Filming a school concert (on behalf of school)

[markrichardson]

The usual guy (very amateur) who films the school concert for my wife's school is unavailable due to illness. The quality of what he produces is pretty low (pretty much the standard of a typical home video) so I feel that I should be able to at last match that standard, but I'm not so familiar with video equipment and technique.

The event happens in a theatre rather than the school building. There is minimal budget so paying a professional is out.

My question is what is the minimum equipment with which I could film an hour and a half performance? I could potentially take a sound feed from the stage microphones so that's less of an issue (I broadly understand sound and PA systems)

I was thinking one (rented) fixed camera filming the whole stage area, and one camera I am holding for focusing on specific areas of the stage. Or possibly two fixed cameras (one showing full stage, one zoomed on centre stage) plus a handheld for specifics. But that might be too complex?

I have a 5d mk II which I could use for some video but clearly couldn't use it as a main camera for continuous shooting of the whole event.

Thoughts would be very welcome - both on approaches I could take and whether appropriate equipment is easily and cheaply available for renting in the Newcastle area.

 

[markrichardson]

I should have also said that I have done some basic video editing previously so I feel I could do an acceptable job on that front.

 

[artyman]

I think the thing to remember is sound is probably the most important element in this type of shoot. As long as you have footage to edit, ie cut shots so it doesn't become a boring one view production. You sound as though you have a grasp on things.

 

[markrichardson]

I have done some basic video editing previously so I feel I could do an acceptable job on that front.

Hmmm...repeated what I said and then was banned... odd!

 

[itsdavedotnet]

I think the thing to remember is sound is probably the most important element in this type of shoot. As long as you have footage to edit, ie cut shots so it doesn't become a boring one view production. You sound as though you have a grasp on things.

Logistics and knowing what you're doing is key.

I've done a lot of this kind of work, conferences, performances etc, all has essentially the same basic requirements.

Two or three cameras. Three cameras and two operators is ideal.

Budget shouldn't be a huge issue tbh, sell DVDs to the parents for £15 a pop, job done.

Set up one at the rear and lock it off.

If you've got only one other camera, have it midway or so down the hall - you want to be able to get a full wide, but also zoom right in to get a tight one shot.

If you've got two others, have one at the back, and one quite a bit closer to the stage. Access and not blocking fire escapes, walkways or people's view is often a problem.

Sound, I only ever worked with three cameras, so our sound setup would be:

TWO mono sum outputs from the PA desk, one into each of the rear cameras.
ambient mic on the locked off rear cameras as a '**** hits the fan' backup
two shotgun mics in front of the stage, facing diagonally across the stage. Ideally, one into the operated rear camera, and one into the operated close camera.
This way ensures that you've got absolute sound backups whatever happens to the cameras (eg if you need to change media etc).
Putting a zoom recorder up with another audio out from the mixer wouldn't hurt either...

Check and balance your exposure and whitebalance between cameras a good time before the show starts and lock them off. Using identical / similar cameras makes this easier.

If shooting to tape, or using multiple media cards per camera, have them pre-marked up and ready to go.

2 way radios are useful to have.

Don't use your 5D unless you really have to, and obviously never as the master rear locked off shot (12min limit). Make sure and have written down by every camera what your settings are - ie 25p 1080 etc... to save nightmares in post.


You really need to think about your shots too - how long to stay on something happening, and just generally remaining broadcastable all the time - but you can crash zoom in or whatever to quickly get to some key piece of action - but don't forget that you'll want to cut to another angle for longer than that crash zoom. You only really get a proper sense of this once you've edited a few imo.

In terms of edit, first of all, it's a lot of storage, so have two hard drives (backup!) to offload the data to. Editing's easy, line up the start points (manually or with pluraleyes), make a multiclip, and then you can just grab a beer and sit there 'vision mixing' the show. Nice and simple.


Little stuff that you'll need - black clothing, gaffer tape, torch, lots of XLR and jack adapters (some sound desks have xlr outs, others 6.35mm jacks, etc). Seriously long XLR cables, mic stands. A wireless kit or two can make life easier and give you more options with sound. Sharpies for marking media/tapes up, more batteries than you think you'll need, cable ties, decent tripods are key, take quiet snacks / drinks as they can go on. Earplugs for if a camera operator's best position is right in front of / near a speaker. Way more recording media than you expect you'll need - these things can often go on for a bit, and if you're shooting the last show (as you often are...) then there'll be all of the thanks and flowers for the teachers etc too. Plan carefully how much recording media you need, and add a -very- generous margin for error.

If shooting to tape, or un-hotswoppable digital media, then you need to sort out a way to stagger your changeovers - whether by hand signal or text message to the other operator, or pre-set times, or what. Again, radios/talkback can be useful here, if only to know when you're down to 2 cameras so have to stay broadcastable on both.



Not aware of rental places in newcastle I'm afraid, though I would have thought that there would be somewhere that can rent a couple of sony EX1 / canon XF300 type cameras and appropriate media.

 

[markrichardson]

Thanks - that's an incredibly detailed post!

As far as I'm aware, there isn't a second shooter - certainly not anyone I'm aware of that knows how to wield a camera or I wouldn't be considering doing it. (It's a pretty small school in an old mining town). What would you suggest for a one person set up?

Your suggestion not to use the 5D - is that because there would be a substantially different look to the that video to, say a Canon XF300? Clearly the quality of a 5D is up to scratch (if it's good enough for House...) I had thought using that as a handheld to get close up shots while having locked cameras on centre stage and on full stage would have been sensible.

Unless I've misunderstood - which is possible - you seem to have an output from the mixer and a shotgun mic both feeding into the same camera. Is that necessary? (The general stage sound is picked up by overhead mics anyway - I guess that would replace the need for the shotguns. Or possibly you're using the shotguns as a backup option for the sound in case the digital recorder at the mixer fails?)

Your comment about selling the DVDs is a sensible one - but the school uses that income (even on the previous years' shoddy effort) to subsidise the cost of the event, although it should be able to cover rental costs too I hope.

 

[markrichardson]

One last question - will an XF300 type camera be able to shoot a whole half of the event (45 mins to an hour) on a single card? Seems unlikely to me. So am I better off getting one that shoots to tape?

 

[itsdavedotnet]

Unless I've misunderstood - which is possible - you seem to have an output from the mixer and a shotgun mic both feeding into the same camera. Is that necessary? (The general stage sound is picked up by overhead mics anyway - I guess that would replace the need for the shotguns. Or possibly you're using the shotguns as a backup option for the sound in case the digital recorder at the mixer fails?)

shotguns for us were primarily in case the feed from the mixer sucked! or for main sound when the event wasn't mic'd.

Depends on the size of the card and they've got two slots too. Can't remember off the top of my head how much data the xf cameras eat up every minute - quite a bit though. Most rental places will probably include 2x 32gb cards. Tape does in some ways simplify the workflow / costs, though you will then have to capture the footage (in real time!), buy the tapes, and put up with the horrendous HDV codec (as opposed to the nice 4:2:2 files out the back of the xf300)

Hmm, I'm prejudice against dslrs for this kind of thing (and in general...) tbh. Couple of downsides are the 12min limit, so you'll either have lots of syncing up to do, or just use pluraleyes + hope. Pants connectivity is another downside, and you can't really get a smooth zoom in/out with standard eos lenses without putting follow focus etc on it. etc etc. But yes, in reality, it will probably be ok and look fine, just make sure to balance the cameras / exposure beforehand, and also test your post workflow in advance.

Other downside of slrs is maintaining a usable shot - especially seeing as it's just you and the rear master shot - just think about how the end video is going to look, every time that your slr shot isn't perfect (ie looking at something interesting / etc, isn't in focus etc) then you're going to have to sit on the rear shot. Of course, if you can borrow another HD camcorder and put it to give you another (albeit fixed angle) shot then you'll make the end product more interesting to watch. (but remember not to break 30)

Oh, and while it's operated, please, please put it on a really good, heavy tripod. Borrow an extra one the same as the one that comes with the XF300
You said hand held - it HURTS to do that with a real camera for 45 minutes constantly, let alone a dslr!


Oh yeah, minor practical note, if working on your own, make sure that the tally light on the xf300 is on, so that you can see for peace of mind that it's recording! Have the remote control for it next to you. ALso, be 100% sure there's enough cards in it, as you don't want to be running up or down or having to attend to it - you're busy operating the front camera!

Don't rely on being able to back up all 32gb of the card during the interval - last thing you want to be doing, a 20min interval quickly becomes 15mins once you've waited for the crowd to disperse to the lobby etc etc, and also you won't want to delete data onsite anyway. Rent enough cards to do the whole thing, and then some.

 

[Dangleman]

Logistics and knowing what you're doing is key.

I've done a lot of this kind of work, conferences, performances etc, all has essentially the same basic requirements.

Two or three cameras. Three cameras and two operators is ideal.

Budget shouldn't be a huge issue tbh, sell DVDs to the parents for £15 a pop, job done.

Set up one at the rear and lock it off.

If you've got only one other camera, have it midway or so down the hall - you want to be able to get a full wide, but also zoom right in to get a tight one shot.

If you've got two others, have one at the back, and one quite a bit closer to the stage. Access and not blocking fire escapes, walkways or people's view is often a problem.

Sound, I only ever worked with three cameras, so our sound setup would be:

TWO mono sum outputs from the PA desk, one into each of the rear cameras.
ambient mic on the locked off rear cameras as a '**** hits the fan' backup
two shotgun mics in front of the stage, facing diagonally across the stage. Ideally, one into the operated rear camera, and one into the operated close camera.
This way ensures that you've got absolute sound backups whatever happens to the cameras (eg if you need to change media etc).
Putting a zoom recorder up with another audio out from the mixer wouldn't hurt either...

Check and balance your exposure and whitebalance between cameras a good time before the show starts and lock them off. Using identical / similar cameras makes this easier.

If shooting to tape, or using multiple media cards per camera, have them pre-marked up and ready to go.

2 way radios are useful to have.

Don't use your 5D unless you really have to, and obviously never as the master rear locked off shot (12min limit). Make sure and have written down by every camera what your settings are - ie 25p 1080 etc... to save nightmares in post.

You really need to think about your shots too - how long to stay on something happening, and just generally remaining broadcastable all the time - but you can crash zoom in or whatever to quickly get to some key piece of action - but don't forget that you'll want to cut to another angle for longer than that crash zoom. You only really get a proper sense of this once you've edited a few imo.

In terms of edit, first of all, it's a lot of storage, so have two hard drives (backup!) to offload the data to. Editing's easy, line up the start points (manually or with pluraleyes), make a multiclip, and then you can just grab a beer and sit there 'vision mixing' the show. Nice and simple.

Little stuff that you'll need - black clothing, gaffer tape, torch, lots of XLR and jack adapters (some sound desks have xlr outs, others 6.35mm jacks, etc). Seriously long XLR cables, mic stands. A wireless kit or two can make life easier and give you more options with sound. Sharpies for marking media/tapes up, more batteries than you think you'll need, cable ties, decent tripods are key, take quiet snacks / drinks as they can go on. Earplugs for if a camera operator's best position is right in front of / near a speaker. Way more recording media than you expect you'll need - these things can often go on for a bit, and if you're shooting the last show (as you often are...) then there'll be all of the thanks and flowers for the teachers etc too. Plan carefully how much recording media you need, and add a -very- generous margin for error.

If shooting to tape, or un-hotswoppable digital media, then you need to sort out a way to stagger your changeovers - whether by hand signal or text message to the other operator, or pre-set times, or what. Again, radios/talkback can be useful here, if only to know when you're down to 2 cameras so have to stay broadcastable on both.

Not aware of rental places in newcastle I'm afraid, though I would have thought that there would be somewhere that can rent a couple of sony EX1 / canon XF300 type cameras and appropriate media.

Great post there Dave! Should be enough to put anyone off even thinking about shooting this type of thing

 

[markrichardson]

Great post there Dave! Should be enough to put anyone off even thinking about shooting this type of thing

Indeed - sadly I'm often a glutton for punishment (well that and the challenge of trying to get something of a reasonable standard).

I'm buoyed by the fact that the previous effort was so poor (on camcorder mic for sound, single camera feed, no sensible framing, no editing to speak of) that I feel whatever I do should be better in comparison!

Thanks for the answers to my questions - some more stuff to consider! I may be back with more questions!

Still looking for a North East based rental firm if anyone else has any recommendations!

 

[lakeland]

Wow, what incredibly detailed and informative posts.

What sort of positions would you record from? For example, the camera at the rear, would that be dead centre, off centre or in the corner? Where would the other two cameras be in an ideal world?

 

[itsdavedotnet]

Wow, what incredibly detailed and informative posts.

What sort of positions would you record from? For example, the camera at the rear, would that be dead centre, off centre or in the corner? Where would the other two cameras be in an ideal world?

Ideally, master shot dead centre at the back. Occasionally you can't get this for a number of reasons, eg if they're fully sold out. Mention that you need to take out those back 2 seats when negotiating the job. Problem with putting the camera there is you have no access between breaks / the start or finish.

Other cameras : varies really, depends on the event. Conferences etc, I like to have one long shot that can get a one-shot from relatively far back, ideally head and shoulders of the speaker at the lectern. Dance shows, one camera that can get a decent one shot, and one that can go from wide and can get in on details (feet etc)

Personally, ideally, I'd have a few gopro's and other cameras floating about, but hey, I'm a junkie

 

[markrichardson]

Just wanted to post again and say thanks to Dave for his insights. Hopefully they will be of use to others as it turns out after my research that the school doesn't want to pay the £160 for hiring equipment due to budget constraints.

I'm now left with the option of the school's consumer camcorder (which as yet is unidentified - my wife's meant to be bringing it home tonight) or my 5d Mark II. There will likely be enough gaps while kids move around etc for me to be able to work around the recording limits and change cards - but severely restricts any creative options as I'll need to be 'broadcastable' for the entire time on the camera.

Sound is an even bigger problem - don't have anything to record sound short of trying to persuade the sound engineer to cobble together an output into my Macbook Pro!

The school has very low expectations and precedent - it's mostly my standards I'm worried about!

 

[lakeland]

Any half decent sound desk will have a record out, usually phono. If not, there will be a way of creating an output for you to record from.

Have you tried asking for less money from the school? There will be money from tickets and there will be a budget of some form. I would try requesting a little less money for say just the one camera, and then use your 5d to do the close ups as your 5d will only record short clips.

If you need any more help from the audio side feel free to ask as I'll be able to help with that.

 

[markrichardson]

Just realised the theatre has its technical equipment listed, so found out that the desk has both digital and analogue recording outputs so that shouldn't be a problem. Would still prefer to have a Zoom but can get by with Audacity (assuming that the techie from the theatre is happy to do that).

I gave options for one camera and two cameras but no go - the money from ticket sales etc is used to pay for the theatre booking. (As I think I've said, their priority is just getting a record - any virtually anything will be better quality than previous years!)

 

[markrichardson]

Well the concert was last night - and proved a very steep learning curve!

In the end I shot with a hacked GH2 as a master long shot and a 5d Mark II with a 70-200 on a fluid head. Thought it might be helpful for me to share some of what I learned (although I'm sure I'll learn a lot more when I edit it!):

• Preparation is key - if I do something like this again I'll definitely go all out to attend a rehearsal. Trying to guess where people are going to move is challenging!
• Theatres are dark and theatre lighting is not so bright - I was struggling even at iso3200.
• Don't make assumptions about the venue - I'd assumed there would be somewhere central to have at least my long shot camera set up. As it turns out I had to shoot from a significantly off-centre position from behind the back row (every seat was filled so no flexibility) (Also shooting from an angle meant that horizantal panning across the stage was pretty tricky!)
• More thought before hand about different shots would have helped - e.g. for the school choir I didn't really have any ideas for shots other than close ups of sections of the choir or panning across them
• Don't rely on the staff there - I arrived to discover that the request I'd made in advance to take an audio out from the mixer was ignored and wasn't possible on the night because he'd (inexplicably) used a portable mixer instead of the main theatre mixer. Having said that I run the PA for my Church and I'm confident I'd have done a better job than he did with the sound.
• Shooting video is tougher than I expected - especially with kit not designed for the job and kit borrowed/bought for the occasion that I had limited time for practice with. I dropped focus and messed up panning a few times - there might be more cuts to the long shot I would like in the final edit!
• Don't trust your wife when she says it will last no more than 2 hours - the extra 50 minutes meant I was sailing pretty close to the wind in terms of CF cards fast enough for video.
• A 5D Mark II gets very warm when you shoot video for nearly 3 hours!

My impression from what I saw as I filmed is that I'm going to fail to reach my standards but at the very least meet the school's expectations.