Finally, a decision...it's DNG

[Pookeyhead]

That's the one advantage of sidecar files: No matter what horror befalls your catalogue.... you don't lose your image settings. I just hate opening a folder in windows and seeing all those xmp files!! Triggers my OCD

I'm not saying anyone should do as I do... there are risks of course.. but if you know what you're doing it can be faster doing this outside of lightroom.

 

[dejongj]

You are absolutely right, it will be faster as the checks and balances will be made by yourself. And when confident you know what you are doing then there is no issue at all.

As the saying goes, many roads lead to Rome.

Ps. Just don't look in the folders and you won't see them. Its the same in osx with aperture, there are so many supporting files, but the file system can hide them into packages.

 

[Pookeyhead]

You are absolutely right, it will be faster as the checks and balances will be made by yourself. And when confident you know what you are doing then there is no issue at all.

As the saying goes, many roads lead to Rome.

Ps. Just don't look in the folders and you won't see them. Its the same in osx with aperture, there are so many supporting files, but the file system can hide them into packages.

Sometimes opening a folder to find a raw file in windows is just easier... especially if all you want to do is drag a copy to a pen drive, or another folder. Doing that in LR is a pain.

View attachment 36891

If it was littered with sidecar files it's horrible.


View attachment 36892

 

[dejongj]

You could run a little batch file on those directories and set the file attribute to hidden? That way they are there but out of sight....That might do the trick to give best of both worlds...

 

[Pookeyhead]

You could run a little batch file on those directories and set the file attribute to hidden? That way they are there but out of sight....That might do the trick to give best of both worlds...

I know.. but may need to copy the XMP file with it one day too... which mean unhiding etc. Basically.. using the LR catalogue is just more elegant.

There are advantages to both... whichever suits you I suppose

 

[Brian G]

This has been a very useful discussion. Upon reflection I might actually stick with the original raw files and start using the side cars.

It tend to perform incremental backups and I don't want the full raw file backed up several times. It helped me realise what the issues is.

But yes I find it much less risky to move my folders around within lightroom opposed to messing about with then outside the awareness of the catalog.

PC or MAC?
On a PC I use Microsoft "Sync Toy" for my backups to external drives.
Very simple and straightforward to use, and it can be configured in a number of ways for incremental backups.

 

[dejongj]

Pc. Point being that if the sidecar is stored within the raw, then each little change changes the whole raw file. Thus you'll need loads more backup storage.

 

[Brian G]

Pc. Point being that if the sidecar is stored within the raw, then each little change changes the whole raw file. Thus you'll need loads more backup storage.

My raw files are typically 20 -24MB and the xmp sidecars are never more than 10KB and are typically around 4KB, which is virtually insignificant.
I'd assume that embedded xmp would only change the raw file size by a similar amount, so you don't need "loads more backup storage."

 

[dejongj]

My raw files are typically 20 -24MB and the xmp sidecars are never more than 10KB and are typically around 4KB, which is virtually insignificant.
I'd assume that embedded xmp would only change the raw file size by a similar amount, so you don't need "loads more backup storage."

Ahum, the raw file change. The DNG file changes...Unless sync toys decomposes the RAW file and dynamically only extracts the embedded sidecar and then dynamically embeds it into the backup copy, you'll find that that 10kb change causes a 20-24MB addition to your backup That is exactly my point, if the sidecar remains separate as a file, it will only see the sidecar file as changed and only copy the 10KB file....

 

[Brian G]

Sorry, I'm afraid I don't understand what you mean.
Of course the file will change, but an Incremental Backup will overwrite the changed file, not create a new 20MB file, that's the whole point.
It will only be a new file if you change the file name, my backup files occupy the same disk space as their originals.
Academic really, since I work with xmp sidecars, not dng files.

 

[dejongj]

Sorry, I'm afraid I don't understand what you mean.
Of course the file will change, but an Incremental Backup will overwrite the changed file, not create a new 20MB file, that's the whole point.
It will only be a new file if you change the file name, my backup files occupy the same disk space as their originals.
Academic really, since I work with xmp sidecars, not dng files.

I don't let my backups overwrite, I don't think that is good practise at all. But yes you do understand, the full 20MB get read, transferred, written etc...It's additional storage, network utilisation etc....Gets even worse if you use any cloud based mechanisms.....But overwriting the existing backup I really wouldn't like that....Currently I do that 12 months on....

 

[Brian G]

I don't let my backups overwrite, I don't think that is good practise at all. But yes you do understand, the full 20MB get read, transferred, written etc...It's additional storage, network utilisation etc....Gets even worse if you use any cloud based mechanisms.....But overwriting the existing backup I really wouldn't like that....Currently I do that 12 months on....

We obviously have different ideas as to what constitutes a "backup."

As long as my original, out of camera raws are available, that's all I need, and by keeping to sidecar files, the xmp data is the only thing that gets overwritten, the .CR2 file is untouched.

 

[Pookeyhead]

I don't let my backups overwrite,

So if a file changes it won't get backed up? Or do you mean you make a full back up every time, and keep them all? Either way is crazy as the first example isn't really back up at all, and the second will chew through disk space like there's no tomorrow. The idea is to use incremental back ups, so you only have one master back up, then after that, only changes are backed up. If you let that run a fair while before you tell it to reset with a new master copy, then you can drop into that archive at any point in time to recover old stuff.. even stuff that's been written over in later back ups.

I run a 2 week rotation on incremental back up sets... so if I realise something has gone wrong I have 2 weeks to sort it. You can decide how many increments you record before writing a new full back up and starting again. The longer you leave it, the larger your backup set will become though. It will still be smaller than keeping a set of full backups though.

Not sure if your software does this, but Acronis True Image, what I use here, has almost limitless ways to set incremental back ups.

Plus... if you did a decent back up of your system, not just your images, then you'll have full back ups of your lightroom catalogue too.

Just back up the whole damned machine... easier, and less downtime should something go wrong.

 

[dejongj]

Definitely backing up the whole machine. It is additive and incremental on a daily basis with separate sets to keep weeks and monthly points where I do the same. And stored offsite.

 

[Deleted member 49549]

That's not showing anything not already discussed.

I do not move files in Lightroom.. nor am I going to start doing so. I manage all files in Windows... because I find it easier. After being sorted, moved, or re-arranged, I will re-sync. It works. Simple as.

You don't have to OBEY the lady in that tutorial you know. That's not the only way to manage your files. I find it easier to manage files in Windows, and re-sync, than I do managing files in Lightroom... which is a actually a pain in the ass. As a file management system... Lightroom blows.

Just a note that if you do move a file outside of lightroom that is already included in the lightroom catalogue, you will lose any virtual copies and snapshots you may have created.