, me, should I work till 75 or 80 then?? We live longer so either need to work longer or take less each year.
If u don't like it get another job. I have always worked in sales. Very stressful at times, and little job security with no pension. On the plus side I do get sometimes cushy hours (work from home) and can at times earn nice bonus. That's the trade off and if I don't like it then I can get something else.
Most firefighters have a 2nd job anyway.
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i think there is a big difference between trying to sell 100 units of Product X every week and going into a burning building to make sure its empty or rescue people...
..that said...
not sure what the answer is to this one though...
..that said...
not sure what the answer is to this one though...
boyfalldown
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You seem to fail to understand public sector workers pay tax too. It won't be just you that pays. What happens to public sector pension contributions now?
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Army usually gets drafted in.
If they are unable to pass the required fitness tests at 52, I daresay they will fail to pass the same tests at an earlier age. My mate is 58 he's a fireman and still manages to maintain his fitness requirement. Unless it's down to health issues, there's no reason why others can't continue to 60. They're already able to retire early on a good pension, think themselves fortunate. There's only two ways their pension fund can be topped up and quite frankly I pay enough tax and NI, so if they want to hang onto what they have, they can pay more in.
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There may be many public sector workers who don't deserve a cushy pension (equally there are probably many private sector works who don't earn their pay - Which the man in the street still pays , just as charges instead of taxes)
However people who go into burning buildings to save lives don't fall into that category (neither do cops, paramedics, nurses or frontline military ) Anyone who feels that they have it easy ought to go and try it out - most of them wouldn't last one shift , assuming they could make it through training in the first place
However people who go into burning buildings to save lives don't fall into that category (neither do cops, paramedics, nurses or frontline military ) Anyone who feels that they have it easy ought to go and try it out - most of them wouldn't last one shift , assuming they could make it through training in the first place
kevshore
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makes a change
It's only because we've made that many redundancies, that we probably haven't the numbers to spare! :thumbsdown:
Kev.
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Unless something has changed that I'm unaware of, they apply for these jobs, they're not forced into them, so they know what they are getting into and have the option to leave any time they want.
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the green goddesses have got to be unfit for purpose by now (talking about the army fire engines , not Yv and co 
) - doesn't the army have any modern fire fighting equipment ?
That aside its a 4 hour strike on one day only , and the FBU say that they will still respond to any 'major incident' :shrug:
) - doesn't the army have any modern fire fighting equipment ?That aside its a 4 hour strike on one day only , and the FBU say that they will still respond to any 'major incident' :shrug:
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Yeh, when they apply they also know about the terms, conditions and pensions which are now being eroded, pillaged and decimated and not what they were when they signed on. The option to leave is often not a very attractive one as a lot of public sector pensions are geared to ensuring people do complete long service. If you pull out short then you stand to lose out big style.
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have the option to leave and do what ? Also when they took the job they signed up to certain T&C , the govt is now trying to unilaterally change these conditions to something they didn't sign up to.
That aside no one is forced into any job , so if you or steve etc feel that firefighters are on a right cushy number there's nothing stopping you from becoming a firefighter - you'd soon discover the truth of what they 'deserve'
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People in the private sector have their terms and conditions eroded, why should the public sector be any different. No one is saying they have it cushy, I fail to see what that has to do with their chosen vocation anyway. It's unfortunate yes, but why should they be protected in these difficult economic times whilst others in the private sector are already struggling and the only way to protect the firemans T&C would be to make the private sector pay more at a time when they can least afford it.
If you have another solution feel free to comment.
If you have another solution feel free to comment.
cambsno
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Agree with this.
the green goddesses have got to be unfit for purpose by now (talking about the army fire engines , not Yv and co
That aside its a 4 hour strike on one day only , and the FBU say that they will still respond to any 'major incident' :shrug:
So what is the point? Surely a strike is to inconvenience... what will it prove/achieve?
Quite right, and with each job there are pluses and minuses. Life changes though, sometimes jobs become irrelevant (driverless trains in the future?), sometimes conditions change... With the way the public purse is now, and the fact we all live longer means pensions and the way we plan our later life has to change. When pensions were bought in people used to die earlier, many of us could live to 100 which is more pension/healthcare. We all have to get used to working well into our 60s.
You cant have it both ways... you either retire at the age set now, but take less per year, or keep the value but retire later.
Yes, I have no urge to run into a burning building, but we are all important. Without say mechanics, they couldnt get to the buildings in the first place... no-one is more important than anyone else, without drug companies nurses could not be as effective. IIRC i remember seeing stats that said that being a fireman was not that dangerous (could be wrong).
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hmmm personally I am opposed to strike action....
just personal beliefs, and I couldn't care if others support it or refute it...
From what I can see, pretty much every fireman upon joining up knew there would be an odds on chance of having to go into a burning building and fight fires - part of the job - so that doesn't run as an argument...
Yes theres a load of other crap that goes with the job from resucing stuck cats through to cutting people out of cars.. again you knew what you were signing up to...
Pensions change? Welcome to the 10's! How many people on here were on FSP schemes, now to be moved over to money purchase........
just personal beliefs, and I couldn't care if others support it or refute it...
From what I can see, pretty much every fireman upon joining up knew there would be an odds on chance of having to go into a burning building and fight fires - part of the job - so that doesn't run as an argument...
Yes theres a load of other crap that goes with the job from resucing stuck cats through to cutting people out of cars.. again you knew what you were signing up to...
Pensions change? Welcome to the 10's! How many people on here were on FSP schemes, now to be moved over to money purchase........
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And now for some light comedy relief . . . as so to speak.
(I did this sketch some ten years ago when there was a national fireman's strike back then. Actually, I might do a modern version of it come the moment).
(I did this sketch some ten years ago when there was a national fireman's strike back then. Actually, I might do a modern version of it come the moment).
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Ruffy
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Stats to say our job is not that dangerous ???
It bloody well is, the reason we are not being killed as often is down to the constant training and more training and then some more rather than sitting around drinking tea, playing pool and then followed by sleeping all night !!!
Just a little heads up...we don't have pool tables, we don't sit on our arse all day drinking tea waiting for the bells to go down and....we don't sleep all night because we no longer have beds ( in my brigade anyway)
I have stayed very quiet after starting this thread and I'm glad I did as it has high lighted just how misinformed the public are on this strike which is a real shame, for me it's not about the increase in contributions, it's not really the less pension....it's the fact that they want us to work till 65 not 60 and if we can't do the job they will sack us !!!
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Ruffy
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And they also informed us that the retirement age would not change due to the working environment we work in
barratt1988
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Seems they are acting like teachers. They have had it so well for so long and now they seem hard done by. Ill be working till im 80, there moaning at 65? With a bloody good pension! Its a shame the times are changing but rather than striking maybe we should be uniting to take back our country, close the borders and sort this country out
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seriousrikk
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It isn't about the retirement age itself. It is the fact that they will not be able to keep their job due to retirement age.
I know I can do my job until I retire, I work at a computer. But a lot of firefighters will not be able to work in their job until retirement age. Is that fair?
Bernie174
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As I understand it, they will have to work as firemen until aged 60 to qualify for a full pension.
The chances of which are nil to sod all, due to the requirements of the job.
Which is all well and good, if you join under those terms. But for someone approaching the pre proposal pension age with an expectation from their original contact, this is a disaster.
So, while in general, I don't agree with strikes, especially in the Emergency services, this time I do.
HMG has done exactly the same to Police officers, who before the gold plated pension comments start, pay now in excess of 14% for that now reduced pension, and have paid nearly double what the majority of people ever have since the 70's.
So these wonder pensions are in fact in the majority of cases no longer achievable, hence why the FB and Police are just a tad peed off with the Government these days.
Meanwhile, an MP's pension is something worth having for very little cost, and no risk to your life, limb or health, but thats OK because we are all in this together.
Oh and the Green Godesses got sold off a few years ago, and local authorities went into contingency arrangements with private companies, so no forces, just police to assess and put the minor fires out and then Serco etc.
The chances of which are nil to sod all, due to the requirements of the job.
Which is all well and good, if you join under those terms. But for someone approaching the pre proposal pension age with an expectation from their original contact, this is a disaster.
So, while in general, I don't agree with strikes, especially in the Emergency services, this time I do.
HMG has done exactly the same to Police officers, who before the gold plated pension comments start, pay now in excess of 14% for that now reduced pension, and have paid nearly double what the majority of people ever have since the 70's.
So these wonder pensions are in fact in the majority of cases no longer achievable, hence why the FB and Police are just a tad peed off with the Government these days.
Meanwhile, an MP's pension is something worth having for very little cost, and no risk to your life, limb or health, but thats OK because we are all in this together.
Oh and the Green Godesses got sold off a few years ago, and local authorities went into contingency arrangements with private companies, so no forces, just police to assess and put the minor fires out and then Serco etc.
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cambsno
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I can't remember where I saw it, but I did read fatality at work stats and firemen was not that bad. A quick search says that fisherman do the most dangerous job, but also read that lorry driving is more dangerous than you think.
Maybe you can enlighten me, but if say you got severe arthritis (or other illness) wouldn't you be invalided out (ie get early retirement), so it would only affect people who become unfit (ie something you can control)?
cambsno
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It's the gold plated pensions of the past that have contributed to this mess, they are simply unsustainable. Life expectancy continues to increase, and something has to give.
MP comment is fair enough but there are only 600 odd MPs so that is minimal compared to the tens of thousands of police/fire.
Yes, you may pay more than you did to get the same, but I like many workers do not get contributions paid, if I don't pay into a pension I get NOTHING.
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so bin your job (no one is forcing you to do whatever you do) and become a fireman - afterall they have it easy , all they have to do is go into burning buildings on a regular basis
srichards
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Today's 60 year olds are a lot fitter than they used to be. It isn't unreasonable to suggest that those under 25 or maybe 30 joining now wouldn't be knackered before 60 and could work reasonably until that age. What is unfair is expecting those over a certain age already to work until 60 to get a full pension.
Making public sector as crap as private doesn't do anyone any good. Both need to pay living wages and offer decent pensions. Or everyone will be paying pensioners benefits for years because none of them could contribute properly and the employers wouldn't either.
Making public sector as crap as private doesn't do anyone any good. Both need to pay living wages and offer decent pensions. Or everyone will be paying pensioners benefits for years because none of them could contribute properly and the employers wouldn't either.
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Ruffy
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You have just hit the nail on its head, at last......
This is the whole point, their is no such thing as ill health retirement really, so if you end up with arthritis, bad knee or any other kind of illness other than general Vo2 input/output then your going to be sacked, simple as that !
And a quick question for everyone, god forbid that a member of your family were to become trapped in a house fire, would you want a 60-65 year old person to come along and attempt a rescue, one where they may have to push their limits a little higher to achieve the task ? Or maybe at a complicated RTC where prolonged periods of use of extremely heavy cutting gear is required to extricate your family member ?
Think of the first 60-65 year old person that comes into your head, would you want them coming to save you or somebody else ?
Okay, I guess I should just up sticks, throw my career down the pan because someone came along and drastically wants to change something that I had originally signed up for...that was to work till I'm 55 not 65