Fgm

archangel

archangel

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1700 young girls from this country have been mutilated in this way and does anyone get prosecuted ...you gotta be having a giraffe..but yet in France over forty people have been brought to line for this horrific and barbaric practice......another example of our namby pamby touchy feely government bowing to the minorities who exploit vulnerable people......
 
It cannot really be the easiest thing to prosecute I'd imagine as I'd guess most of the victims are pretty scared of relatives/raised to obey elders and as such will not speak out to the authorities or concent to examination and your never going to get forced examinations I'd imagine as if they're not willing to make a complain and not a suspect of a crime you'll likely breach their human rights by trying to get a court ordered examination all making it hard to convict a parent/guardian

So as horrid as the idea is and as much as the general public and likely the government want to stop it, there is a lot of barriers to actually stopping it...

As in incidental it should also be raised about males having forced circumcision as lets face it most are done not long after birth so it's not like they can refuse or protest :( where is the out cry on that? And I don't want to get into the religious based motives/arguments as its an area I have a serious knowledge deficiency
 
Fgm and male circumcision are very very different beasts.
 
neil_g said:
facts. this thread lacks any.

e: maybe the OP more than the entire thread.
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17000 girls mutilated so far with the risk of up to another 65,000 over the next number of years...... mostly under twelve years old....

What more facts do you need....it is a disgusting cultural practice
 
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archangel said:
17000 girls mutilated so far with the risk of up to another 65,000 over the next number of years...... mostly under twelve years old....

What more facts do you need....it is a disgusting cultural practice
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thats better but some facts about why they are not being prosecuted too would be nice. would make it much less of a knee jerk thread :)
 
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neil_g said:
thats better but some facts about why they are not being prosecuted would be nice. would make it much less of a knee jerk thread :)
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Sorry for jerking you;)

I am currently getting baked in 27 degree heat with no shelter and a photo shoot from Hades......

Basically the consensus is that the police/social services etc are failing to prosecute the parents for child abuse as most misunderstand it as a religious activity and not a cultural one and basically are scared shirtless of being accused of racism or discrimination.....imho it is child abuse....... no anesthetic, pain killers and unsterilized knives/razors........not to forget the psychological distress of being held down by a group whilst being cut........


I couldn't imagine any sane parent wanting to do this to their child.....

My wife teaches some Somali girls who will be traveling to Somalia in the near future under pressure to be cut........she has no redress to report any concern nor adequate training on how to deal or approach the subject with the girls.......

In France there is an active push to prosecute all parents who have allowed this so called right of passage to be implemented.......

And as it is illegal here in the UK to partake or allow your child to be mutilated, it is now time that the correct people are trained up and prosecutions are brought against the parents involved.......
 
The reason why no one is being prosecuted, is because no one is coming forwards and saying, this has happened to me.
Until the new law which requires mandatory reporting, the medical world couldn't contact police because of patient confidentiality.
So, no victim and no evidence means no prosecution, simple as that, nothing to do with Government, who don't prosecute anyway, nothing to do with lack of will on the part of the Police, or even the cowards in the CPS.
 
Bernie174 said:
The reason why no one is being prosecuted, is because no one is coming forwards and saying, this has happened to me.
Until the new law which requires mandatory reporting, the medical world couldn't contact police because of patient confidentiality.
So, no victim and no evidence means no prosecution, simple as that, nothing to do with Government, who don't prosecute anyway, nothing to do with lack of will on the part of the Police, or even the cowards in the CPS.
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Mandatory reporting is in place.....if an individual is seen by medical staff to have been mutilated by a blade our any other weapon it should be reported to the police our at least the social care system....after all the child is being cut against their will, they are mostly under age so a duty of care is the legal responsibility of all medical staff....nothing to do with confidentiality......it is a legal responsibility of anyone in public office to report any type of child abuse......look what happened baby p and other when people looked the other way.....
 
archangel said:
Mandatory reporting is in place.....if an individual is seen by medical staff to have been mutilated by a blade our any other weapon it should be reported to the police our at least the social care system....after all the child is being cut against their will, they are mostly under age so a duty of care is the legal responsibility of all medical staff....nothing to do with confidentiality......it is a legal responsibility of anyone in public office to report any type of child abuse......look what happened baby p and other when people looked the other way.....
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Problem wirh mandatory reporting us that in the normal run of lfe, having to seek medical attention in that area, especially when a child, doesn't happen that often.
 
Simple answer. All schools have a yearly medical of the girls and if any are found to have had FGM then parents are prosecuted. That should go a way to stopping it.
 
cambsno said:
Simple answer. All schools have a yearly medical of the girls and if any are found to have had FGM then parents are prosecuted. That should go a way to stopping it.
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Mandatory genital inspection?
Love to be a fly on the wall at the meeting when that's suggested.
Imo it's a ludicrous suggestion. Sorry.
 
viv1969 said:
Mandatory genital inspection?
Love to be a fly on the wall at the meeting when that's suggested.
Imo it's a ludicrous suggestion. Sorry.
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Not as ludicrous as it sounds.....when u was at school many years ago we all, both boys and girls, had an annual medical......and a full medical at that......if anything was found such as vitamin issues, abuse our other medical issues, it was immediately flagged and your parents were summoned to discuss the next steps to treatment etc.....my parents were brought in when they discovered that I may have a need for glasses
 
I do like the way we've gone from fgm to needing glasses in one post
 
archangel said:
Not as ludicrous as it sounds.....when u was at school many years ago we all, both boys and girls, had an annual medical......and a full medical at that......if anything was found such as vitamin issues, abuse our other medical issues, it was immediately flagged and your parents were summoned to discuss the next steps to treatment etc.....my parents were brought in when they discovered that I may have a need for glasses
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There were no medicals at any of my schools.
 
archangel said:
Not as ludicrous as it sounds.....when u was at school many years ago we all, both boys and girls, had an annual medical......and a full medical at that......if anything was found such as vitamin issues, abuse our other medical issues, it was immediately flagged and your parents were summoned to discuss the next steps to treatment etc.....my parents were brought in when they discovered that I may have a need for glasses
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May also help prevent some of the abuse that we read about
 
cambsno said:
May also help prevent some of the abuse that we read about
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Nope. Sorry. But such intimate examinations of young girls (I have no Idea how it would feel for boys) could in itself be very damaging for little girls.
 
viv1969 said:
Nope. Sorry. But such intimate examinations of young girls (I have no Idea how it would feel for boys) could in itself be very damaging for little girls.
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If it's part of a general medical then I don't see a problem. At least it's doing something seeing as reports of this are not as high as we would like to see. Is it perfect, no, but it's a start.
 
Mandatory reporting is in place.....if an individual is seen by medical staff to have been mutilated by a blade our any other weapon it should be reported to the police our at least the social care system....after all the child is being cut against their will, they are mostly under age so a duty of care is the legal responsibility of all medical staff....nothing to do with confidentiality......it is a legal responsibility of anyone in public office to report any type of child abuse......look what happened baby p and other when people looked the other way.....
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No, the rules on reporting only came into effect in April this year.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-government-measures-to-end-fgm

Prior to that date, if the victim and her her family declined to report it, or allow medical staff to do so, that was it, end of story. You can argue about responsibility until you are blue in the face, it wont help, that was the situation until April.

As horrific as it is, it's not seen that way in other cultures and if mum, gran, great gran etc have all had the same it's seen as 'normal'. That unfortunately means the victim isn't likely to be a good witness, and in fact may just deny everything, refuse to be examined and that really is the end of the story.

If they do want to give evidence, then you hit the next problem, who did it? Not always clear.

Lastly no point in comparing the French judicial system to ours, it's entirely different. There's no lack of will to deal with it in the UK, just a lack of witnesses and evidence.
 
cambsno said:
If it's part of a general medical then I don't see a problem. At least it's doing something seeing as reports of this are not as high as we would like to see. Is it perfect, no, but it's a start.
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Seriously??? Think about it, how would you/your daughter feel about that sort of exam
 
boyfalldown said:
Seriously??? Think about it, how would you/your daughter feel about that sort of exam
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Well its a very different society we live in today, but I do clearly remember being 'examined' when I was at primary school ( cough test, so its possible that the girls had a similarly intimate examination. This was nearly 35 years ago, and may have been more 'normal' at that time.
 
Nikon_Nick said:
Well its a very different society we live in today, but I do clearly remember being 'examined' when I was at primary school ( cough test, so its possible that the girls had a similarly intimate examination. This was nearly 35 years ago, and may have been more 'normal' at that time.
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Sounds from that as though we were at primary school the same sort of time, although I don't remember a cough test
 
Yep! Our nurse was quite old and frumpy.......and busty......well to an eleven year old....lol
 
To get back on track, can we just remember that fgm involves the cutting away of the clitoris, the inner labia, and the suturing closed of the outer labia leaving an opening only for urination and menstruation. So let's not pretty it up in the name of religion or culture.
 
viv1969 said:
To get back on track, can we just remember that fgm involves the cutting away of the clitoris, the inner labia, and the suturing closed of the outer labia leaving an opening only for urination and menstruation. So let's not pretty it up in the name of religion or culture.
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Exactly, hardly needs legs in stirrups type examination.
 
boyfalldown said:
Seriously??? Think about it, how would you/your daughter feel about that sort of exam
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It's not an exam. General medical, takes 2 or 3 seconds to see if anything may be wrong. Would bother me if my daughter had a general medical. I too remember the cough test fwiw.

At least this could have a massive impact on this issue, as there doesn't seem to be many more suggestions coming forward. Or do we ignore it?
 
viv1969 said:
To get back on track, can we just remember that fgm involves the cutting away of the clitoris, the inner labia, and the suturing closed of the outer labia leaving an opening only for urination and menstruation. So let's not pretty it up in the name of religion or culture.
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It is the most horrific experience that any young girl can be subjected .... cultural difference is no excuse........no human should be exposed to this....... not would any God (if you are that way inclined) suggest that this makes a difference to the human experience.......


Parents who allow this to happen need persecuted, jailed and the kids re homed into loving families
 
cambsno said:
It's not an exam. General medical, takes 2 or 3 seconds to see if anything may be wrong. Would bother me if my daughter had a general medical. I too remember the cough test fwiw.

At least this could have a massive impact on this issue, as there doesn't seem to be many more suggestions coming forward. Or do we ignore it?
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Out of curiosity, Why would it bother you if your daughter had a school general medical? Or have I read this wrongly? Apologies if I have....
 
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