Fingerprint Sensor?

DekHog

DekHog

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Derek
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OK, this is a weird one, but thought I'd throw it out here anyway as I know there's techy/IT types frequent this place......

Basically a brand new mini PC (Beelink GTR5) with fingerprint sensor - only reads the first part of fingerprint setup for the middle of the finger - as soon as it prompts you to do the outer part, nothing, absolutely nothing.

Now, we know it's not the software (Win 11) as millions of people are using it successfully. I suppose the thing that's bugging me is how can the fingerprint sensor 'know' you're using the outer part of the finger, surely it either works or it doesn't and can't actually tell which part of the finger you're using?

Yup, I've done the whole 'update driver' thing and have reinstalled Windows from scratch twice and tried setting up Windows Hello during setup - exactly the same issue.

I suppose I'm just looking for thoughts on it, as a definitive answer is unlikely - Google basically came up with nothing for this specific issue..... Beelink support said to send it back to them.... in China! Sorry, that's not happening unless it dies a death...... it would be gone for weeks, and it would cost me £25 to send it.....
 
DekHog said:
I suppose the thing that's bugging me is how can the fingerprint sensor 'know' you're using the outer part of the finger, surely it either works or it doesn't and can't actually tell which part of the finger you're using?
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These things usually work by the driver programme calling the scanning module repeatedly, so my first guess is that the software isn't re-initialising the finger scanner module for the next pass. If so, there may be an update for this from the makers of the module, rather than the company which put the computer together. You'd need to find out who makes the module, which may not be easy unless the company you bought from is helpfull.
 
I've tested various software packages that do fingerprint sensing/recording on a variety of devices, for biometric id systems. Andrew may well be correct, but the sensors are not always good at doing the capacitive sensing on outer part of fingers, you need to make sure there is firm contact without compressing your finger too much, Sometimes the sensors just aren't good enough. Why is it rejecting or failing to proceed, and how does it recognise an outer right, outer left etc? It is looking for patterns and continuity to build a composite vector analysis of many points of interests in the fingerprint, if some vectors don't exist it will stop/error.
 
My phone has face recognition as a security option. Sometimes it simply didn't recognise me in as "normal" a state as possible but sometimes would when I was wearing mirror shades and a mask... I don't use that feature now since it appears to be as secure as a G4 van...
 
Nod said:
My phone has face recognition as a security option. Sometimes it simply didn't recognise me in as "normal" a state as possible but sometimes would when I was wearing mirror shades and a mask... I don't use that feature now since it appears to be as secure as a G4 van...
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I've had it then... nobody recognises me as normal... ;)
 
I treat "normal" as an insult!
 
I'm doing regular contracts for suppliers to HMG for the testing of biometric id systems, mainly for the HO and MoJ, so I think its something we must get used to for official interactions.
 
DekHog said:
I know, but for £800 you expect everything to work as intended.....
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It certainly has uploaded your fingerprint to their database. That was as intended.

My experience with fingerprint readers has been overwhelmingly negative and won't touch them again for the foreseeable future. Aside from my photography work I do some gardening (fun), cooking (have to eat really) and some DIY and woodwork which is paid work. And then there are some DIY car jobs like checking oil level etc. Guess what, each one of them can soil, scrape, scratch and even swell your fingers. No wonder I was locked out from using my phones scanner mere weeks after being coerced into setting it up. HSBC app changed at the same time, took over fingerrprint from Android and forced me to setup some silly PIN number at the same time. After not using PIN for 3 weeks and and FP no longer working I had to go through resetting my whole internet banking over the phone, and I shall not be getting into that mess again. And that is before we even consider what Google, Xiaomi and HSBC are now doing with my fingerprints.
 
I might think about recruiting some "subjects" on here next time we need to test an iD app!
 
make sure you retain a portion of the central part on the sensor? so the software can link the new scan with the previous one to create a single image
 
So, just to make matters even more baffling, I got a external USB fingerprint sensor - same problem! :oops: :$

Am now going to have to install Ubuntu or something to test it in another OS...... off to find out how to install a Linux distro that supports fingerprint readers alongside Win 11......

...... to anyone who's bothered about the Chinese having my fingerprint..... I don't bloody care!
 
have you tried all your fingers
 
Mr Bump said:
have you tried all your fingers
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Yup, and another two people tried a couple of theirs.... has to be some weird motherboard fault as the external sensor worked fine on a Win 10 laptop.... still debating with myself to return it for replacement of not....
 
LongLensPhotography said:
It certainly has uploaded your fingerprint to their database. That was as intended.

And that is before we even consider what Google, Xiaomi and HSBC are now doing with my fingerprints.
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Biometric data such as fingerprints are classified as personally identifying information (PII) under GDPR. PII data can only be used for the purposes that it was collected for and to which you consented - i.e. unlocking your phone.

If any of these corporations breaches that and use it for other purposes, they can be fined up to 2% of their global turnover, which is a lot of money for corporations like those. The damage to the reputation of a company like HSBC could easily cost more.

Besides, the HSBC app never has direct access to the fingerprint data. The app makes a call to the Android's Biometric Service API to request a biometric authentication test and Android returns only whether the test has passed or failed back to HSBC's app.

Moreover, biometric data is retained only on the device, in an encrypted key store which is maintained in a separate, Trusted Execution Environment. The fingerprint data is not even accessible to Android OS, only whether a test has passed or failed via Biometric Service. By design, it is not and cannot be communicated outside of that environment.

insights.samsung.com

How to use biometrics for authentication in Android

Passwords are easy to steal; faking biometrics is difficult. And unlike passwords, biometrics don't travel outside of your device.
insights.samsung.com insights.samsung.com

www.raywenderlich.com

Android Biometric API: Getting Started

Learn how to implement biometric authentication in your Android app by using the Android Biometric API to create an app that securely stores messages.
www.raywenderlich.com www.raywenderlich.com

Apple devices use a similar approach of storing biometric data keys in a separate environment - Secure Enclave, which actually runs in an independent operating system from iOS, on an independent processor, to protect the keys should the main iOS environment become compromised.

Finally, what is stored and compared on the device when you register a fingerprint is not an image of your fingerprint (or your face, etc.) but essentially a checksum. Even setting privacy issues aside, this is computationally a lot simpler to manage when a biometric test is requested.
 
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Fingerprint sensor is quite handy for quick access, although I do find it rather unreliable if my finger is contaminated (that just sounds wrong :oops: :$).But for really serious stuff, is it really that safe as you finger can be chopped off! lol Reminds me of facial recognition and a mate taking a photo of me with his phone and then using that photo to unlock my phone! haha

The biggest downside I've found to fingerprint access is that you can end up forgetting your password/pin from lack of use.

Doesn't Amazon go one step further and do palm print for payments where you just put your palm on the payment reader thingy?
 
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