Film Choices for a Holiday - What Speed?

Mr Will

Mr Will

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Please forgive me for the newbie question but I have a holiday coming up shortly and for the first time in my adult life intend to take a film camera with me.

My problem is trying to choose a film or films that will versatile enough to cover the wide range of conditions; from bright daylight to dimly lit restaurants. My fastest camera only has a top speed of 1/2000 so if I pack mainly 400 I'll be barely fast enough for the evenings but have to stop right down in the daytime just to get a usable shot. Alternatively I pack a mix of 100 and something fast (Portra 800?) but then how do I cope with having the wrong sort of film in the camera at the wrong time...

What am I missing? Surely there is some clever solution to this dilemma.
 
Sorry, but your only option is to take multiple cameras ;):D
 
a couple of different bodies that can share lenses, or something with exchangeable film backs.
 
If you're going to take a lot of shots in dimly lit places and only a few in daylight, bring an ND filter.

Alternatively, depends how much you get through really - if you can shoot through rolls quickly, then you can just pack a mix of fast and slow film as necessary.
 
Two bodies is not a option unfortunately, will be travelling light. Currently shooting with a Yashica Electro35 but hoping to pick up a Bessa R2A prior to the trip.
 
Travelling light with an Electro35 ? :eek: Only kidding, hehe.

It's not that hard to change film mid-roll, as long as you note the number of exposures taken, push in the rewind button, rewind carefully (avoiding rewinding right into the canister, though even that is salvageable if you have the tool), and then when you're re-using that roll make sure you wind it on 2 or 3 shots past where you were up to. This is harder to do with motordriven film advance cameras, but also possible if you know how.

Personally I'd take a mix of film, eg 100 speed, and then Portra 400 for everything else (assuming you're shooting in colour). Portra can be underexposed by up to 2 stops quite easily with normal processing, so can be shot at 1600 indoors, then the ISO setting just adjusted back to whatever you want for daytime shooting. Bearing in mind you can also overexpose it by a couple of stops too without too much problem, you could just use Portra 400 for everything, just adjusting the ISO between 100 and 1600 according to need!

Another option is to just shoot fast film during the day and bring a flashgun for the indoor shots.
 
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Mr Will said:
My fastest camera only has a top speed of 1/2000 so if I pack mainly 400 I'll be barely fast enough for the evenings but have to stop right down in the daytime just to get a usable shot.

What am I missing? Surely there is some clever solution to this dilemma.
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1/2000? That's two stops faster than any camera I own (1/500). You'll be fine.

I was in China for a few weeks in October in bright sun without a single drop of rain and I shot wide open all day at f/2.8 and 1/500 with 160 and 400 speeds films without a problem (Fuji 160NS and Portra 400).

By my count, even the 160 should have been exposed at 1/4000 at f/2.8 according to sunny 16 and yet it turned out perfectly fine. The latitude on black and white and colour negative films is simply ridiculous. Just don't underexpose them.

If you're planning to shoot slide film though, disregard everything I've just said.

Personally, with one camera, I'd just buy some Portra 400 and stop worrying about it. That stuff can handle anything you throw at it.
 
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^^^^^^^^^^

WHS
 
As already mentioned, 1/2000th is damned quick and a couple of stops quicker than cameras many of us shoot with so you shouldn't have a problem! My concern would be having a long enough exposure time in camera or a cable release to enable correct exposure in darker environments, as long as you have that you shouldn't really need to worry about brighter days. If you're wanting to wander round with something like an f/1.8 lens wide open for shallow DoF shots then you *might* be into neutral density filter territory but negative film is incredibly forgiving and has a very gentle response when pushed in terms of brightness, it isn't like digital that absolutely brick walls and looks horrendous when you overexpose.

If you have serious concerns about overexposing remember you don't have to shoot film at box speed, most neg films are perfectly happy being pushed or pulled a stop either way (and more in some cases), just remember to shoot the entire roll at the same speed and make a note of what that speed was so it can be developed accordingly. Even rating a film a stop quicker than box speed and devving normally will often give perfectly useable results if you're sensible scanning (assuming you're going to scan, of course).

Above all, don't worry about it, just enjoy your trip and enjoy shooting. :)

Where are you heading just out of interest?
 
skysh4rk said:
I was in China for a few weeks in October in bright sun without a single drop of rain and I shot wide open all day at f/2.8 and 1/500 with 160 and 400 speeds films without a problem (Fuji 160NS and Portra 400).

By my count, even the 160 should have been exposed at 1/4000 at f/2.8 according to sunny 16 and yet it turned out perfectly fine. The latitude on black and white and colour negative films is simply ridiculous. Just don't underexpose them.
Click to expand...

Just to back up what I said earlier, here is a photo from a roll of Fuji Pro 400H that I seem to have accidentally shot at f/2.8 and 1/125, so this would have been very overexposed according to box speed (at box speed it should have been about 1/8000 at f/2.8), but it doesn't seem to have made any practical difference:

 
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Very interesting to hear that colour neg has enough latitude to play around that much whilst still developing normally. I usually shoot black and white and know that can be pushed and pulled a lot at the point of developing but obviously that doesn't solve the mid-roll change problem (and in fact would make it worse!). If I can load the camera with 400 film and then set it to 200 in the day and 800 at night and then fix the results at the scan/print stage then that solves the problem. I think I need to pick up a roll and take some test shots before I go.

Destination is Marrakesh, hence the decision to pack colour film for a change and the worries about sunlight!
 
PMN said:
If you have serious concerns about overexposing remember you don't have to shoot film at box speed, most neg films are perfectly happy being pushed or pulled a stop either way (and more in some cases), just remember to shoot the entire roll at the same speed and make a note of what that speed was so it can be developed accordingly. Even rating a film a stop quicker than box speed and devving normally will often give perfectly useable results if you're sensible scanning (assuming you're going to scan, of course).
Click to expand...

I find this thread very interresting, I'm totally new to film and so far I have only shot 2 rolls that still need developing... That's how new I am...

I didn't know that you could change the iso this way. But surely this only trick the meter? (i.e. using a ISO400 film and shooting with the camera setup to manual at f/4 1/250s with any ISO only change the meter reading?)

So when is it that you can "push" or pulled? Is it at the development stage or at the printing stage? Is this mean that you need to process it yourself to be able to do this?

PS: I have a OM1 so there is no auto mode, only manual but with a meter in the viewfinder
 
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Lemaildetom said:
I find this thread very interresting, I'm totally new to film and so far I have only shot 2 rolls that still need developing... That's how new I am...

I didn't know that you could change the iso this way. But surely this only trick the meter? (i.e. using a ISO400 film and shooting with the camera setup to manual at f/4 1/250s with any ISO only change the meter reading?)

So when is it that you can "push" or pulled? Is it at the development stage or at the printing stage? Is this mean that you need to process it yourself to be able to do this?
Click to expand...

To do it properly it's pushed or pulled both at the shooting and development stage. The aperture and shutter speed depend purely on the type of shot you're shooting, the ISO stays set the same for the entire roll. Basically the range of light from shadows to bright highlights negative film can record (it's dynamic range) is staggeringly high, the box speed of the film is just the optimum' middle ground' value for that particular film. Because film's dynamic range is so high it gives a lot of space to basically abuse it! It's extremely difficult to genuinely overexpose neg film, so if an ISO400 film is too fast for what you're doing you can shoot it as ISO200 and develop it as such without really having any adverse effects on the final image, and similarly if an ISO200 film is too slow you can shoot it as ISO400 to give you quicker shutter speeds and again develop it as ISO400. The images will generally be pretty good (if not perfect) either way.

In many cases if you're pushing or pulling a stop or less either way you could still pull plenty of detail out of the neg in scanning even if you developed at box speed. Negative film is the most forgiving of all photographic formats in terms of being able to do things you couldn't do with others, it's lovely stuff. :)
 
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Lemaildetom said:
I find this thread very interresting, I'm totally new to film and so far I have only shot 2 rolls that still need developing... That's how new I am...

I didn't know that you could change the iso this way. But surely this only trick the meter? (i.e. using a ISO400 film and shooting with the camera setup to manual at f/4 1/250s with any ISO only change the meter reading?)

So when is it that you can "push" or pulled? Is it at the development stage or at the printing stage? Is this mean that you need to process it yourself to be able to do this?
Click to expand...

My understanding is that yes, you are just tricking the meter. The negatives end up under/over-exposed and this is maintained after development. The difference comes in at the printing or scanning stage where the under/overexposure can be corrected to a certain degree (dependant on film type). Imagine shining a brighter light through a dark negative or a dimmer one through a light one.

Push or pull processing is different. This is a way of developing film so that it behaves like a different ISO. I regularly shoot Ilford Delta 400 at 800 and then push it one stop when develop it (leave it in the developer for longer). This means that negatives shot at 800 come out correctly exposed (in theory!) and need no further compensation at the point of printing/scanning. This should give better results than fixing it at the later stage but the downside is that it can only be applied to an entire roll.

Does that clear things up at all?
 
Lemaildetom said:
I find this thread very interresting, I'm totally new to film and so far I have only shot 2 rolls that still need developing... That's how new I am...

I didn't know that you could change the iso this way. But surely this only trick the meter? (i.e. using a ISO400 film and shooting with the camera setup to manual at f/4 1/250s with any ISO only change the meter reading?)

So when is it that you can "push" or pulled? Is it at the development stage or at the printing stage? Is this mean that you need to process it yourself to be able to do this?

PS: I have a OM1 so there is no auto mode, only manual but with a meter in the viewfinder
Click to expand...

Hi,

Essentially you are over/underexposing when you use a different ISO to what the film is usually rated at. For an individual shot thats under/over exposed you can usually rescue it to a degree during the scanning/printing stage by correspondingly over/underexposing the print/scan (which could be described as pushing/pulling), but this may reduce image quality (e.g with negative film underexposure = increased grain/contrast and decreased dynamic range, but overexposure = the opposite).

Pushing/pulling in typical use however is when you alter the ISO effectively for the whole roll, and increase/decrease the developing time to compensate so that negatives are now 'normally exposed' e.g you can push a film 1 stop by exposing 200 speed film at 400 (by telling the meter its 400 speed film), and having it pushed one stop in the development (this will usually increase the grain/contrast slightly). You will usually need to send the film to a pro lab such as Peak Imaging to do this as its not a service that consumer labs tend to offer.

As mentioned above though, some films (especially Portra 160 and 400) have such exposure latitude that you can over/underexpose them by several stops and yet develop normally with no push/pull and get results which are near identical to exposing at the normal ISO (you could effectively almost describe it as 'multi-ISO film').
 
Great! Thanks Paul, Will and Samuel for the explaination! I think I need to put this into practice....
 
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