Finally sorted my focus issues (Back Button Focusing!)

rampanthamster said:
back button focusing is amazing - it's totally changed my technique and improved my shots. In fact, not being able to do it properly on my old D5000 (the d5000 doesn't have a proper shutter release priority mode, so it'll only fire the shutter if it's in focus) was what made me upgrade to a d90.

So i set the ae-l button to af-on and use af-c focus and it's great.
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Thanks, I thought it was just me struggling to set it up on a d5000.
 
awp said:
also try 51pt 3D - focus point locks on and tracks the subject :thumbs:
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What kind of work do you do Andrew and who do you field your images through?
I worked on the London desk for an agency that rhymes with 'Loiters' for a while a few years back before being reassigned to their global pic desk in Singapore.
 
hi, I freelance for local press and magazines - also have some corproate PR clients. I also shoot a lot for stock and have work with eight libraries at present. Libraries are listed on my web site.
 
awp said:
hi, I freelance for local press and magazines - also have some corproate PR clients. I also shoot a lot for stock and have work with eight libraries at present. Libraries are listed on my web site.
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Thanks - I'll have a look later - off to a client meeting shortly.
 
bbf for me to all the way, much easier.
as siad put in afc mode and leave it there, and you can single point focus, or hold the rear af button and it will track, handy for everything,(think of it like a person standin there you point and focus and press shutter and get the shot, but if you had you camera set to afs and they started to run towards something your knackered, where as if you have the camera set to bbf and afc, you have no probs with either) also some camera you have to go into the menu to change from afs to afc,(how long does that take)
only downside to using bbf and leaving it on afc is that in low light the af assist on work in afs mode on middle focus point)
 
I set my 7D up for this last night so hope to get out with it today.

One thing that did spring to mind was using it for landscapes. You can BBF on something in the image that's on/close to the hyperfocal point without fear of the camera trying to reset the focus when you take the shot. Before I would switch off AF on the lens, and 9 times out of 10 forget to switch it back on again :bonk:

Also, if you have an ND filter, focus with it off, and carefully put it on :shrug:

That's two reasons and I haven't even started to think about wildlife and other uses yet. Will let you know how I get on.

Steve
 
Well today's little field-test proved it works - I'm now sold on this as my default method for image-making.

Many thanks to all of you who've been patient enough to explain matters.
 
cobra_lite said:
Well today's little field-test proved it works - I'm now sold on this as my default method for image-making.

Many thanks to all of you who've been patient enough to explain matters.
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Glad it helped :)
 
Just to add more confirmation - I used this technique at an Event last night and it's definitely a winner - I was able to get the shots far faster than my previous method of using the shutter-buttons to focus with.
As long as I remember not to move my feet, every shot is spot-on.

I'm still fumbling for the back-button occasionally, but I reckon I'm already halfway there to it being intuitive.
 
I also don't quite see how this is a massive advantage.

Focus-recompose:
Single: point, half press shutter and focus, recompose, takes ~1sec. Do the same again if missed shot.
Continuous: not possible
BBF: point, BBF, recompose, shutter, takes as long as single shot if not longer because there are two buttons and you have further to press on the shutter. If missed shot, the argument is you dont have to refocus, but if you're using wide aperture for example, I'd want to make sure of the focus and refocus on the critical point anyway?:shrug:

Moving subject:
Single: you get the first shot in focus in a burst, the rest may not be in focus
Continuous: the focus tracks the subject. If you want to stop AF (to avoid ref or whatever), lift your finger off the shutter :shrug:
BBF: as above

From above it seems the only advantage is that you get the mixture of single and continuous AF, without having to change AF mode on your camera. Am I correct?

Like someone said, I'm not trying to be an arse just trying to understand. I'll try it out tomorrow night at university football final :)

PS: I find the joystick really hard to use because I have small-ish hands. Are there easier way to select AF points on 40D?
 
Just realised, with the shutter set to exposure lock and back button for focus, you can set the exposure reference independently of the focus point. Tried shooting out of window frame, with the window frame in focus but exposing for outside or inside. This is pretty cool.
 
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RedTele said:
I also don't quite see how this is a massive advantage.
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Then you're not understaning it properly.
RedTele said:
Focus-recompose:
Single: point, half press shutter and focus, recompose, takes ~1sec. Do the same again if missed shot.
Continuous: not possible
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YES it is possible - you keep your finger on the button while you re-compose and the camera tracks the now moving subject (within the frame) and holds focus - no need to 'refocus' because you never lose focus - esp if you use 51pt 3D

RedTele said:
BBF: point, BBF, recompose, shutter, takes as long as single shot if not longer because there are two buttons and you have further to press on the shutter. If missed shot, the argument is you dont have to refocus, but if you're using wide aperture for example, I'd want to make sure of the focus and refocus on the critical point anyway?:shrug:
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see comment above!

RedTele said:
Moving subject:
Single: you get the first shot in focus in a burst, the rest may not be in focus
Continuous: the focus tracks the subject. If you want to stop AF (to avoid ref or whatever), lift your finger off the shutter :shrug:
BBF: as above

From above it seems the only advantage is that you get the mixture of single and continuous AF, without having to change AF mode on your camera. Am I correct?

Like someone said, I'm not trying to be an arse just trying to understand. I'll try it out tomorrow night at university football final :)

PS: I find the joystick really hard to use because I have small-ish hands. Are there easier way to select AF points on 40D?
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and what if you don't know if the subject is going to move or not? By the time you changed from S - to C - I'd have got the shot and gone home!

If you haven't tried it for a reasonable time - how can you comment?
 
awp said:
Then you're not understaning it properly.
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Which is why I'm asking questions. Enlighten me with logical points and I'm all up for learning something new mate.

YES it is possible - you keep your finger on the button while you re-compose and the camera tracks the now moving subject (within the frame) and holds focus - no need to 'refocus' because you never lose focus - esp if you use 51pt 3D
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Not on my camera. With AI servo selected, if I recompose (by this I mean I first used the centre point to focus, then moved the subject off-centre) the camera now tries to get whatever is in the centre in focus. Are you telling me on Nikon cameras the camera can figure out what's moving in the frame and change AF point accordingly automatically?

and what if you don't know if the subject is going to move or not? By the time you changed from S - to C - I'd have got the shot and gone home!
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So hence I said the BBF has an advantage in this respect. So I'm agreeing with you. What's your problem?

If you haven't tried it for a reasonable time - how can you comment?
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Which is why I said I'll try it out? Give me a chance. And yes, I am allowed to comment because I think the points I made are valid.
 
RedTele said:
Which is why I'm asking questions. Enlighten me with logical points and I'm all up for learning something new mate.
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There's a lot of info in this thread which should enlighten you.

RedTele said:
Not on my camera. With AI servo selected, if I recompose (by this I mean I first used the centre point to focus, then moved the subject off-centre) the camera now tries to get whatever is in the centre in focus. Are you telling me on Nikon cameras the camera can figure out what's moving in the frame and change AF point accordingly automatically?
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Yes, exactly that - on the D3 and several other Nikon bodies you can use 51pt 3D tracking which does exactly that. :)
 
Just tried to set this up on my D50.
AF-C check
BBF on check
focus acquired check
recompose, shutter....shutter.

A google shows that the D50 is focus priority release and you can't turn that off unless you turn of the AF. Rubbish.
 
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A Pro Sports Photographer at Focus on Imaging referred to it as the 'Panic' button. I discover, apparently, from this guy that many sports, well football, photographers don’t use AF, because where you have a gap between players in the middle of the frame the AF will, sooner or later refocus through the gap to whatever is on the other side usually the crowd on the other side of the pitch, so they manually focus (the good old fashioned way!!) but they use the back button in the event someone scores and comes screaming towards them without warning! How widespread it is I don’t know.
 
maninsuitcase said:
Just tried to set this up on my D50.
AF-C check
BBF on check
focus acquired check
recompose, shutter....shutter.

A google shows that the D50 is focus priority release and you can't turn that off unless you turn of the AF. Rubbish.
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well thank goodness you can't do it all with a D50 - D3 is worth the money!! :)
 
For fast moving wildlife stuff the 51pt 3d is a liability Andrew. Simply not fast enough...........:)
 
I've used it for sport and all sorts of stuff - without any problems - in fact I'd say I use it 95% of the time.
It's also very re-assuring to see the focus point move to exacty where you want it.
 
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Well i have tried it for the past few days and love it, i think am going to stick with it.
 
dracaj said:
Well i have tried it for the past few days and love it, i think am going to stick with it.
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another convert :)

are you using it with the 3d tracking focus or single point? Tis a shame the d90 only has 11 points though..
 
awp said:
well thank goodness you can't do it all with a D50 - D3 is worth the money!! :)
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You're paying then? :thumbs:

But seriously it's a crap "feature" even if the D50 was a starter SLR at the time. This is just making want a new body even more than I already do.
 
I shoot mainly marathon runners (etc) so Single point at the moment .
 
maninsuitcase said:
You're paying then? :thumbs:

But seriously it's a crap "feature" even if the D50 was a starter SLR at the time. This is just making want a new body even more than I already do.
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Works well on a D90 :)
 
rampanthamster said:
back button focusing is amazing - it's totally changed my technique and improved my shots. In fact, not being able to do it properly on my old D5000 (the d5000 doesn't have a proper shutter release priority mode, so it'll only fire the shutter if it's in focus) was what made me upgrade to a d90.

So i set the ae-l button to af-on and use af-c focus and it's great.
Click to expand...

Well, being a daft newbie with a D5000 I'm surprised at the above. If I am understanding this correctly I have managed to set up my 5000 as per this thread and I must say it is working for me. My focusing seems more precise.
Thanks to all who explained it.:thumbs:
 
Well glad to see that the theoretical "what good could possibly come out of that" slagfest has turned into a couple of people actually TRYING IT out.. :clap:

I'm a convert, have been for a while.. My wife's not. Leads to some interesting situations and some missed shots sure.. but I'll win her over :lol:
 
WillyB said:
Well, being a daft newbie with a D5000 I'm surprised at the above. If I am understanding this correctly I have managed to set up my 5000 as per this thread and I must say it is working for me. My focusing seems more precise.
Thanks to all who explained it.:thumbs:
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it KIND OF works ok, insofar as you can set the back button for af...but it's different from how it should be insofar as it will only fire the shutter if something is actually in focus.
 
rampanthamster said:
it KIND OF works ok, insofar as you can set the back button for af...but it's different from how it should be insofar as it will only fire the shutter if something is actually in focus.
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You should be able to change that ad well - but maybe not on your body. Check the manual.
 
jamin100 said:
Works well on a D90 :)
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Don't have one of those either :lol:

rampanthamster said:
it KIND OF works ok, insofar as you can set the back button for af...but it's different from how it should be insofar as it will only fire the shutter if something is actually in focus.
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I have that issue, you can't turn it off on a D50 but people with D90s have posted as it's possible in this thread so have a flick through the menus/read the manual.
 
rampanthamster said:
not possible on the d5000 afaik, looked into it a lot! :thumbsdown:
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The D5000 will fire out of focus in 'live view' but not using the viewfinder. That's what I have found anyway. So we are half way there.

Another interesting point is that using the back button for focusing the VR does not work. That only comes into play when the shutter release button is half pressed. This means that to use VR effectively one must think about it and half press the shutter release to activate the VR. It's not really a problem as it only takes a second to activate and settle. Not appropriate anyway if using a tripod.
 
WillyB said:
Another interesting point is that using the back button for focusing the VR does not work. That only comes into play when the shutter release button is half pressed. This means that to use VR effectively one must think about it and half press the shutter release to activate the VR. It's not really a problem as it only takes a second to activate and settle. Not appropriate anyway if using a tripod.
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Since you only need VR when the shutter is being operated, this makes perfect sense: correct focus is achieved using the back button, then when the photographer is ready to take the image, he presses the shutter-button which operates the VR, stabilising the lens at the moment the shutter is tripped.
 
cobra_lite said:
Since you only need VR when the shutter is being operated, this makes perfect sense: correct focus is achieved using the back button, then when the photographer is ready to take the image, he presses the shutter-button which operates the VR, stabilising the lens at the moment the shutter is tripped.
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True, but I only thought I would mention it because if you are too quick off the mark with the shutter release the VR will not have had time to do it's stuff.
 
This is confusing. When shooting action i flick the camera into AF-C, depress the shutter the first stage, it locks onto the target and follows it around the viewfinder, then press shutter fully and it will snap away.

I never use the AF-ON or the AEL buttons as my thumb wont really reach them.

So can someone explain to me what advantage i will have using them, and what i need to set them to, its a d300s and menus slightly more advanced / different to a D90.

Thanks
 
I think the advantages have been well documented in this thread!
Go to page 266 & 296 in your manual.
 
WillyB said:
True, but I only thought I would mention it because if you are too quick off the mark with the shutter release the VR will not have had time to do it's stuff.
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On a D3 using a 70-200 f/2.8 VR-II it's so fast as to be virtually instantaneous.
I checked...lol
 
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