Film Washing & Use Of Squeegee

compulsivehordr

compulsivehordr

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Always used a squeegee after processing a film, usually with a rinse aid, before hanging to dry. Before using the squeegee I warm the rubber under the hot tap and clean it. Despite this, I often get the dreaded scratches, sometimes they are short, sometimes the whole film. Buying a new squeegee sometimes helps, sometimes it is worse. I did try not squeegeeing today but not surprisingly got a few drying marks / blobs / mystery lumps of cack. (Presumably the cack causes the scratches.) Should I be using distilled water for the final rinse? And if so, is one distilled rinse enough? And where is the best place to get gallons of distilled water? :help:
 
I never squeegee, and I never get drying marks (and I'm in London as well, with our ridiculously hard water). I use rinse aid as well, Fotospeed RA50 (although they are all basically expensive Fairy liquid marketed for film use!), and that's the point of rinse aid - it isn't meant to leave any drying marks, if used correctly.

As my final developing step, I add water to cover the film, put the required amount of rinse aid into the water, and then pull the reel out. Sometimes there is the occasional drying mark on 35mm - if I'm doing a lot of 35mm, I'll use de-ionised water instead of tap water for the same process.

Feel free to interrogate me about any of the minutiae of my developing process :thumbs:
 
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I prefer to leave them to dry without a rinse aid wash then clean them after with a dab of Isopropyl Alcohol on a microfibre cloth. :thumbs:
 
I use purified water for the final rinse with a wetting agent and never use a squeegee. I also try to hang the film diagonally so that any water will accumulate at the edge away from the image.

I said "purified water" because there are three ways of purifying water, only one of which is distillation. If you specifically want distilled water, you buy "water for injections". I buy from a local chemist - but note that I've discovered that there are chemists and chemists - some charge at twice the rate of others.
 
I also live in a hard water area.

I have never used a squeegee and have never had any drying marks.

After the final wash I refill the tank with a tap water and Kodak photo-flo mix and then dunk the film back in for a munute or so. The film is then hung up in the shower and left until dry.
 
Does anyone know if there is any advantage in using distilled water rather than deionised water?

Deionised water seems much easier to buy and is cheaper (eg. Halfords) than distilled water.
 
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In simple terms, "distilled water" is water with nothing added (apart from dssolved gases); "deionised" water has had inorganic chemicals removed, and "water for injections" has had inorganic and organic matter removed.

For washing purposes, no real difference.
 
Brilliant! Thanks folks, loads of valuable info. I suspect that I am using the wrong concentration of RA50 - how many drops for a single Jobo tank? Will defo be trying the 45º drying, tho not sure how to it yet, and Rob's Alcohol Rub will presumably help remove the blobs that I already have. Distilled or Deionised tho? Which is cheaper? :thumbs:
 
Labelling may matter. If you buy "Purified Water" the purification method isn't specidied, but it has to be distilled, deionised, or resin exchange. So you might get distilled... In theory, distillation is the most expensive option, so my guess is that deionised will cost less.

I've found that local chemists can usually get in the 5 litre containers next day, if they don't have them in stock. And a friendly pharmacist can probably advise on the cheapest option.

Hardware shops and car spares places probably have deionised water on the shelves for topping up batteries etc.
 
Missed the angled drying. Try a film clip at each end, but with the bottom also supported along the line to tilt the film. I usually use 5x4 sheet film, so hanging by a corner works for me; and the shortish length of 120 film makes it possible to hang from one corner and weight the opposite one. 35mm film will need a couple of supports - but it's years since I processed 35mm.
 
compulsivehordr said:
I suspect that I am using the wrong concentration of RA50 - how many drops for a single Jobo tank?
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The recommended dilution for RA50 is 1+200, the same as the Kodak Photo-flo that I use. I make up a litre bottle of the mix and this will last for around 30 films.
 
compulsivehordr said:
Brilliant! Thanks folks, loads of valuable info. I suspect that I am using the wrong concentration of RA50 - how many drops for a single Jobo tank?
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If you are processing one roll of 35mm in a 1510 tank using rotation agitation (i.e. in a Jobo processor), you need 0.7mL. If you are processing one roll of 120 in a 1520 tank using rotation agitation, you need 1.2mL.

I use a Paterson Super System 4 tank - 1.5mL for 35mm roll, and 2.5mL for 120 roll.

wickerman said:
The recommended dilution for RA50 is 1+200, the same as the Kodak Photo-flo that I use. I make up a litre bottle of the mix and this will last for around 30 films.
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I didn't know it was re-usable! That said, I do like to dump it just so there isn't too much crud build up in the mix. Per roll, the rinse aid costs about 2.5p so I'm not too concerned about using it "one shot".
 
Well I can only add:- that you shouldn't use anything on a film if there is the chance that it could scratch it....mind you I know of people that used to use their fingers to remove excess water, but I suppose these people never did any rough work or sports and had tender fingers :)
 
The theory behind using your fingers is that you'd feel any bits of grit and stop; with a squeegee you don't feel anything.
 
freecom2 said:
I didn't know it was re-usable! That said, I do like to dump it just so there isn't too much crud build up in the mix. Per roll, the rinse aid costs about 2.5p so I'm not too concerned about using it "one shot".
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I have only been doing my own developing for around a year and the website that I found instructions on developing suggested reusing Photo-flo so I have never really questioned it.

However, I have just read on the Ilford site that they recommend a shelf life of 7 days for a mix of their working solution. With this in mind I think in future I'll ditch mine after 7 days.
 
I'm plagued with water marks on my negatives, I think I need to re-clean with alcohol afterwards. So far, photoshop has been my saviour in removing spots!
 
mothdust said:
I'm plagued with water marks on my negatives, I think I need to re-clean with alcohol afterwards. So far, photoshop has been my saviour in removing spots!
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If you plan to use isopropyl alcohol it's a good idea to buy the 99.9% pure stuff or you will be left with a residue on your negs after it evaporates away.
 
mothdust said:
I'm plagued with water marks on my negatives, I think I need to re-clean with alcohol afterwards. So far, photoshop has been my saviour in removing spots!
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You are also in a hard water area - what are your final steps at the end of developing?
 
mothdust said:
I'm plagued with water marks on my negatives, I think I need to re-clean with alcohol afterwards. So far, photoshop has been my saviour in removing spots!
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Do you use tap water for your final wash/rinse, and do you use a hardening fixer?
 
Missed freecom2's post. You could also try Drysonal (I just checked and it seems to be available). It's basically alcohol - wash the water off in it, and hang to dry.

The ultimate fast dry has to be the one I've seen mentioned in countless books, but never had the nerve to try (or is it have enough common sense not to?) - rinse in meths and ignite. The meths burns off and dries the film without harming it. I wouldn't try this at home :)
 
StephenM said:
The ultimate fast dry has to be the one I've seen mentioned in countless books, but never had the nerve to try (or is it have enough common sense not to?) - rinse in meths and ignite. The meths burns off and dries the film without harming it. I wouldn't try this at home :)
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What? Ooooh yes. Gotta try this one. I have plenty of gash film to give it a go. On the spiral? Hanging Vertically? Horizontally?What can possibly go wrong? :lol:
 
Well, I don't have a burning desire to try it. Don't flame me if it doesn't work:lol:

In principle, it's just an extremely rapid evaporation.

As in all methods, it's going to depend on there being nothing in the final rinse/on the film that will leave a residue when evaporated.
 
StephenM said:
The ultimate fast dry has to be the one I've seen mentioned in countless books, but never had the nerve to try (or is it have enough common sense not to?) - rinse in meths and ignite. The meths burns off and dries the film without harming it. I wouldn't try this at home :)
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Hi, This is something we used to do with Bromide prints (not resin coated) many moons ago when we used to take proof prints back to a wedding reception. It used to dry them very quickly but I've never heard of it done with film.

Most of the hair on the back of my hands and wrists has now grown again.:)
 
I needed some more water so I'm just back from Halfords, 5l of deionised water is £3.99.

Alastair...it might be a good idea if you get a few extra bottles if you are going to try the meths method :):)
 
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G.K.Jnr. said:
Hi, This is something we used to do with Bromide prints (not resin coated) many moons ago when we used to take proof prints back to a wedding reception. It used to dry them very quickly but I've never heard of it done with film.

Most of the hair on the back of my hands and wrists has now grown again.:)
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On prints, I have heard of non RC prints being dried in a microwave, so there's another hair raising scheme to try.

I've seen the film burning method listed, but never so far as I can recall by anyone who claimed to have actually tried it. Experience in chemistry labs makes me unwilling to attempt it personally (I have a degree in chemistry).

David - thanks for the tip about Halfords.
 
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Anyone tried panel wipe for cleaning? I live in soft water area, flick as much excess water off the strip as possible, don't squeegee and yet I still get all manner of awful marks on my home dev negs. I've been reluctant to wipe them with anything for fear of scratching but water marks are starting to annoy the hell out of me!
 
water that has been filtered though a ceramic filter will not scratch the film.
It should be used for mixing as well. as particles in dev or fix can become attached to the soft emulsion.
So it is not only wash water that is problematic. Photoflow or the like shold drain the film evenly with out watermarks even without a squeegee.

I have developed many thousands of films with out any problems.
 
I squeegee. Pretty happy so far....even if I'm in a minority...
 
So.. Spud and me tried the Meths Accelerated Drying method. Lots of fun, but the film came out a bit crispy.. :lol:

 
compulsivehordr said:
So.. Spud and me tried the Meths Accelerated Drying method. Lots of fun, but the film came out a bit crispy.. :lol:

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:lol::lol::lol:

You beat me to it, I was going to try this but it was raining outside.

I have read that some people just dunk the film in meths and then let it air dry. Might try that.
 
That's excellent - but you haven't said if there were any drying marks :)

A purer form of alcohol might be better than meths. Drysonal is said to be isopropyl alcohol, although I haven't looked on the label of mine to see.
 
I've got some 99% methanol in the garage, I could try that. Nasty stuff though as it burns without a visable flame.
 
compulsivehordr said:
Ah.. that's cos it's a dose. Mix it with some vermouth, ice and an olive, and it's a Martini. Diff'rent thing altogether.. :gag:
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:lol::lol:

10mL can cause blindness by destroying the optic nerve...probably improve my photography no end..:)
 
I'm also in an area with ridiculously hard water; I usually develop with Halfords water (the filtered deionised stuff) though I've had the same results using the water produced by our dehumidifier (it's basically distilled water after all).

I wash with tap water for about a minute, then put a drop of washing-up liquid in and wash until the bubbles stop coming out. Hang up the negs and squeegee with my fingers. Never noticed drying marks on the negs :)
 
A common cause of drying marks , is checking the film before the clips are dry. Good clips like the kodak metal ones drain and dry very quickly. Others hold some in the mechanism and grips.
When you move the semi dry film, drips go down the film. it is slow drying drips that cause the problem.
 
compulsivehordr said:
So.. Spud and me tried the Meths Accelerated Drying method. Lots of fun, but the film came out a bit crispy.. :lol:

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Hi, I did say that I'd never heard of it being done with film.:)
 
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