Film Photographer of the Year 2019 (FPOTY 19) thoughts and ideas: Poll added

[Andysnap]

So, we can remove more of the least popular suggestions during the initial cull. That isn't a problem. I'm hoping that there will be an obvious cut-off point once the poll has closed and the results are visible. However, in my opinion, the process followed and the results that it aimed to achieve was sound.

I agree. I think this years themes were both challenging and interesting in equal part and I for one have enjoyed taking part, lets not over complicate a system that works. It's going to be difficult enough for Jan to find the time to make sure the competition runs smoothly without adding complications right from the gecko D) and I don't need a stressed wife thank you very much.

 

[Mr Badger]

Snip:

So, we can remove more of the least popular suggestions during the initial cull.

Yes, that would make sense if we're going to have a poll and a draw, particularly if people try to vote for a good variety of topics (including some that are outside their comfort zone).

 

[Andysnap]

Snip:
Yes, that would make sense if we're going to have a poll and a draw, particularly if people try to vote for a good variety of topics (including some that are outside their comfort zone).

When we did this in 2017 (I think) we ended up with 12 themes that were not even a bit challenging, bridges, churches, landscapes etc. I much prefer a challenge, something that needs a little thought and I would definitely vote for the more out there suggestions rather than the norm.

 

[sirch]

I much prefer a challenge, something that needs a little thought and I would definitely vote for the more out there suggestions rather than the norm.

 

[Mr Badger]

I agree. I think this years themes were both challenging and interesting in equal part and I for one have enjoyed taking part, lets not over complicate a system that works. It's going to be difficult enough for Jan to find the time to make sure the competition runs smoothly without adding complications right from the gecko D) and I don't need a stressed wife thank you very much.

Don't worry, I was suggesting we simplified it by binning either the vote or the draw, which would have made for less organisation. Tell you what, how about doing the vote (using the undrawn themes from last year, including up to three suggestions each from anyone who didn't suggest themes last time) and then see how the top 12 look? If there's a good mix then go with those, if not, then revert to the sorting hat for the top 75% from the poll?

 

[excalibur2]

When we did this in 2017 (I think) we ended up with 12 themes that were not even a bit challenging, bridges, churches, landscapes etc. I much prefer a challenge, something that needs a little thought and I would definitely vote for the more out there suggestions rather than the norm.

Ah Andy you are forgetting the object is to produce a winner even from easy subjects.....but carry on guys as I don't mind hard or easy, erm but hate street shooting where people are involved and hope that doesn't come out of the hat.

 

[Mrs Snap]

Ah Andy you are forgetting the object is to produce a winner even from easy subjects.....but carry on guys as I don't mind hard or easy, erm but hate street shooting where people are involved and hope that doesn't come out of the hat.

You're okay Brian, that is this month's theme so definitely won't be in the hat for next year.

 

[Harlequin565]

I've got a bag of themes for my students. Some easy, some complete stinkers. Still got the excel sheet ready for cutting out if you want it Janet. 180 themes on there. You could take what you like & leave the rest.

 

[Mr Badger]

I've got a bag of themes for my students. Some easy, some complete stinkers. Still got the excel sheet ready for cutting out if you want it Janet. 180 themes on there. You could take what you like & leave the rest.

How about we keep that in reserve until 2020, as we seem to have plenty left from last year and it would be a shame not to make good use of those first?

 

[excalibur2]

Something more difficult? Well I don't think a moon shot has been mentioned for any challenge (old or new), guys with compacts could still enter with a shot of the moon in the scene and if you want to practice (I'm going to do anyway) a full moon will be starting on Oct 24th about 5:45 and next convenient one is 22nd Dec 17:48.

 

[dmb]

Something more difficult? Well I don't think a moon shot has been mentioned for any challenge (old or new), guys with compacts could still enter with a shot of the moon in the scene and if you want to practice (I'm going to do anyway) a full moon will be starting on Oct 24th about 5:45 and next convenient one is 22nd Dec 17:48.

Noooo! We might end up seeing more of @Andysnap than even @Mrs Snap wants to.

 

[Andysnap]

Noooo! We might end up seeing more of @Andysnap than even @Mrs Snap wants to.

Oi! a little more decorum if you don't mind. My shapely (and petite) posterior will be covered at all appropriate times.

 

[Mrs Snap]

I've got a bag of themes for my students. Some easy, some complete stinkers. Still got the excel sheet ready for cutting out if you want it Janet. 180 themes on there. You could take what you like & leave the rest.

Thanks for the offer Ian. We have some from last year to start us off. However, as you're someone who has entered this year but wasn't involved in the theme selection, please feel free to submit a couple of them for inclusion.

 

[Mrs Snap]

@sirch @Carl Hall @Peter B @Fraser Euan White @Slyelessar @Hallsy @raathistle @gunnar @Quendil @Harlequin565 @FruitFlakes

You have all entered the Film Photographer of the Year (FPOTY) 2018 competition at least once, but didn't suggest any subjects or themes in the original discussions.

I'm starting to organise FPOTY 2019 and would like to invite you all to submit a couple of theme suggestions for inclusion in the poll and random draw.

We have 31 already which were left over from last time and I'd like to have 40-50 to choose from if possible. The existing ones are:

Vintage
Decay
After dark
Curve(s)
Ruin
Wood
Abstract and odd
Big sky
Stone
Windswept
Faith
Weather and it's effects
Sand
Water
Negative space
Fire
Ascending/Descending
Bright colours
Pictures within pictures or frames within the frame
Earth
Home
Faces
Consumption
Garden
Sparkles
Charity
Tradition(al)
Departed
Stranger portrait
Something new
Neolithic

(Themes already used in the 2018 competition are: Close-up or macro; Wet; Still life; Street shots; Wheels; Chains; Natural light portrait; Waste; Fake; The decisive moment; Speed & Airborne)

If you want to make any suggestions, please post them in the thread. Thanks!

 

[Quendil]

I have only just joined the forum so wasn't around for the suggestions last year. Only getting back into photography this year and was never that good 30 years ago but hopefully things like this will help me improve.
As for suggestions everything I can think off seems to be suggested maybe Lines if not already done

 

[Harlequin565]

I'm going to stick with S:

Spooky
Serene

Thanks Janet!

 

[Slyelessar]

Abstract.

 

[Mrs Snap]

Abstract.

Thanks Slyelessar. Abstract is already on the list. Do you want to suggest anything else?

 

[Peter B]

How about Transport? That should cover a decent range of opportunities. Entertainment could also cover everything from buskers to organised fairs, festivals, sports events, street theatre or whatever?

 

[sirch]

How about:
Religion
Dark

And thanks for organising this Janet

 

[excalibur2]

How about Transport?

Well I wish next year's FPOTY started now as there was a fascinating steam car parked outside a pub..the owner is going to need more than beer as there was water leaking underneath the boiler. Anyway took some shots.

 

[Carl Hall]

I'll suggest 'Wild' and 'Little and Large'. Cheers Janet

 

[RaglanSurf]

Well I wish next year's FPOTY started now as there was a fascinating steam car parked outside a pub..the owner is going to need more than beer as there was water leaking underneath the boiler. Anyway took some shots.

Without suggesting that you should even consider cheating you know you could have just taken the shot now and processed it after the competition had started

 

[excalibur2]

Without suggesting that you should even consider cheating you know you could have just taken the shot now and processed it after the competition had started

Well the film is still in the camera and am I correct in FPOTY 2019 starts this Nov?

 

[Mrs Snap]

Well the film is still in the camera and am I correct in FPOTY 2019 starts this Nov?

Nope, 1st December

 

[excalibur2]

Nope, 1st December

A shame as this burst of warm lovely clear sunny weather is great for shots and two bites of the cherry if "Autumn" is in the list for next year.

 

[FishyFish]

A couple from me, if that’s ok?

• Fungi (ideally as a late autumn placement, although there are opportunities all year round).
• Things With Faces (see this Flickr group to get an idea of what I mean: https://www.flickr.com/groups/11192513@N00/)

 

[Mr Badger]

Without suggesting that you should even consider cheating you know you could have just taken the shot now and processed it after the competition had started

The current rules state: "All images entered must be TAKEN ON FILM and on or after the 1st December 2017" (assuming we keep to the same wording and deadline for this year, it will read 1st Dec 2018) "when the themes are unveiled. The date the photo is taken is defined as the day the shutter is pressed to record the image to film, not the date the film was scanned etc."

So I think anyone taking a photo before 1st Dec, then developing, scanning and entering it afterwards would be in breech of the rules?

 

[excalibur2]

The current rules state: "All images entered must be TAKEN ON FILM and on or after the 1st December 2017" (assuming we keep to the same wording and deadline for this year, it will read 1st Dec 2018) "when the themes are unveiled. The date the photo is taken is defined as the day the shutter is pressed to record the image to film, not the date the film was scanned etc."

So I think anyone taking a photo before 1st Dec, then developing, scanning and entering it afterwards would be in breech of the rules?

Indeed you have to have rules but when you think about it... if a shot is not related to time then it wouldn't change from a few years back to a few years into the future. So e.g. my shot of a steam car would look the same if parked in the same place in Dec and I took another shot.

 

[Mrs Snap]

A couple from me, if that’s ok?

• Fungi (ideally as a late autumn placement, although there are opportunities all year round).
• Things With Faces (see this Flickr group to get an idea of what I mean: https://www.flickr.com/groups/11192513@N00/)

I've no issue with accepting suggestions from people not tagged in my previous post. If anyone else has one or two, post them up.

I have noticed similarities between a couple of the suggestions and existing themes so I may look at amalgamating them.

 

[Mrs Snap]

The current rules state: "All images entered must be TAKEN ON FILM and on or after the 1st December 2017" (assuming we keep to the same wording and deadline for this year, it will read 1st Dec 2018) "when the themes are unveiled. The date the photo is taken is defined as the day the shutter is pressed to record the image to film, not the date the film was scanned etc."

So I think anyone taking a photo before 1st Dec, then developing, scanning and entering it afterwards would be in breech of the rules?

Indeed you have to have rules but when you think about it... if a shot is not related to time then it wouldn't change from a few years back to a few years into the future. So e.g. my shot of a steam car would look the same if parked in the same place in Dec and I took another shot.

That rule isn't changing for 2019. The monthly themes will be posted up on 1st December 2018 and photos can be taken from that point.

Ultimately, though, only the photographer actually knows when they took the photo and it's down to their personal ethics to follow the rules. We can only take it on trust that they haven't cheated.

 

[Mr Badger]

That rule isn't changing for 2019. The monthly themes will be posted up on 1st December 2018 and photos can be taken from that point.

Ultimately, though, only the photographer actually knows when they took the photo and it's down to their personal ethics to follow the rules. We can only take it on trust that they haven't cheated.

You're right, it's down to trust and integrity, same with the voting. To be honest, I doubt anyone would want to cheat in a 'just for fun' contest like this anyway; if they did, then aside from probably not being a particularly good photographer, I don't think they'd be much of a person either.

In answer to Brian's point, although the time of taking may not change the photo much, using a photo taken outside the timeframe specified in the rules could give an unfair advantage to the perpetrator in that they'd have more time to concentrate on taking any remaining topic photos they didn't already have in their photo library, plus it would also give a statistically and logistically higher probability of having a good photo to enter.

Aside from that, a photo taken now, with trees still in full green leaf visible in the background would be pretty obvious if the given theme cropped up between December and April. Likewise, certain plants only bloom at certain times of year, so there's another 'time stamp' for the photo. Given the broad-ranging depth of knowledge of the F&C membership I think there's a fair chance that such a plot may soon be rumbled.

 

[excalibur2]

In answer to Brian's point, although the time of taking may not change the photo much, using a photo taken outside the timeframe specified in the rules could give an unfair advantage to the perpetrator in that they'd have more time to concentrate on taking any remaining topic photos they didn't already have in their photo library, plus it would also give a statistically and logistically higher probability of having a good photo to enter.

Well I was just thinking out aloud and it wasn't about changing the rules....only Jan and Feb are a bit tight and starting in Dec helps, but if the theme is right\convenient then everyone could have up to 13 months to get a VG shot e.g. if christmas 2019 was a theme you could have two bites of the cherry.
Anyway even if anyone would be likely to cheat from a portfolio years ago, you still have to beat some VG shots produced in the time frame of the rules.

 

[Mr Badger]

Well I was just thinking out aloud and it wasn't about changing the rules....only Jan and Feb are a bit tight and starting in Dec helps, but if the theme is right\convenient then everyone could have up to 13 months to get a VG shot e.g. if christmas 2019 was a theme you could have two bites of the cherry.
Anyway even if anyone would be likely cheap from a portfolio years ago, you still have to beat some VG shots produced in the time frame of the rules.

That's the reason I think the topics should be put in 'seasonal' order this time. Obviously, for some topics such as Wood or Bright Colours (taking two from the above list for instance) it won't make much difference what month they crop up, but something like 'Beaches' might give inland dwellers a bit of a problem if it came up in January... unless they've been on a 'Turkey and Tinsel' trip or a winter sunshine holiday!

Whether it's necessary or desirable to arrange topics in an optimal shooting order will probably become clear when they're chosen, and will no doubt depend on the views of the majority, or an executive decision by Mrs Snap. As for two bites of Christmas, that's a good thing, after Carl Hall and The Snaps have wolfed down all that sloe gin they're making it might give the rest of us a better chance!

 

[RaglanSurf]

The current rules state: "All images entered must be TAKEN ON FILM and on or after the 1st December 2017" (assuming we keep to the same wording and deadline for this year, it will read 1st Dec 2018) "when the themes are unveiled. The date the photo is taken is defined as the day the shutter is pressed to record the image to film, not the date the film was scanned etc."

So I think anyone taking a photo before 1st Dec, then developing, scanning and entering it afterwards would be in breech of the rules?

Yes you are absolutely 100% right and I for one wouldn't countenance such a flagrant disregard for the rules. It was meant to be, as a lot of my posts are, somewhat amusing and tongue in cheek.
In future, for the benefit of those who might mistake my posts for a serious comment on film photography or the state of the 21st century world we inhabit, I shall highlight such posts by using an extra large italic font in pink!

 

[Mr Badger]

Yes you are absolutely 100% right and I for one wouldn't countenance such a flagrant disregard for the rules. It was meant to be, as a lot of my posts are, somewhat amusing and tongue in cheek.
In future, for the benefit of those who might mistake my posts for a serious comment on film photography or the state of the 21st century world we inhabit, I shall highlight such posts by using an extra large italic font in pink!

I find a usually suffices.

Oh, and don't worry, I didn't think you'd suddenly gone all Terry-Thomas on us!

 

[Mrs Snap]

Looking at ideas for 2019, there have already been a few suggestions made earlier in the thread but, in the main, people seem to want something similar to this year’s competition.

I have come up with a couple of suggestions to delight / annoy* you all which, when I've got them clear in my mind, I'll post up for your amusement. It will be in a new thread because I can't add a poll to this one and I don't want to incorporate them into the competition without a vote. If either is accepted, they will necessitate some changes to the rules. If they're kicked into touch, I envisage the rules remaining largely the same.
*Delete as applicable

With regard to theme selection, I am planning to follow a similar process as last year because, in my opinion, it worked well. It enabled Carl to remove any suggestions that were generally disliked or deemed unsuitable by the majority of voters whilst ensuring that the actual monthly themes selected were drawn at random. The 31 unused theme suggestions left over from the poll and draw for this year’s competition will be combined with some new suggestions. I’ve invited the 11 people who weren’t involved this time last year to propose ideas but anyone can actually suggest a couple more if they want. Then I’ll set up a poll in a new thread so we can do an initial cull to remove the least suitable / popular suggestions. The number to be discarded will be more than the 10% that were dropped last time but the exact amount will not be decided until the poll has ended and results are visible. Once we have the list of possible themes, I’ll stick them all in Mr Snap’s top hat and draw them out exactly the same as Carl did last time (he used his own top hat though, not Mr Snap’s!). It may be necessary to move themes around slightly if they are drawn for an obviously unsuitable month but I will be keeping this to an absolute minimum and I expect most, if not all, will remain as per the random draw.

I’ll announce the full list of monthly themes for FPOTY 2019 on 1st December so there is currently just over 5 weeks to get everything sorted out. Plenty of time!

 

[excalibur2]

but something like 'Beaches' might give inland dwellers a bit of a problem

Ah it would be a shoe horn for me as we have Burnham beeches near me. Well used by film and tv productions but you have to keep your eyes open as it has Adders.

 

[simon ess]

Ah it would be a shoe horn for me as we have Burnham beeches near me. Well used by film and tv productions but you have to keep your eyes open as it has Adders.

A beautifully random post.

I love it.

 

[Woodsy]

Robert Brown would have been impressed