FF or crop for wedding photography

joel222

joel222

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Lee
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I've shot a few weddings on a 550d but since switched to a 6d which I've shot around 40 weddings on. I'm now thinking of going back to a crop and would like to hear from others that might shoot weddings on a crop, what do you gain/lose? I understand high iso performance is better on the 6d but does it make that big of a difference?
 
Ever since, well forever in digital, I've shot on DX cameras, right from my first Pro spec D2Xs (which was £3,500) to me currently using two D7200 camera bodies at £600 each; yet they are massively better than that first Pro camera I had

You 'lose' having wafer thin DoF wide open compared to FX; and yes, high ISO is better on FX

You 'gain' that wide open you probably have a higher hit rate of shots in focus, and in the (my) real world you rarely shoot anything above 3200 ISO anyway at which modern DX cameras are fine. Of course they are noisier than FX would be even at 3200 ISO, but then its hard to see it even in a full page album shot so it doesn't really matter

You also gain that your kit is 1/3 to 1/2 the cost, and, as this is business you're talking about rather than a hobby, cost is a huge factor to consider. While I can make a case for the FX D750 at around £1,200 I can't see how anyone can justify spending £5,000 on the D5, that's madness

If I was to start right now, and money wasn't an issue, then I'd have FX based around the D750 rather than the D5; switching to FX though is a waste of money for me

Does that help?

Dave
 
Hi Lee going to be a lot of different viewpoints on this.... personally im a full frame guy a lot of the churches local to me don't allow flash during the service but allow photos even with a fast lens most crops cant handle the high iso like a full frame imho.....
it does depend on your style I will defo say that but you obv know what your doing if you have shot around 40 weddings so what do you think the 6d is lacking ???? For me I couldn't live with the 6ds autofocus for a wedding but that's a personal thing a 5d3 is a diff story or a 1d body though
 
owenb said:
most crops cant handle the high iso like a full frame
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:agree: - but my point is they can handle it well enough for any church I've ever been in, and I've never yet had anyone want a double-page spread from any shot that was taken in a high ISO environment too. My highest ISO image that's ever a double-page is from 1st dance where my highest ISO is 1,000

Its not long ago that everyone HAD to shoot 'crop' as there was no full-frame, and at that time all makes were crap at any ISO above 800 but we lived with it, just as we lived with grain in film days where we called it a 'feature' of images taken in darker locations

Dave
 
highest is 1000 seriously for a double page? I must live in the darkest part of the country I regularly have to shoot at 6400 hence my answer lol
A lot of clients probably don't see the noise though I totally agree
 
owenb said:
highest is 1000 seriously for a double page? I must live in the darkest part of the country I regularly have to shoot at 6400 hence my answer lol
A lot of clients probably don't see the noise though I totally agree
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6400? Pah! You must be close to the sun. Where I live I need 25,600 at noon on a sunny day :D

I'm not a wedding shooter and I do wonder if someone who has shot 40 weddings with a 6D and who previously used an APS-C camera should be answering this question and not asking it.
 
owenb said:
highest is 1000 seriously for a double page? I must live in the darkest part of the country I regularly have to shoot at 6400 hence my answer lol
A lot of clients probably don't see the noise though I totally agree
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To clarify - I sometimes shoot up to 3200 (and extremely rarely above that), but I was referring to what goes into the album just happens to be images taken at lower ISO values, and ones well within the range of crop sensors

To regularly be shooting at 6400 though - what dungeon-like area do you live in ??? :D

Dave
 
Lol seriously I regularly have to use 12.800 here in good old Gloucester during services no word of a lie lol.... obv outside and venue is different as can use flash etc but yep I guess my places are dark lol
 
owenb said:
Lol seriously I regularly have to use 12.800 here in good old Gloucester during services no word of a lie lol.... obv outside and venue is different as can use flash etc but yep I guess my places are dark lol
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12,800 eh ???

I read somewhere once that cameras can go that high, never tried it though lol

12,800 using the ART lenses too, either you shoot in coal-pits or you've not realised that you don't have to shoot everything at 1/2,000th sec & f8 :D

Dave
 
I shot a candle lit service once ISO 12800 f2 (ish) 100th shutter speed approx it was DARK! Im usually no more than 3200 at a service though, If I can find a crop camera that can cope with that I would gladly save money over a full frame and buy one.
 
stumac said:
I shot a candle lit service once ISO 12800 f2 (ish) 100th shutter speed approx it was DARK! Im usually no more than 3200 at a service though, If I can find a crop camera that can cope with that I would gladly save money over a full frame and buy one.
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At the risk of taking this off point... assuming that you're not shooting exclusively wide open if you adjust your aperture for whatever crop factor it is your using your ISO may drop (instead of f8 and be there it could be f5.6 and be there or f4 and be there... you get the idea...) and depending upon your final image size and viewing maybe a crop can be easily good enough? My MFT cameras cope well enough with high ISO shooting and a decent APS-C is possibly going to be a smidgen better. Actually these days isn't ISO 3200-6400 just mid ISO rather than high? :D I'd have thought that anything from MFT and upwards would be pretty good at ISO 3200-6400 these days unless you want 2m wide gallery quality, for on screen and reasonable sized prints isn't almost anything from MFT and up ok?
 
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DG Phototraining said:
12,800 eh ???

I read somewhere once that cameras can go that high, never tried it though lol

12,800 using the ART lenses too, either you shoot in coal-pits or you've not realised that you don't have to shoot everything at 1/2,000th sec & f8 :D

Dave
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I will dig some out lol glos must be dark lol I never go below 1/80 if I can help it though because I shake lol
 
stumac said:
If I can find a crop camera that can cope with that I would gladly save money over a full frame and buy one.
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When I had my D2Xs it couldn't get that high (nothing could at the time, well certainly no Nikon as it was before FX), and having no lenses at f2 or less I'd have just not bothered to take the shot - or, at the very best, just have take it on my widest lens (12-24 at the time) and handed over a noisy as Hell slightly blurred shot

Thankfully, it didn't happen :)

Dave
 
DG Phototraining said:
There you go then - have a few beers to slow you down and you'll get away with 1/20th easily ;)

Dave
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The problem with being still and using slow speeds I that the world doesn't slow down when you do and even when told not to those pesky people in front of the camera do tend to fidget.
 
DG Phototraining said:
When I had my D2Xs it couldn't get that high (nothing could at the time, well certainly no Nikon as it was before FX), and having no lenses at f2 or less I'd have just not bothered to take the shot - or, at the very best, just have take it on my widest lens (12-24 at the time) and handed over a noisy as Hell slightly blurred shot

Thankfully, it didn't happen :)

Dave
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Thats our problem though as photographers back then it was easy to say sorry I cant do x, y or z as my film only goes to iso 1600 etc etc as you said you wouldnt have bothered to take the shot. but now people want more. we dont have the excuse. I think you touched on it earlier and I hear it all the time where photographers say "but back in the day we couldnt do this or that" but today that doesnt carry any weight because with the right gear we can do it and the general public sees that with the likes of facebook and flickr etc
 
DG Phototraining said:
To clarify - I sometimes shoot up to 3200 (and extremely rarely above that), but I was referring to what goes into the album just happens to be images taken at lower ISO values, and ones well within the range of crop sensors

To regularly be shooting at 6400 though - what dungeon-like area do you live in ??? :D

Dave
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Do you think that if you had a better camera that dealt with noise better than your current option that more higher ISO images would make the album?

Are your couples not wanting to include them because of excessive noise or are you encouraging them not too?
 
stumac said:
Thats our problem though as photographers back then it was easy to say sorry I cant do x, y or z as my film only goes to iso 1600 etc etc as you said you wouldnt have bothered to take the shot. but now people want more. we dont have the excuse. I think you touched on it earlier and I hear it all the time where photographers say "but back in the day we couldnt do this or that" but today that doesnt carry any weight because with the right gear we can do it and the general public sees that with the likes of facebook and flickr etc
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Lots of truth in that - here's how I'd solve it

Them - We're getting married by candlight, how amazing is that :)

Me - AWESOME - now I just need to charge you an extra £500 to hire cameras that can shoot in the dark :)

Dave
 
f/2.8 said:
Do you think that if you had a better camera that dealt with noise better than your current option that more higher ISO images would make the album?

Are your couples not wanting to include them because of excessive noise or are you encouraging them not too?
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Not in the slightest is it an ISO issue - so to clarify my clarify post :D

I mostly shoot in churches that are light, just as I shoot plenty of hotels that are light at the Ceremony too, yet I can't recall ANYONE EVER having a Ceremony shot as a double-page spread

ALL my spreads are either bigger Group photos or from the session(s) with the B&G alone; and yes, they choose all their photos for the album, I have no input at all in this

My Ceremony shots all tend to be 2 to 6 per page sequences. You could say that as that's what I show them in my sample albums that's also what they are expecting to do too I guess, but so far I'm pretty sure no-one has wanted a double of their Ceremony

Dave
 
DG Phototraining said:
Lots of truth in that - here's how I'd solve it

Them - We're getting married by candlight, how amazing is that :)

Me - AWESOME - now I just need to charge you an extra £500 to hire cameras that can shoot in the dark :)

Dave
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If you're not sure what's possible I'm pretty sure you'll be able to Google your way to similar shots taken in similar conditions and check the settings... You may be able to shoot at f1.4 to f1.8 and 1/80 at ISO 1600-6400 and get decent results with even quite ordinary by todays standards kit. f1.4 to f1.8 may be a bit extreme but if shooting with MFT or APS-C you have the crop factor to consider when looking at the DoF you want and the smaller chip size / wider lens thing could make shooting at these extreme apertures for exposure more acceptable for DoF... as in getting the couple in it.
 
Them - forget about it , I'll just go to the guy who photographed my friends candle lit service , thanks anyway and sorry for wasting an hour of your time
 
stumac said:
Them - forget about it , I'll just go to the guy who photographed my friends candle lit service , thanks anyway and sorry for wasting an hour of your time
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And I'd be more than happy with that

If anyone spends £5,000 on a camera (in reality, £10,000 cos two is what's really needed, and more on lenses too) just-in-case someone requires shooting at gizillion ISO then they have a strange idea of how to run a business IMHO

That is not my market, just as destination Weddings aren't either - Lake District aside, but there's business reasons for that too :)

Dave
 
I've 5d's so defiantly not 5k cameras but I can push 12800 if I need to , I'm not going to use 40d's because they are cheaper which must make more business sense lol , I hear what your saying though I just wish I was in a position to turn down weddings that don't suit me but with a mortgage and kids and dogs and cars and holidays etc I can't
 
The answer is whatever you like shooting with that gives you the images you're happy with.


For me it'd be FF as I have OCD with noise :oops: :$
 
The only argument I would say is 5k is a drop in the ocean if you make 40k with it as a tool..... its irrelevant how much it costs the sony a7s is £1400 and shoots crazy isos have used that on some occasions lol
 
Thanks for the replies. The reason I'm thinking of changing back is that I prefer the images from my 550d to my 6d apart from in low light, so I've posted this thread hoping that people would come on and say "Yes I use crop sensor for weddings and don't find it an issue", just to convince me it's the right move to be honest. Also when I say I shot a few on a crop sensor it was a few years ago as a second shooter/assistant so I cant remember exactly how I got on with settings/noise etc. I will probably try my 550d in a couple of weeks at my first wedding of the year just to see how it copes and keep my 6d at hand
 
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joel222 said:
Thanks for the replies. The reason I'm thinking of changing back is that I prefer the images from my 550d to my 6d apart from in low light, so I've posted this thread hoping that people would come on and say "Yes I use crop sensor for weddings and don't find it an issue", just to convince me it's the right move to be honest. Also when I say I shot a few on a crop sensor it was a few years ago as a second shooter/assistant so I cant remember exactly how I got on with settings/noise etc
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Assuming you have to bodies why not just use the 6d for the higher iso stuff and the 550 for the rest
 
joel222 said:
Thanks for the replies. The reason I'm thinking of changing back is that I prefer the images from my 550d to my 6d apart from in low light, so I've posted this thread hoping that people would come on and say "Yes I use crop sensor for weddings and don't find it an issue", just to convince me it's the right move to be honest. Also when I say I shot a few on a crop sensor it was a few years ago as a second shooter/assistant so I cant remember exactly how I got on with settings/noise etc. I will probably try my 550d in a couple of weeks at my first wedding of the year just to see how it copes and keep my 6d at hand
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What is it about the 550d images that you prefer?
 
snerkler said:
What is it about the 550d images that you prefer?
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They seem sharper, my 6d is ok but the 550d is super sharp


stumac said:
Assuming you have to bodies why not just use the 6d for the higher iso stuff and the 550 for the rest
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Because the controls are slightly different on each body so although I carry the 550d as a spare I wouldn't feel comfortable switching between the two regularly.
 
joel222 said:
They seem sharper, my 6d is ok but the 550d is super sharp




Because the controls are slightly different on each body so although I carry the 550d as a spare I wouldn't feel comfortable switching between the two regularly.
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what lenses are you using????
 
joel222 said:
They seem sharper, my 6d is ok but the 550d is super sharp




Because the controls are slightly different on each body so although I carry the 550d as a spare I wouldn't feel comfortable switching between the two regularly.
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The 6D should be sharper. As above have you adjusted/calibrated the lenses on the 6D?

Edit: posted at the same time as the answer above ;)
 
weird my 6d was sharp as hell the only lens I owned on your list was the 24-70 though I had the sigma arts but something aint right should be a massive increase in quality with the 6d from the 550d
 
joel222 said:
Yes, it's not soft or out of focus, just not as sharp as the 550d, which I do find strange to be honest
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Very strange. Have you tested on a tripod to rule out user error?
 
joel222 said:
I've had 2 6d's and none of them are as sharp as the 550d, maybe I've just got a freakishly good 550d ?
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Seriously you must do..... No logical reason why unless the 6d isn't setup right for how you shoot
 
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