Filing Structure Consensus

[Joe94]

Hi All,

As a weekend hobbiest who just take images of mainly wildlife in my garden & then the occasional days out or holiday, I’m wondering what the general consensus is, in regards to the best image/raw file structure is, which is then referenced to a catalog in pp software.

A) Default ‘year’ > ‘month’ > ‘date’ filing structure of the raw files, then use keywording/collections to filter type of photography eg. Garden Birds or Species or holiday name ect...

or

B) a folder structure where you have master folder of say ‘year’ > then subfolder of ‘Garden Birds’ or ‘Sept France Holiday’ ect...

Im interested to see what people use or any other structures?

Cheers

 

[john.margetts]

I have never seen the point in using dates as folders or file names as this is already there in the exif data and is searchable. For digital photographs, I have them in one of two folders - Lumix or EOS depending on which camera I used. I also keyword the images to make them easy to find and also put them in Lightroom collections.

For film photography, I use folders which are the camera name and sub folder of film type - I have 50ish film cameras in semi-regular use and this info is important for me.

 

[Joe94]

I have never seen the point in using dates as folders or file names as this is already there in the exif data and is searchable. For digital photographs, I have them in one of two folders - Lumix or EOS depending on which camera I used. I also keyword the images to make them easy to find and also put them in Lightroom collections.

For film photography, I use folders which are the camera name and sub folder of film type - I have 50ish film cameras in semi-regular use and this info is important for me.

I see, so if my understanding is correct, you don’t even have sub folders?

You just put all your images into one large camera body named folder, reference those two large folders to your catalog in Lightroom and then use collections to create the sub folders only within Lr of particular groups of images e.g a holiday or day out... and keywords to search for individual images?

 

[Box Brownie]

FWIW

I use (b) with inclusion of the date in the sub folder name, and I do keyword and when using Lightroom also used star ratings to 'sort' the files.

I am now hardly using LR but have yet to grapple with the DAM replacement when using DxO PL4 as my editor.

 

[andrewc]

I file

year folder
--> yy-mm-dd <event / shoot description> <HI / LO / RAW>
I always shoot with two cards, with different resolutions. Either hi and lo res jpgs, or hi res and RAW.

When away at events I process lo res photos on the day, as less time / battery power required to download and process. When back at base I'll revert to the bigger versions. I use the lightroom colour codes and star ratings and I use a LR plug in to Syncomatic to sync keywords, colour codes, star ratings etc between two folders containing same file names.

 

[Joe94]

Thank you everyone for your example and support, very help & gives me plenty to think about

Very much appreciated.

 

[popcorn]

Mines not ideal, but I start with Landscape or Wildlife folders, then down to area or animal type, then to location or species and finally when it was.

So for example

Landscape - Peak district - Mam Tor - Sep19
Wildlife - Birds - Heron - Dec20

 

[john.margetts]

I see, so if my understanding is correct, you don’t even have sub folders?

You just put all your images into one large camera body named folder, reference those two large folders to your catalog in Lightroom and then use collections to create the sub folders only within Lr of particular groups of images e.g a holiday or day out... and keywords to search for individual images?

Why have sub folders that have no function? I never sit there trawling through my images with a file browser. Even if I did need to use a file browser to find photos, I would use the search facility to find the photos I wanted. It is not 1980 anymore.

 

[Joe94]

Why have sub folders that have no function? I never sit there trawling through my images with a file browser. Even if I did need to use a file browser to find photos, I would use the search facility to find the photos I wanted. It is not 1980 anymore.

That is a very good point actually.

One thing that has occurred to me, if you do all the keywording/smart collections in LrC, what would happen if LrC went your one decided to move to another software with a DAM, would the keywords be transferred (embedded) into the raw file, or would you have to re keyword everything?

 

[Dave Canon]

I do use a basic Year> Month>day. I just create the Year Month folders and LR creates day subfolders during Imports. I do add various keywords to enable future searches. If I need to collect a few similar images together (e.g. for talk or competition), I use Collections (virtual folders) for this as they will probably only be temporary anyway. The idea of using one folder for all your photos is not that odd and Martin Evening once suggested it though I understand that he still used some folders himself. So although I am using a date based structure, when searching for an image I will usually select the top folder "Pictures". As LR has a fast database, it can locate my wanted images in a fraction of a second from say 30,000 images. As long as I apply keywords, colour codes, ratings etc. to my images searches will based on a combination of these and EXIF data. A few of my collections are smart collections so created automatically but they are also virtual so no extra storage. This is the power of LR and one of the main reason why I use it.

Dave

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

I've found that the best way to file large numbers of images (about 40,000 at the moment) is to put them into one directory per year and use long, descriptive filenames (e.g. "Abus double decker pulling into The Triangle Sidmouth A65 DSC02952"),

I then use the Unix command line to find everything in that year for a type of subject. So...

"ls | grep bus | grep Sidmouth"
​

...will bring up all the relevant files. This will work for Apple, Linux and Windows 10 (with the Linux option enabled). The advantage of this approach is that your filing system will work without any need for a particular program, making your data entirely portable and independant of manufacturer's vagaries.

 

[Joe94]

I do use a basic Year> Month>day. I just create the Year Month folders and LR creates day subfolders during Imports. I do add various keywords to enable future searches. If I need to collect a few similar images together (e.g. for talk or competition), I use Collections (virtual folders) for this as they will probably only be temporary anyway. The idea of using one folder for all your photos is not that odd and Martin Evening once suggested it though I understand that he still used some folders himself. So although I am using a date based structure, when searching for an image I will usually select the top folder "Pictures". As LR has a fast database, it can locate my wanted images in a fraction of a second from say 30,000 images. As long as I apply keywords, colour codes, ratings etc. to my images searches will based on a combination of these and EXIF data. A few of my collections are smart collections so created automatically but they are also virtual so no extra storage. This is the power of LR and one of the main reason why I use it.

Dave

Thank you Dave, very much appreciated.

I think one thing is for sure, I need to really invest in using key wording & collections for my main filtering/categorising. The decision is just then whether I store the images in Date structure or Broad folder img e.g 2020 -> Bird image, France Holiday ect...

One thing I have queried above however, is when applying keywords, are they attached to the actual raw file? So for example if LrC ever did go or one decided to move to another DAMPP Software, would the key words also be moved or would I need to re key word everything?

Many Thanks

 

[Joe94]

I've found that the best way to file large numbers of images (about 40,000 at the moment) is to put them into one directory per year and use long, descriptive filenames (e.g. "Abus double decker pulling into The Triangle Sidmouth A65 DSC02952"),

I then use the Unix command line to find everything in that year for a type of subject. So...

"ls | grep bus | grep Sidmouth"
​

...will bring up all the relevant files. This will work for Apple, Linux and Windows 10 (with the Linux option enabled). The advantage of this approach is that your filing system will work without any need for a particular program, making your data entirely portable and independant of manufacturer's vagaries.

Thank you for this, very interesting indeed

 

[RichardC27]

I group mine by Year, then by shooting date in Windows. However, in Lightroom everything is grouped into collections, which sit in Collection Sets by year. So I can click on 2019 in Lightroom, and underneath that are collections from every race meeting / event / holiday I went to that year. These are then all synced with LR Mobile so they also appear on my phone and iPad, and backed up onto two separate external hard drives. I tend to do all the management from within LR, the Windows folders are just there to hold the images.

 

[4tea2]

A consensus? That's going to be a challenge

My personal view is a folder structure following a similar structure to that suggested by @andrewc

I’m working with the top level of the structure folders named after years and below these subfolders named after the shoot/event/trip and the date e.g.

2010
2010_06_23_Anne_Wedding
2010_09_01_France
::
::
2011
2011_07_12_Carnival
2011_10_01_Sophie
::
::

This structure is then supplemented with keywords/tags managed using DigiKam.

I favour this approach because I get searching via DigiKam plus a collection of images that can still be accessed via the standard filesystem when required.

Plus your chosen backup/offline archiving process can easily be applied to the folder structure.

 

[myotis]

One thing I have queried above however, is when applying keywords, are they attached to the actual raw file?

They can be, but Adobe and C1 have a strict rule of not touching the raw file. Some DAMs do (or can do) e.g Photo Mechanic and iMatch. Adobe and C1 do embed metadata into Tiffs, and JPEGs, and Adobe and maybe C1 will embed metadata into a DNG.
The standard is to save metadata into external XMP sidecar files, which all (as far as know) photo programs recognise and when moving raws, the sidecar files is automatically moved with them.

 

[Dave Canon]

One thing I have queried above however, is when applying keywords, are they attached to the actual raw file? So for example if LrC ever did go or one decided to move to another DAMPP Software, would the key words also be moved or would I need to re key word everything?

The keywords etc. are stored in the LT catalogue but I do protect myself by also saving XMP sidecar files (as above). They take up little space and, if you lost you LR catalogue, it can readily re-construct a catalogue from the data in the XMP files. The XMP files are normally saved with the original files so when I back up I also back up the XMP files as well. Also if you had to use a different application, some will use the XMP file.

Dave

 

[Joe94]

They can be, but Adobe and C1 have a strict rule of not touching the raw file. Some DAMs do (or can do) e.g Photo Mechanic and iMatch. Adobe and C1 do embed metadata into Tiffs, and JPEGs, and Adobe and maybe C1 will embed metadata into a DNG.
The standard is to save metadata into external XMP sidecar files, which all (as far as know) photo programs recognise and when moving raws, the sidecar files is automatically moved with them.

Thank you, I will look into saving separte XMP files too then, just in case

 

[Joe94]

The keywords etc. are stored in the LT catalogue but I do protect myself by also saving XMP sidecar files (as above). They take up little space and, if you lost you LR catalogue, it can readily re-construct a catalogue from the data in the XMP files. The XMP files are normally saved with the original files so when I back up I also back up the XMP files as well. Also if you had to use a different application, some will use the XMP file.

Dave

Thank you Dave, as above, I will look at setting these up then in my workflow

 

[myotis]

Thank you, I will look into saving separte XMP files too then, just in case

Just for completeness, here is how my system folders are arranged (including typo!). Viewed in Photo mechanic, not this matters.



You will see I have a few minimal words added to the date for each folder that contains files to give an idea of what is in each folder.

The biggest problem with a date based hierarchy is keeping up to date with the meta data

I use Photo Mechanic to ingest (import) the raws from the SD card onto my Hard drive. Photo Mechanic allows you to create multiple import templates and I have them set up for places I regularly visit. You then choose the appropriate template on ingest. This adds location details, copyright etc and the most obvious keyword (s), and some other data, into XMP sidea car files aas the files are moved onto to my HD. For example, I have a template for the RSPB Ham Wall nature reserve, which has the "animal" keyword built into the template as 99.9% of all the pictures from there are of animals (not just birds)

Once ingested, I have a keyword drop down list that only has about 10 words in it. These are very simple like "transport" "landscape" "animal" "personal" "tests" "industrial" etc. and I make sure every image has at least one keyword.

Even though I may have added a keyword through the template, I will usually go through the imported files, and do a little tidying up. e.g. I may have taken a couple of landscape type pics at Ham Wall that day so I will find them and replace the "animal" keyword with "landscape". Or I may feel that a bird picture might also work as a landscape and add, rather than replace, the "landscape" keyword.

It's done quickly, and is still very broad categories, but it makes a big difference trying to find things

Every so often I search for files without keywords and add one to any files that show up.

At one time, I tried to properly keyword every image and in practice hardly ever got round to it, so most images didn't get any !!

I do however, go through all new images and add common and scientific names for animals. I use a feature in Photo Mechanic for this where if I type, for example, /buzza/ Photo Mechanic will replace this code with "Buzzard or Common Buzzard (Buteo buteo)". But you can do this with any text replacement tools such as type expander or typinator. You do however need to spend weeks creating the reference files for PM to look !! I'm still working on a plant one

I then expand the metadata on an "as needs" basis.

The bad news is that Capture One doesn't support metadata import templates (except for copyright). There may be a cheaper option that Photo Mechanic to do this, as I feel it's worthwhile starting point for any metadata. With my basic set up every file has at least a date, a place(country, county, town) and one keyword to narrow down searches, with very little effort on my part.

 

[Joe94]

Just for completeness, here is how my system folders are arranged (including typo!). Viewed in Photo mechanic, not this matters.

View attachment 308402

You will see I have a few minimal words added to the date for each folder that contains files to give an idea of what is in each folder.

The biggest problem with a date based hierarchy is keeping up to date with the meta data

I use Photo Mechanic to ingest (import) the raws from the SD card onto my Hard drive. Photo Mechanic allows you to create multiple import templates and I have them set up for places I regularly visit. You then choose the appropriate template on ingest. This adds location details, copyright etc and the most obvious keyword (s), and some other data, into XMP sidea car files aas the files are moved onto to my HD. For example, I have a template for the RSPB Ham Wall nature reserve, which has the "animal" keyword built into the template as 99.9% of all the pictures from there are of animals (not just birds)

Once ingested, I have a keyword drop down list that only has about 10 words in it. These are very simple like "transport" "landscape" "animal" "personal" "tests" "industrial" etc. and I make sure every image has at least one keyword.

Even though I may have added a keyword through the template, I will usually go through the imported files, and do a little tidying up. e.g. I may have taken a couple of landscape type pics at Ham Wall that day so I will find them and replace the "animal" keyword with "landscape". Or I may feel that a bird picture might also work as a landscape and add, rather than replace, the "landscape" keyword.

It's done quickly, and is still very broad categories, but it makes a big difference trying to find things

Every so often I search for files without keywords and add one to any files that show up.

At one time, I tried to properly keyword every image and in practice hardly ever got round to it, so most images didn't get any !!

I do however, go through all new images and add common and scientific names for animals. I use a feature in Photo Mechanic for this where if I type, for example, /buzza/ Photo Mechanic will replace this code with "Buzzard or Common Buzzard (Buteo buteo)". But you can do this with any text replacement tools such as type expander or typinator. You do however need to spend weeks creating the reference files for PM to look !! I'm still working on a plant one

I then expand the metadata on an "as needs" basis.

The bad news is that Capture One doesn't support metadata import templates (except for copyright). There may be a cheaper option that Photo Mechanic to do this, as I feel it's worthwhile starting point for any metadata. With my basic set up every file has at least a date, a place(country, county, town) and one keyword to narrow down searches, with very little effort on my part.

Thank you for this, very interesting and gives me lots more to consider and think about, when deciding on my structure. Very helpful indeed

 

[myotis]

Thank you for this, very interesting and gives me lots more to consider and think about, when deciding on my structure. Very helpful indeed

It seems I might be wrong about C1 not allowing you to use templates on import. I can't see how it works but a video on batch editing implies that you can use metadata templates.

It would be worth checking out as it’s a great timesaver. If I work out how to do it, I will get back to you.

Edit: as I watch this video, the title is a bit misleading and I think you will find it useful to know about while thinking about your workflow

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvAHwf9zhjA&list=PLBZS3EGK3tQ-H9ciBN9cTXGCy7V3I2LBf&index=8

Edit again: You add metadata templates in the "adjustment" tool, not the metadata tool where I was looking for it. So you create metadata templates (presets) in the metadata tab, and then apply them at import using the adjustment tool.

 

[Joe94]

It seems I might be wrong about C1 not allowing you to use templates on import. I can't see how it works but a video on batch editing implies that you can use metadata templates.

It would be worth checking out as it’s a great timesaver. If I work out how to do it, I will get back to you.

Edit: as I watch this video, the title is a bit misleading and I think you will find it useful to know about while thinking about your workflow

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvAHwf9zhjA&list=PLBZS3EGK3tQ-H9ciBN9cTXGCy7V3I2LBf&index=8

Thank you Graham, I will definitely give this a watch