Firefighter Strike

[Bernie174]

I'm sorry, but there's a number of people, OK, most posting on here who really have no idea what they are talking about when it comes to the emergency services. Thats not an insult, it's simply you don't know because at 3am, when we (as I was part of that I'll use we to save confusion) are all out to play, you'#re in bed asleep.

Ok so lets start at that point, there you are asleep, when bells and whistles go off, and you have to be awake, thinking practically and ready to go. Not after a cup of tea, a nice long shower and gradual coming to terms with the world, now.

Follow that by a rush through the streets at a reasonable speed with blues/twos going to be faced with a huge number of different types of incident.

That for starters puts a huge strain on your system, no mater how fit you are. I've seen gym addicts keel over in their mid 40's, and yes, I've seen the 6 pints a night and 60 fags a day solider on fit as a fiddle way beyond retirement, and every combination of that.

But, in common with all the emergency services, it kills you. When the Edmund Davies report was published in the late 70's, the life expectancy on average for a Police officer after retirement was 1 year. Yep, 12 months.

The fire service as I recall were in the same boat, constant zero to body full adrenaline, constant changes of shifts, regular lack of sleep, regularly being in a position where your pulse goes through the roof from fear. Having to be (remember you don't) within a few feet of smoke from fires containing all sorts of crap, with no access to breathing apparatus. The list goes on.

There may be a few, and it will be a few Fire service and Police officers that make retirement, but thats all a few. Don't make it, and the pensions are probably worse than most of yours.

Oh well, you get what you pay for, the public needs to wake up, because in a few years time, it will cost a fortune to undo the damage to the emergency services in E&W.

 

[barratt1988]

I'm sorry, but there's a number of people, OK, most posting on here who really have no idea what they are talking about when it comes to the emergency services. Thats not an insult, it's simply you don't know because at 3am, when we (as I was part of that I'll use we to save confusion) are all out to play, you'#re in bed asleep.

Ok so lets start at that point, there you are asleep, when bells and whistles go off, and you have to be awake, thinking practically and ready to go. Not after a cup of tea, a nice long shower and gradual coming to terms with the world, now.

Follow that by a rush through the streets at a reasonable speed with blues/twos going to be faced with a huge number of different types of incident.

That for starters puts a huge strain on your system, no mater how fit you are. I've seen gym addicts keel over in their mid 40's, and yes, I've seen the 6 pints a night and 60 fags a day solider on fit as a fiddle way beyond retirement, and every combination of that.

But, in common with all the emergency services, it kills you. When the Edmund Davies report was published in the late 70's, the life expectancy on average for a Police officer after retirement was 1 year. Yep, 12 months.

The fire service as I recall were in the same boat, constant zero to body full adrenaline, constant changes of shifts, regular lack of sleep, regularly being in a position where your pulse goes through the roof from fear. Having to be (remember you don't) within a few feet of smoke from fires containing all sorts of crap, with no access to breathing apparatus. The list goes on.

There may be a few, and it will be a few Fire service and Police officers that make retirement, but thats all a few. Don't make it, and the pensions are probably worse than most of yours.

Oh well, you get what you pay for, the public needs to wake up, because in a few years time, it will cost a fortune to undo the damage to the emergency services in E&W.

I dont know about firefighters.. but I know about working through the night and such. I also know your pension is far better than anyother. Rightly or wrongly its not for me to say. Personally I dont think you should be on call till your 60 because many people will be useless by then but what do you suggest? The country is in a bad way thanks to the morons running it allowing anyone in to the country and claiming benefits and that wont change so how do we get more out of you firefighters then? I have to work well into my 60's in a job that im sure il struggle to do then but no one cares so what do you suggest happens?

 

[ding76uk]

I dont know about firefighters.. but I know about working through the night and such. I also know your pension is far better than anyother. Rightly or wrongly its not for me to say. Personally I dont think you should be on call till your 60 because many people will be useless by then but what do you suggest? The country is in a bad way thanks to the morons running it allowing anyone in to the country and claiming benefits and that wont change so how do we get more out of you firefighters then? I have to work well into my 60's in a job that im sure il struggle to do then but no one cares so what do you suggest happens?

Well lets outsource everything and have it all handed to the one who pays the most (Royal Mail) or those who come in cheapest (The NHS etc.) screw the quality, it's cheap that we want, in case you didn;t notice THERE'S A RECESSION!!!!!! Oh yeah we'll cut taxes for the richest while we're here.

There are several ways we could/can save money, but the NHS pension pot wasn't in the red when it was butchered. Not sure on the fire service.

The problem is these people save lives every day. In the same way teaching is going, there is going to be a mass exodus of existing staff in the near future with no-one to replace them. Cue a slew of monetary offers trying to tempt people back into the professions costing in a round about way the same as keeping it as it was.

But you know, those who dare to stand up for their rights = bad, those who bend over and take it are great and they love to moan about how great the golden pension, job for life (insert any other BS soundbite they have picked up) the public sector is.

 

[omens]

Oh well, you get what you pay for, the public needs to wake up, because in a few years time, it will cost a fortune to undo the damage to the emergency services in E&W.

Completely agree with this. The NHS is being walked into the hands of private companies but the Govt have managed to divide the public against the doctors, nurses and other healthcare professionals who help look after people. In some ways, I really want the NHS to die so people can see how awesome they ever had it.

 

[nilagin]

Oh well, you get what you pay for.

Exactly we all have to pay for it and many people can't afford to pay anymore.
Ok jobs are in short supply, but you have a choice. Choose a job that has an end product which pays your wages and hopefully with your own contributions sustains a pension, or you pick a job with no physical product, where your wages and your pension rely on taxes of one form or another.
Both have their advantages when the economy is good, but at present the economy is struggling. It would seem that no job is safe these days, but if you're fortunate enough to hang on to it there has to be cutbacks whether it's company for them to remain in business or a government for the country's economy to bounce back and survive.

 

[Ruffy]

Exactly we all have to pay for it and many people can't afford to pay anymore.
Ok jobs are in short supply, but you have a choice. Choose a job that has an end product which pays your wages and hopefully with your own contributions sustains a pension, or you pick a job with no physical product, where your wages and your pension rely on taxes of one form or another.
Both have their advantages when the economy is good, but at present the economy is struggling. It would seem that no job is safe these days, but if you're fortunate enough to hang on to it there has to be cutbacks whether it's company for them to remain in business or a government for the country's economy to bounce back and survive.

I can't believe you still don't get it, I picked this job with the conditions that were set out in front of me not "oh by the way, we will shaft you when your half we through it and then make you work to 65 and if you can't....we will sack you !!!

I'll just leave then shall I, like ****...I/we will fight this for several reasons and the most important one is this....PEOPLE WILL DIE, people who I work with, members of the public, future firefighters and god forbid....one of your relatives due to the fact a firefighter aged 65 is madness

 

[Mikesphotaes]

I can't believe you still don't get it, I picked this job with the conditions that were set out in front of me not "oh by the way, we will shaft you when your half we through it and then make you work to 65 and if you can't....we will sack you !!!

I'll just leave then shall I, like ****...I/we will fight this for several reasons and the most important one is this....PEOPLE WILL DIE, people who I work with, members of the public, future firefighters and god forbid....one of your relatives due to the fact a firefighter aged 65 is madness

My mates all retired from the Fire Service when they were 55 and I think it is daft to change the age to 60 because they do have a lot of stress and strains in their daily jobs.

One point that does have me scratching my head though is you going on about 65.

There is nothing about this in your educational post 61 so where does this age limit come from ?

 

[barratt1988]

Well lets outsource everything and have it all handed to the one who pays the most (Royal Mail) or those who come in cheapest (The NHS etc.) screw the quality, it's cheap that we want, in case you didn;t notice THERE'S A RECESSION!!!!!! Oh yeah we'll cut taxes for the richest while we're here.

There are several ways we could/can save money, but the NHS pension pot wasn't in the red when it was butchered. Not sure on the fire service.

The problem is these people save lives every day. In the same way teaching is going, there is going to be a mass exodus of existing staff in the near future with no-one to replace them. Cue a slew of monetary offers trying to tempt people back into the professions costing in a round about way the same as keeping it as it was.

But you know, those who dare to stand up for their rights = bad, those who bend over and take it are great and they love to moan about how great the golden pension, job for life (insert any other BS soundbite they have picked up) the public sector is.

Personally I think all the services have gone to the dogs. The nhs is useless hence why I went private. The police are a waste of space and as for taxes I think the real issue is the lack of people paying taxes. As for standing up for your rights I was recently voting for strike actions. My question is what do the firefighters suggest happens now?

 

[Hugh Jarse]

the green goddesses have got to be unfit for purpose by now (talking about the army fire engines , not Yv and co ) - doesn't the army have any modern fire fighting equipment ?

That aside its a 4 hour strike on one day only , and the FBU say that they will still respond to any 'major incident' :shrug:

The Green Giodesses were sold off in very good condition

There were blue and yellow ones too and were stored in Uttoxeter.

They were very simple bedford trucks with a very powerful pumps and a water tank. Most went for about £3K each in working condition. They were kept under cover (big biildings) and serviced since the 50s till about 8 years ago

Did the job.

S

 

[barratt1988]

I can't believe you still don't get it, I picked this job with the conditions that were set out in front of me not "oh by the way, we will shaft you when your half we through it and then make you work to 65 and if you can't....we will sack you !!!

I'll just leave then shall I, like ****...I/we will fight this for several reasons and the most important one is this....PEOPLE WILL DIE, people who I work with, members of the public, future firefighters and god forbid....one of your relatives due to the fact a firefighter aged 65 is madness

If you took a job based on t&c them am sorry but your daft. I dont agree with how this conpany is ran but if you think things like pensions wont change your as nieve as these bloody teachers. Over only 8years ive lost my pension, have to work till im 67 had the number of people im my department cut massive so im now doin 4 peoples jobs. Having to work **** hours but does anyone care? No and they wont because everyone has it bad

 

[barratt1988]

The Green Giodesses were sold off in very good condition

There were blue and yellow ones too and were stored in Uttoxeter.

They were very simple bedford trucks with a very powerful pumps and a water tank. Most went for about £3K each in working condition. They were kept under cover (big biildings) and serviced since the 50s till about 8 years ago

Did the job.

S

Sorry but most of them where in crap condition. And as a cost saving exercise sold off cheap

 

[POAH]

pretty disgusted at the thought of this. firemen and alike should not be allowed to strike. however, the government shouldn't be able to change the pension you signed up for either.

 

[big soft moose]

I dont know about firefighters.. but I know about working through the night and such. I also know your pension is far better than anyother. Rightly or wrongly its not for me to say. Personally I dont think you should be on call till your 60 because many people will be useless by then but what do you suggest? The country is in a bad way thanks to the morons running it allowing anyone in to the country and claiming benefits and that wont change so how do we get more out of you firefighters then? I have to work well into my 60's in a job that im sure il struggle to do then but no one cares so what do you suggest happens?

I'm sorry but that's rubbish - public sector final salary schemes are okay , but they aren't anywhere near as good as the amount that an executive will get in the private sector

Its 1/80th (used to be 60th until 2010) of your final salary per year of service - so if you do 40 years you get half your final salary as pension. That's not bad... it probably equates to about £15k for the average firefighter , but that's nowt compared to what the average executive will get .

I'd suggest that we pay the people we need a decent wage and pension and tax the **** out of the money grubbing parasites at the top (and also close all the loop holes on tax avoidance and invasion)

 

[omens]

(and also close all the loop holes on tax avoidance and invasion)

+1 to this. IIRC there's in the order of £30bn uncollected tax in the UK. Collect the tax and not only could we avoid strikes, but we could improve working conditions for all public sector workers.

 

[barratt1988]

I'm sorry but that's rubbish - public sector final salary schemes are okay , but they aren't anywhere near as good as the amount that an executive will get in the private sector

Its 1/80th (used to be 60th until 2010) of your final salary per year of service - so if you do 40 years you get half your final salary as pension. That's not bad... it probably equates to about £15k for the average firefighter , but that's nowt compared to what the average executive will get .

I'd suggest that we pay the people we need a decent wage and pension and tax the **** out of the money grubbing parasites at the top (and also close all the loop holes on tax avoidance and invasion)

Right so your issue is with the people at the top (dont blame you there ********s) but surely the issue really lies with the benefit cheats and immigrants?

If the pensions not what you want then why not have a normal investment pension like we have all had to take as our final salary kind was ended... o thats right because they suck. Im affraid to say rightly or wrongly something has to change. And its either cut pay and numbers or work longer? Like I said I dont agree with the way this dumo is ran but its not like it matters what us normal people thing

 

[fracster]

+1 to this. IIRC there's in the order of £30bn uncollected tax in the UK. Collect the tax and not only could we avoid strikes, but we could improve working conditions for all public sector workers.

I wonder how much of that is from people buying camera equipment from Hong Kong illegally..............

 

[barratt1988]

I wonder how much of that is from people buying camera equipment from Hong Kong illegally..............

Mm not alot lol. Id say more fro. Taxi firms and takeaways... everytime I get a taxi or a pizza I see a different face haha

 

[big soft moose]

Right so your issue is with the people at the top (dont blame you there ********s) but surely the issue really lies with the benefit cheats and immigrants?

If the pensions not what you want then why not have a normal investment pension like we have all had to take as our final salary kind was ended... o thats right because they suck. Im affraid to say rightly or wrongly something has to change. And its either cut pay and numbers or work longer? Like I said I dont agree with the way this dumo is ran but its not like it matters what us normal people thing

how about pay the essential workers properly and stop wasting money on consultants and such. The civil service wastes a collsal amount of tax payers money on trivial PC crap - plus benefits cheats cost the country considerably less than tax dodging rich *******s and companies (although yes those who are cheating - as opposed to those who need them) should also be cracked down on.

 

[barratt1988]

If that where true id be very well off. My company has managers coming out its arse... I dont actually know who runs the company so I couldnt agree more but are people going to listen... no.

At the end of the day they will strike we will get by and something will change.. but what? If they get there way people will lose jobs. The government wont take a pay cut. Wont stop immigration as its racist... god knows how. And wont persue big companies in fear of them taking there business elsewhere. .. despite it not helpong us in the first place. Truth is the place has gone to the dogs. Ive heard the US fireservice is good amd the trucks are bigger

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Sorry but most of them where in crap condition. And as a cost saving exercise sold off cheap

No they were not

I was actually in the EFS buildings on a job there

Have you been there when they were still in readiness?

Some were used on civil contingency work non stop at the Somerset levels.

They were 50 years old and some had less than 3000 miles on them. The busted ones had, in many cases, been gutted for spares. They were those involved in accidents.

For 50 year old vehicles they could be readied for service in the time it took to train squaddies to drive them.

The "New Dimension" Emergency Vehicles designed not as replacements were bought and prepared and AFAIK were not the right vehicles nut were incredible pieces of work using MAN tactors they had multipurpose pods which included hose pipe layers gbat could feed main pipe from source mains at 40mph.

http://www.romar.org.uk/page97.html

These were specced for a new age of threat.

It is worth remembering that the modern firefighter has to deal with a wholly different world that even 30 years ago and in ever more difficult urban settings.

As an example the population increases and more homes are built whilst fire stations reduce in number to "save money". A helicopter crashes in Vauxhall/Nine Elms - burning kerosene pouring down etc. When I worked in that area the nearest fire station was 500 yards away on the Albert Embankment but no engines came from there. A station you coul view the Houses of Parliament fom the front of.

The powers that be are ripping down established public services which are seen as bad because it comes out of public money.

People employed to work in those services were given contracts whivh detailed salary terms and conditions which included a pension based on years of service. Now the powers that be want to impose drastic changes to those contracts and in order to do so have used the wide sycophantic media to deride and destroy those people most of whom are NOT on fantastic wages. Some of the lowest paid workers in the UK work i the NHS.

So all public services are targetted by a creeping whisperig campaign that they are not fit for purpose etc So Police, Fire, Schools, Health are all deemed as failing over manned etc throuhh a whispeting campaign designed by the rich few , to turn the makjority in on itself.

Read the Daily Mail and everyone in Social Housing lives on benefits, all immigrants come hereto live on benefits etc , they find a woman that has 11 kids ans she all on her own is stealing from each and everyone of the other 60million living here.

To read the blamenonsense spouted on here shows that the propaganda has worked. Shameful and guess what - I watched an old film where the phrase "in these difficult times" was used.

When next you look enviously at the so called "golden pensions" EARNED by some workers I would suggest you look back in history and realise that decent working conditions and a education/health service wrre not gifted to the nation but fought for. Yes things had to change. The ruination of a manufacturing industry and an expectation that people would "compete" for their jobs was a false dawn.

As has been said, if you can do the fireman's job then go and do it. I cannot but I am glad they are there. In some US towns, houses must by statute have fire suppressio systems as local taxes are cut to the point that there is no fire setvice and in others a Monday-Friday Police Service where at weekends coverage is through the Sheriffs dept. Less availability and zero detectives.

If you areunhappy in your job do what many do - retrain for a better paid jon. The politics of envy will lock you into the mire you may be in.

S

 

[Garry Edwards]

As an example the population increases and more homes are built whilst fire stations reduce in number to "save money".

S

London, 1992, my house caught fire (kitchen), about 2 a.m. My wife couldn't get to the phone, went to the house opposite, couldn't get back in.
Our 15 year old daughter was safe enough, ended up on the outside of her bedroom window cill and sensibly ignored shouts to jump.
Fortunately, 19 year old son, on holiday from uni, was sharing a bedroom with 9 year old son, and managed to carry him to safety in back garden.

The local fire station was about 1 mile away and the first pump arrived in less than 3 minutes. Another arrived seconds later and "Make pumps 4" led to 2 more. The first crew demolished a wall to get to the boys, not knowing that they were relatively safe. No injuries except to 1 firefighter, who fell through the floor, apparently not serious.

If that happened today it would be just one pump, sent from a station MUCH further away.

Sadly, the firefighters are victims of their own success, as well as of political and cost measures - improving education and fitting smoke alarms has reduced the number of serious domestic fires.

 

[wack61]

have the option to leave and do what ? '

Kissagram, assuming they get to keep the uniform

 

[nilagin]

I can't believe you still don't get it, I picked this job with the conditions that were set out in front of me not "oh by the way, we will shaft you when your half we through it and then make you work to 65 and if you can't....we will sack you !!!

I'll just leave then shall I, like ****...I/we will fight this for several reasons and the most important one is this....PEOPLE WILL DIE, people who I work with, members of the public, future firefighters and god forbid....one of your relatives due to the fact a firefighter aged 65 is madness

I'm willing to guess that a crew will consist of various ages. There will be no government official ensuring the older ones are forced to fight fires or lift heavy cutting gear. They will be assigned other jobs. It's just a case of having to continue working and paying into the pension fund.

 

[big soft moose]

I'm willing to guess that a crew will consist of various ages. There will be no government official ensuring the older ones are forced to fight fires or lift heavy cutting gear. They will be assigned other jobs. It's just a case of having to continue working and paying into the pension fund.

again this shows a misunderstanding of what the job involves - you can't have a position where some of the crew are only capable of light duties, what are they supposed to do if they encounter an injured person in a burning building "oh sorry mate, i can't lift you its my back you know, we'll just wait til the younger guys get here shall we"

you could have a light duties section to which older firefighters transfered which didnt take part in active service, but the govt isn't proposing or funding that ... what agreives the firefighters is that they'll simply be dismised when they arent fit enough for active service rather than being able to continue work or retire

 

[barratt1988]

Well I think anyone on here will agree that someting has to be done... unfortunately its being done wrong but we have all had our t and c's altered but we had to just deal with it

 

[big soft moose]

we could have gone on strike to protest about it (unless you're a cop or a soilder) - Unison did, much good that it did us - i left and got a third sector job as a result

 

[BRASH]

we could have gone on strike to protest about it (unless you're a cop or a soilder) - Unison did, much good that it did us - i left and got a third sector job as a result

I'd love to see the Police have the right to strike. That'd be interesting!!

 

[The23rdman]

I dont know about firefighters.. but I know about working through the night and such. I also know your pension is far better than anyother. Rightly or wrongly its not for me to say. Personally I dont think you should be on call till your 60 because many people will be useless by then but what do you suggest? The country is in a bad way thanks to the morons running it allowing anyone in to the country and claiming benefits and that wont change so how do we get more out of you firefighters then? I have to work well into my 60's in a job that im sure il struggle to do then but no one cares so what do you suggest happens?

Benefits and immigrants are not the problem! Jesus, some of the retards in this country beggar belief. Stop reading the popular press and find out the real facts and figures and then you might actually have an original thought.

 

[H2O]

Think of the first 60-65 year old person that comes into your head, would you want them coming to save you or somebody else ?

Yes, my dad keeps up with me on the squash court every week (among other things) & would be perfectly capable physically.

Personally i'm against striking in general. I also think all pensions should be fully contributions based.

 

[barratt1988]

Benefits and immigrants are not the problem! Jesus, some of the retards in this country beggar belief. Stop reading the popular press and find out the real facts and figures and then you might actually have an original thought.

If you believe the crap you just wrote then your an idiot. How is people sponging off the state not an issue? Its not what I read its what I see. Do you live in a little village away from the world? Jesus open your eyes! Parts of the country are now down to 17% white british thats a fact and if you think everyone there is workin then your dreaming.

... or am I a racist for thinkin this and being correct

 

[DemiLion]

If you believe the crap you just wrote then your an idiot. How is people sponging off the state not an issue? Its not what I read its what I see. Do you live in a little village away from the world? Jesus open your eyes! Parts of the country are now down to 17% white british thats a fact and if you think everyone there is workin then your dreaming.

... or am I a racist for thinkin this and being correct

Yes you are being racist- or at the very least a xenophobic bigot.

I take it that you live in a largish city? It seems to be affecting your grip on reality slightly.
Most of this country is still very much 'English'.

Immigration and benefit fraud problems don't even touch the surface of the problems in our current economic climate.

 

[barratt1988]

Yes you are being racist- or at the very least a xenophobic bigot.

I take it that you live in a largish city? It seems to be affecting your grip on reality slightly.
Most of this country is still very much 'English'.

Immigration and benefit fraud problems don't even touch the surface of the problems in our current economic climate.

Nope your wrong on many points . I live in an average size town. So am racist for not wanting an invasion of people sponging? Call me what you like. I wouldnt mind but the facts are there arent enough jobs, they come over here and either take the jobs (though thats very rare) or sponge off the state. How is that not an issue?

Open you eyes and look around at the population once in a while. And before its stated again I dont read the papers I see with my own 2 eyes

 

[BRASH]

Yes you are being racist- or at the very least a xenophobic bigot.


Most of this country is still very much 'English'.

.

I thought we all lived in Britain. Oh, right enough half the bloody folk up here ARE English.

 

[DemiLion]

Nope your wrong on many points . I live in an average size town. So am racist for not wanting an invasion of people sponging? Call me what you like. I wouldnt mind but the facts are there arent enough jobs, they come over here and either take the jobs (though thats very rare) or sponge off the state. How is that not an issue?

Open you eyes and look around at the population once in a while. And before its stated again I dont read the papers I see with my own 2 eyes

I take it that you consider yourself English then?

I've got news for you. The population of this county has been subject to the influx of other 'races' since time immemorial.

It isn't going to change just because a few uneducated (in terms of history), narrow minded twits want to keep England for the 'English' -or Britain for the British come to mention it.

If you really want to go down that route, would you and the rest of your Angle/Saxon comrades mind peeing off back to mainland Europe and leaving this land to the native Britons?

 

[DemiLion]

Oh, and taking the Normans with you would be really great as well!

 

[barratt1988]

I take it that you consider yourself English then?

I've got news for you. The population of this county has been subject to the influx of other 'races' since time immemorial.

It isn't going to change just because a few uneducated (in terms of history), narrow minded twits want to keep England for the 'English' -or Britain for the British come to mention it.

If you really want to go down that route, would you and the rest of your Angle/Saxon comrades mind peeing off back to mainland Europe and leaving this land to the native Britons?

Haha brill using history to discuss current events... to be honest I cant be bothered with this anymore as you are clearly blind. Thinking this country has any back bone left.

Maybe your correct but your speaking invasions which destroyed the country... hmm just as the foreigners are doing now. If your going to use history then realise that the knock on was after the event. And I do.t care if your black white of yellow but if you sponge off the state and choose to playthe system rather than get a job I wont accept you as an equal in this country. Thay isnt racism its the ethics and morals I live my life by

 

[ding76uk]

Nope your wrong on many points . I live in an average size town. So am racist for not wanting an invasion of people sponging? Call me what you like. I wouldnt mind but the facts are there arent enough jobs, they come over here and either take the jobs (though thats very rare) or sponge off the state. How is that not an issue? Open you eyes and look around at the population once in a while. And before its stated again I dont read the papers I see with my own 2 eyes

Evidence? I mean real evidence. Saying look there's some non English speakers is not evidence. I mean costs in benefits or the evidence "they" have taken all the jobs?

 

[ding76uk]

Haha brill using history to discuss current events... to be honest I cant be bothered with this anymore as you are clearly blind. Thinking this country has any back bone left. Maybe your correct but your speaking invasions which destroyed the country... hmm just as the foreigners are doing now. If your going to use history then realise that the knock on was after the event. And I do.t care if your black white of yellow but if you sponge off the state and choose to playthe system rather than get a job I wont accept you as an equal in this country. Thay isnt racism its the ethics and morals I live my life by

No, no it is definitely racism. Don't fool yourself.

 

[barratt1988]

No, no it is definitely racism. Don't fool yourself.

No im pretty sure it isnt wanting everyone to play by the same rules isnt racism.

 

[barratt1988]

Evidence? I mean real evidence. Saying look there's some non English speakers is not evidence. I mean costs in benefits or the evidence "they" have taken all the jobs?

Haha sorry I didnt see you give any evidence? Didnt realise you where blind and needed numbers and figures as you dont leave your house...