film developing is making my sink rusty!

bomberman

bomberman

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Hi,

Every time I develop a roll of film in the kitchen sink I get a strange rust appearing the next day. It's tenacious and seems to spread if I leave it and it's also very difficult to scrub off. It gets all over my plates and cutlery.

Has anyone else experienced this or know exactly might be causing it? I want to develop more film but don't want to trash the sink as it's a rented apartment :-( I've tried covering the whole sink with clingfilm but somehow the sink is STILL rusty the next day! How is this happening?!
 
I don't know about rust.....I do know however that the seals in the watse water pipes don't take too kindly to the effects of developer chemical....

I generally dilute my old chems in a bucket with lots of water then dispose down the toilet and flush 3 or four times.

One thing i feel i must state is how toxic these chemicals can be especially in concentrate form.

I would seriously try and refrain from having them near your cutlery etc.

If you don't wear protective gloves, apron and goggles then i would propose that too ....i am not wishing to sound over protective but I have had a poorly pet cat and a ruined pair of of leather shoes due to chemical misshaps and my negligence.

I offer my advice as a genuine way to help you and others avoid experiencing similar or worse.

Edit: I do all my developing over the bath/shower so that the area can be rinsed down thoroughly afterwards!
 
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Only thing i can think of is that the stop bath, being acidic is causing the damage. Even though stainless steel (which im assuming your sink is) is chemical resistant to a certain extent, i wouldnt put it past a landlord to put a naff one in to save money.
You could try emptying your chemicals into a bucket and disposing down the toilet as asha suggests, or by performing a small test using a few drops of each chemical to find out which one is the culprit, then avoid putting that one down the sink :)
 
robhooley167 said:
performing a small test using a few drops of each chemical to find out which one is the culprit
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I quite fancy trying that out on the mrs to see what reaction it would cause....divorce probably :D
 
Asha said:
I quite fancy trying that out on the mrs to see what reaction it would cause....divorce probably :D
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Let me get my labcoat and clipboard :geek:
 
Ruined my mums sink when I was a photography student, think it was the fixer, even after a prolonged wash ;)
 
Noted that advice @Asha. Don't want chemicals to ruin anything & I've only just began dev'ing film at home! They say prevention is better than a cure right? I had no idea that film chemicals could have this effect on household things. Thanks.
 
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Why not just keep water running in the sink (with it half-ish full) while developing? Surely that would get rid of anything nasty fairly quickly, and whatever remains will be heavily diluted anyway.
 
I'm sure that i read somewhere when i was considering doing my dev. that you need to disposed of old chemicals at a council waste centre .
 
robhooley167 said:
Only thing i can think of is that the stop bath, being acidic is causing the damage. Even though stainless steel (which im assuming your sink is) is chemical resistant to a certain extent, i wouldnt put it past a landlord to put a naff one in to save money.
You could try emptying your chemicals into a bucket and disposing down the toilet as asha suggests, or by performing a small test using a few drops of each chemical to find out which one is the culprit, then avoid putting that one down the sink :)
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What do you think you are? Some sort of Materials Scientist?



:p
 
IamAshlyRose said:
Noted that advice @Asha. Don't want chemicals to ruin anything & I've only just began dev'ing film at home! They say prevention is better than a cure right? I had no idea that film chemicals could have this effect on household things. Thanks.
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Yes prevention is better than cure but you can only prevent if you get some knowledge beforehand hence why i posted what i did.

Fortuanatly for me my female puddy tat survived her curiosity with my chems...i had the uncovered jugs full of chem sat in bowl of water to bring them upto temp....unknown to me little Yelle as she is called went snooping. that evening she was having respiratry probs and had minor blistering on her nose and tongue;

Emergency vet gave me a right ear full ( avery expensive one too!)...rightly so i suppose but I would never intentionally hurt an animal.

I now ensure that the cats are both out of "lab" area and doors securely closed.
Just one of lifes lessons that I learnt from!
 
BigJohn said:
I'm sure that i read somewhere when i was considering doing my dev. that you need to disposed of old chemicals at a council waste centre .
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I think some countries are very strict with disposal.

However unless you are pouring many many gallons of the stuff down the waste pipe each week, I think to dispose small mounts via toilet or sink causes little more of an environmental issue than many harsh toilet detergents.

Only way to be sure is to contact your local council.
 
when I'm working with B&W I tend to use my dev as a 1 shot and dispose after use - not by tipping it down the sink, instead I have a "waste bottle" which I dispose into the outside grate, when the washing machine is emptying in it's first rinse cycle. So, it doesn't get chance to stuff-up the internal pipework, and gets 3-4 washing machine loads worth of water to wash it away. When Stop/Fix expires it's mixed with the session's dev, and disposed in the same way.

For colour chemicals, which aren't used as one shot - when they finally expire, I've a mate who can dispose of them correctly for me... I drop him the used chemicals, and a couple of quid to dispose of them appropriately.

I don't use much of anything anymore - so to be honest, it'd very probably be fine to dispose down the outside grey-water drain if sufficiently dilute - but I'd rather not take the chance when it comes to some of the nastier C41 and E6 stuff...
 
I susppose the high content of various halides could well eat away at steels, especially lower quality stainlesses, but I wouldn't have thought it strong enough to have an effect over night? Caffenol does like to stain my sink brown but it's no worse than stewed tea.
 
Thanks for all the advice and Rob i think i'll try the droplet experiment thing this weekend. I only develop about a couple of rolls every couple of months, here's a pic of the problem:

photo1.jpg


As you can see it has proliferated UNDERNEATH the clingfilm - very bizarre! Another strange thing is that the inside of the sink is never affected, just the draining board and around the edge sometimes by the taps. It has me well and truly stumped!
 
bomberman said:
Thanks for all the advice and Rob i think i'll try the droplet experiment thing this weekend. I only develop about a couple of rolls every couple of months, here's a pic of the problem:

photo1.jpg


As you can see it has proliferated UNDERNEATH the clingfilm - very bizarre! Another strange thing is that the inside of the sink is never affected, just the draining board and around the edge sometimes by the taps. It has me well and truly stumped!
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That is as you say very strange...I'm wondering if the reaction happens at the point when the wetness on the drainer etc is at a minimum.....sort of when it's nearer to dry ....some sort of ratio of moisture ( as against wetness), chemical, air and the stainless steel.

Robs idea of testing does come across as the best way to try find out exactly where the problem lies.

Seeing the the photo strengthens my advice that you really do consider developing elsewhere away from your food preperation, dishwashing areas ......simply for as a precaution for your own health!
 
Another thing is that not all clingfilm is impermeable, PVC clingfilm is permable to some chemicals but Low Density Polyethylene isnt. This stuff is only about 20 Microns thick, which is about 1/5th the thickness of paper, so getting small holes in it is pretty easy even when you are careful.
I'd be tempted to put a couple of layers down
 
Thanks for that, it does make me wonder if I might be slowly poisoning myself! I was very careful not to pierce the clingfilm although it's possible it was already permeated in places before it was put on the roll in the factory. It could also be possible that the sink is made out of two different types of metal, one for the actual sink and one for the draining board and bits around the edge.

It sucks, I like developing my own film but this puts me off a little bit; I got home from work after scrubbing all the rust away the other day to find it slowly creeping back. There were a couple of knives and forks on there that also had traces of rust on them. Maybe it adds to the flavour?
 
bomberman said:
Thanks for that, it does make me wonder if I might be slowly poisoning myself! I was very careful not to pierce the clingfilm although it's possible it was already permeated in places before it was put on the roll in the factory. It could also be possible that the sink is made out of two different types of metal, one for the actual sink and one for the draining board and bits around the edge.

It sucks, I like developing my own film but this puts me off a little bit; I got home from work after scrubbing all the rust away the other day to find it slowly creeping back. There were a couple of knives and forks on there that also had traces of rust on them. Maybe it adds to the flavour?
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Please don't let my comments stop you from developing at home Tim......I have simply posted them to hopefully help yourself or others fall victim to any ill health.

Home dev is personally for me the highlight of film photography.....You obviously enjoy it too so do please keep at it!

Like anything, used sensibly they should pose no probs.

Sadly your attempts at covering the drainer to keep the chems etc seperated hasn't worked for whatever reason....who knows, maybe the rust was destined to creep in without the help of your chems??!!

Presumably you have other facilities like i mentioned such as shower or bath ( unless of course you get cleaned by standing in the often relentless UK rain:D) ...even porcelain wash basin ( assuring you keep your toothbrush etc out of the way!)
 
bomberman said:
It could also be possible that the sink is made out of two different types of metal, one for the actual sink and one for the draining board and bits around the edge.
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I doubt it, would cost a fortune to fabricate that way. It may be the way that the steel was stamped to make the sink which makes it more susceptible to rust in the areas near the deformation due to stress buildups, but i would have to wait for Redddraggon to confirm (he's already done the corrosion module at uni :D )
 
robhooley167 said:
I doubt it, would cost a fortune to fabricate that way. It may be the way that the steel was stamped to make the sink which makes it more susceptible to rust in the areas near the deformation due to stress buildups, but i would have to wait for Redddraggon to confirm (he's already done the corrosion module at uni :D )
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If in doubt ( of anything) ....ask a student.....gauranteed to be up to speed with most things with the exception perhps of wisdom.....that matures with age! :D :D :D
 
Asha said:
If in doubt ( of anything) ....ask a student.....gauranteed to be up to speed with most things with the exception perhps of wisdom.....that matures with age! :D :D :D
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This sort of thing is part of my degree :p Corrosion, polymers and metals :geek:
 
robhooley167 said:
This sort of thing is part of my degree :p Corrosion, polymers and metals :geek:
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The only degrees I learnt were on portractors :D ..... I never was clever, learnt all i know from guys like you! :D
 
I've got a degree in biochemistry so I know a bit about science but the way the rust creeps in after developing and only affects the PART of the sink is really confusing! The only part it dosent seem to corrode is the part that gets cometelu covered in chemicals! I reckon it must be a cheapy sink. Perhaps it's coated with something to enhance the appearance of the draining board?
 
Sorry, typing this on my phone hence the interesting spelling of *completely*
 
bomberman said:
Another strange thing is that the inside of the sink is never affected, just the draining board and around the edge sometimes by the taps. It has me well and truly stumped!
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Stainless steel sink bowls are usually welded to the draining board panel and the seam ground and polished, not formed from one piece so it sounds like a lower grade stainless has been used for the draining board.
 
RobertP said:
Stainless steel sink bowls are usually welded to the draining board panel and the seam ground and polished, not formed from one piece so it sounds like a lower grade stainless has been used for the draining board.
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That explains that then. Cheers
 
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