Feeling lost

P

petemc

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Pete
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I'm not sure where I want to go. As a photographer I love photographing landscapes, cityscapes, documenting events, photojournalism, music photography, and I'm just branching into portraits. I'm feeling like thats too much, that I should specialise and focus. But where? Should I send photos to the papers and try to do photojournalism? I love capturing events like that.

I want to get more photos like this;

condi-rice-liverpool-05.jpg


But then, I want to get photos like this.

img_6052-edit_1-edit_0-edit.jpg


That could be advertising. Someone wants to do some great shots of their new whatever, or create an ad campaign for something. So they call me to be creative and dream up some wacky shots. I like to do that.

But then I love buildings too.

img_9214_3_2.jpg


So I'd like to photograph cool looking buildings.

Last night I shot my first gig in a year and even though I was only taking pictures for 15 minutes I loved it. So much energy. Great lighting, great music. I stopped trying to be a music photographer after I got fed up of bands saying £100 was too steep, that they only had £20 to spend on photography. I just don't know what my life is. Its too fractured. Everything was so clear last night at this gig. Maybe everything could lead back to music photography. Gigs by night, promo shoots by day involving great landscapes, portraits, hdr, cityscapes. Just when I thought I was getting an idea of what I like to do, I'm feeling just as lost.

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I love gigs :(
 
how do you get that good effectin the sky, is it HDR. and

how do you do it?
 
You THINK too much! Stop analysing and carry on shooting. Go where the work takes you and only accept jobs if you want to do them... and make sure you still have fun with what your are doing, and stop doing any genre that is not exciting you anymore.

...or to summarise - stop thinking, keep doing! ;)
 
Pete, Pete, Pete, your just too good for your own good.
Just go where your photography takes you at that particular time. BTW the first of your gig shots, the crowd shot, the guy in the middle looks like a young Paul McCartney:lol:
Dean:)
 
You have a number of area's you're good at Pete, why limit yourself to just one?
Focus on the ones that move you and you know you get good results from.
And ditto what LadyL said, chill.
 
I think the problem I'm finding is what to do one area well I need focus on that and I feel that if I do I'll loose ground in another. 2 years ago I started to make a bit of a name for myself doing gig photography. Then got out of it because I couldn't make any money. Now just as I'm making a name in one area I want to bail and get back to gigs. Ahhh! :D
 
My advice is to stick with what you enjoy doing. If you enjoy something you're likely to be good at it, and if you're not, the time you spend at it will improve you. If that is the buzz of shooting a gig, great! If it's the "extra" creativity and control that HDR gives you, great!

I believe this is also the advice that a lot of very wealthy people give ;)
 
Right - whether you appreciate this or not - tough, it's being said. In fact. if you don't want to potentially be given a short sharp kick up the backside then I wouldn't bother reading on.....

You are among the luckiest of people on these forums. You have a great talent for taking photos, you routinely put stuff on here that the rest of the membership say "Wow!" about, and what's more you are now making a living from it. Probably the majority of people on here would LOVE to be able to do what you're doing but for whatever reason - be that lack of talent, or a simple inability to be able to take the risks when the mortgage needs paying and the kids need shoes, they can't.

You've lost sight of the fact that you are essentially making a living from your hobby though - you spend too much time analysing what you "should" or "shouldn't" be doing. Remember, you're you, nobody else, and what has worked for others wouldn't necessarily work for you anyhow.

A good friend of mine is a professional photographer - has been for a fair few hyears now and thoroughly enjoys what he does. He does weddings, sports, commercial and architectural stuff. He'll do pretty mjuch whatever he gets a commission for to be honest because that's what pays the bills. Does he spend time whinging about being "too varied in his workload" though? No he doesn't - he just works on doing the best possible job he can within the work he takes on, and do you know, I respect him a hell of a lot for that.

If you want to be an "artist" then fine - nothing wrong in that, but the likelihood of it paying your bills for the short term is pretty slim so better start looking around for a rich widow. If you want to be a successful photographer though then that might well mean covering areas now that you're not so interested in and putting in the graft in the areas that pay less on the side, in order to build up a name. Your call really.
 
Witch..............[s4]well said[/s4]


Saved me from typing a similar post.

Stop moaning Pete and get on with shooting what ever the customer wants.
 
petemc said:
I think the problem I'm finding is what to do one area well I need focus on that and I feel that if I do I'll loose ground in another. 2 years ago I started to make a bit of a name for myself doing gig photography. Then got out of it because I couldn't make any money. Now just as I'm making a name in one area I want to bail and get back to gigs. Ahhh! :D
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:bang: There are NO rules that say you have to focus on a single area. Pete, your stuff has been an inspiration to many round here, including me, but most of us haven't made the leap of faith into professionalism because we are not sure enough or good enough to do so... please stop thinking too hard about your art and just be happy that you are doing something you love, only you can decide where you take it, whilst the rest of us can be quietly jealous that you have the ability and skill to do so!
 
Witch speaks (well types I s'pose) much sense.

I always suspect these posts are more about looking for approval and praise to keep that delicate artistic nature we all have happy and content.

The fact is that when you leave the comfy little world of shooting purely for your own pleasure, praise becomes meaningless. Of all the working snappers here, you post by far the highest level of work images. The rest of us seem far less bothered about the opinions of our peers and concerened only in whether the client liked it and if we got the best result we could.

Work is work, art is art. Seldom to they cross over but that doesn't mean that client images don't require your creative streak.

Now stop whinging and get on with it. :razz::lol:;)

oh and you best have one of these....
icon_rolleyes.gif
 
I'm not planning on turning down jobs. I did a job the other week that involved spending the day photographing the inside and outside of a shopping centre. Wooo, glamourous stuff ;) So yeah I'll take jobs as they turn up. But that wasn't my point. Its where to focus, what clients to be targeting. Thats what I'm unsure on. Should I stop phoning ad agencies and try to call magazines? Should I look at moving to London and trying to get a job with a music mag, which then takes me away from certain areas. I've met a lot of great photographers in the past few years and they all seem to specialise. 90% fashion, 90% music, 90% architecture. Do they really take jobs they're not good at just for the money? We were discussing just this the other day after the Bruce Smith talk. In fact I may have a job out of it because a photographer doesn't do landscapes. He shoots products and fashion. I don't agree with shooting every job you get offered. Its not good for the client. If someone asked me to shoot insect macros I wouldn't be very good at it, and the client wouldn't be happy with the results.

LadyLens said:
:bang: There are NO rules that say you have to focus on a single area. Pete, your stuff has been an inspiration to many round here, including me, but most of us haven't made the leap of faith into professionalism because we are not sure enough or good enough to do so... please stop thinking too hard about your art and just be happy that you are doing something you love, only you can decide where you take it, whilst the rest of us can be quietly jealous that you have the ability and skill to do so!
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Sorry :( I didn't want this to seem like a "Aren't I so good I can't decide which fat cheque to take" thread. Its not. I'm genuinely stressed about this because I feel like I am failing. Sure I can take a good photo, but I feel like I should be getting more work than I am so in that respect I need to focus on one area and hit it hard.

dazzajl said:
I always suspect these posts are more about looking for approval and praise to keep that delicate artistic nature we all have happy and content.
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:( I post a photo a day and people post that they like it, and you think I'm now asking for praise? Couldn't I just be a bit depressed and lost, asking for some help?
 
I have to agree with witch. You have a great talent, Pete, one which most folks on here would be please to have half of. Reading your post brought to mind the Friends episode in which Chandler expresses...."My wallet's too small for my fifties, and my diamond shoes are too tight!" - it seems to me that you can take great photos of pretty much anything, so 'enought of the angst already' ;). Just take pictures....and don't specialise, as you'll cut off potential income avenues.
 
marky_h said:
I have to agree with witch. You have a great talent, Pete, one which most folks on here would be please to have half of. Reading your post brought to mind the Friends episode in which Chandler expresses...."My wallet's too small for my fifties, and my diamond shoes are too tight!" - it seems to me that you can take great photos of pretty much anything, so 'enought of the angst already' ;). Just take pictures.
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:( Its not like that though. Yes I can take pictures, no I can't get enough people to be buying them because I'm not sure where I should be focusing my other time. Web designers do web design. You don't see F1 drivers racing in snow rallys. I'm just thinking out loud on a lonely Sunday afternoon. I hope people can see passed the diamond shoes :p
 
petemc said:
:thumbs:

thing is if this was anyone else you would have had alot of people saying do this do that . go the way that pays

problem with this pete is .:suspect: you..

your standard is very high and your not allowed to have a off day or people think your after bigging up..

im sure your not i dont think thats in your nature " well i hope not"

just my thoght on a sunday afternoon


md:thumbs:
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Couldn't I just be a bit depressed and lost, asking for some help?
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I didn't say you weren't, hell I'm depressed just reading about it. ;)

The point I was trying to make is that (all of) our artistic sides are delicate creatures and sometimes need to be praised and cooed over. When it comes to creating client images, we need to produce the goods even on days that we might not feel like shooting if it was just for pleasure. It becomes different as we learn to get grade A images even on our bad days.

Specialising is the right way to go for any photographer and I've never liked the tag lines that some snappers use like "weddings - portratits - landscape - commercial - PR". The thing about specialising though is that it chooses you, rather than the onther way around. If your gig shots are your best area, then your quality in that area will start to outshine the competition and you'll get more and more of that kind of work. Eventually, the time will come where you are well enough known and getting enough work that you can start to turn the other areas away.

You can't force it. Yes you can pick an area to target your marketing but in the end you still need to shoot the best work you can every day, and let it happen.
 
Then maybe you are asking the wrong people, as most round here are not full time professionals, but I think I like what Daz says, it makes sense. Targetted marketing? yes, maybe, but why not have several targets whilst developing your skills in certain areas? It makes sense to me that you need to have a product to sell, so do you need to do more gig photography in order to have a tool to sell with and in building up that resource, would the process of doing that give you more of an idea if that is what you really want to do or if its just a current 'phase' as some kind of mental rebellion against you current street/urban landscape stuff?


....and DONT you DARE move to London, or I will have to bin all my HDR's!! :lol::lol: :p
 
I've been thinking about this a little more, is what you're feeling Pete really about your art and your career or more to do with your (trying to find the right words here) emotional and mental state, and , NO I don't mean are you losing it.
You've been quite open about the insecurities that you feel in some area's, you also seem to go through this soul searching phase every so often, I wonder sometimes if you need to take more care of the physical you?
How's your nutrition? maybe you need to boost your B vitamins, you'd be amazed at what it can do for your outlook.
End of session with Dr Susane. :p
 
So just keep slogging at it then? Last night it was so clear. I'm a music photographer, love it. I was chatting with a guy the other day who asked if I had sent my work to the papers for a job. I do realise that I'm very lucky to be in the position I'm in, but at the same time damn scared about where go next. Dunno why I get like this. Was so clear last night.

My diet is pretty bad too, so yeah that might affect things :) I get low blood sugar so easily so when I try and lose weight I get that instead and have to eat. What has vitimin B in? I drink plenty of milk and OJ.
 
So just keep slogging at it then?
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I think that's about it, yup. IF you're good enough at one thing to raise yourself head and shoulders above the majority, then you'll become a specialist. It's a small minority of snappers that make that grade and for most, taking what comes in and doing a damn good job of it is how the roof stays over the head.

You need to believe and you need to work hard, every day. Fate will take care of the rest. :)
 
You are incredibly talented Pete and an utterly lovely person, i know it seems strange to say it but being scared is often a good thing. It gives you something to beat and better yourself. Keep slogging away and you will find something, sending away work to varying places and people may open some more doors and give you even more to draw from. Might even help you decide on something you want to do.
You've had a tough time of it the last few weeks, hopefully you'll take the time to come to Davey's and relax a little.
(You also have a begging pm from me in case you haven't noticed)
 
Every artist goes through this torture they wouldn't be artists if they didn't. Keep at ALL of it take the £20 off the bands but make them sign a release, make everyone sign one etc etc.

Take a menial job do anything to stay independent, read about Don McCullen, keep a diary of every shoot in a school exercise book.

You're very good at what you do and in the future just when you need the money you will have a wealth of pictures for the dealers the collectors and the galleries who will undoubtedly be after your work.

James
 
Remember also - no you shouldn't take jobs you're not good at - that's only going to harm your reputation in the long term. Build up an address book of photographers whose work you admire and whose professionalism you're sure of, and when someone asks you to do a job in an area which isn't something you cover have two or three people ready to recommend instead. Rememeber at the same time to remind the client where you CAN help them in the future though. What you might well have to do in order to pay the mortgage is take on work that doesn't particularly interest you. However, as you make a name for yourself in the areas you want to be in, that should start to ease off.

One thing that I do wonder though - will the grass on the other side of the fence always be a little greener for you?
 
petemc said:
My diet is pretty bad too, so yeah that might affect things :) I get low blood sugar so easily so when I try and lose weight I get that instead and have to eat. What has vitimin B in? I drink plenty of milk and OJ.
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From the Top nutritionist in this country and probably the world Patrick Holford;
Complex Vitamin B.
What They Do.
Keep us mentally alert and emotionally stable.
Improve energy and ability to deal with stress.
Essential for circulation, the immune system and hormone balance.
Good for hair, skin and nails.

Signs of Deficiency.
Confusion, irritability, depression, insomnia, tension, poor memory, hair loss, premature grey hair, neuritis, constipation, allergies, low energy, poor stamina.

Where to find Them.
Wholegrains,nuts, vegetables, beans, lentils, yeast, mollasses, eggs and milk products.

Or do what I do and take a good quality supplement, Holland and Barratt do excellent ones I can recommend them.
And here's a confession for you, I've been a big advocate of giving the body what it needs for many years, look in the "What do you look like thread".
I'm coming up to 54 years old. :eek: :p :lol:

Now forget I said that.:D

Edit; just in case anyone can't find it.:p
http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=29063&page=7
 
Susane said:
Wholegrains,nuts, vegetables, beans, lentils, yeast, mollasses, eggs and milk products.
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Forget supplements pete - if you suffer with low blood sugar (hypoglaecemia to give it another name) then these are the sorts of foods you should be eatring regularly anyway!
 
Susane said:
Signs of Deficiency.
Confusion, irritability, depression, insomnia, tension, poor memory, hair loss, premature grey hair, neuritis, constipation, allergies, low energy, poor stamina.
Click to expand...

Oh dear. I am easily irritated, can get depressed but I'm never sure if its real depression, sleep fine, sometimes tense, forgetful yes, hair loss is slowly progressing and going grey. I think I need more B. Wiki says its in beer. Awesome :D

Cheers for the support guys. Good or bad, its why I asked here and not a pro forum. Got friends here :)
 
Maybe a bit of adult fun would help you feel better :naughty:

Out of interest Pete ... have you ever done your own exhibition? Just yours, no one else's?


Oh, and here's some (((hugs))) they sometimes help to :)

Jo
xxx
 
lol :p I was scheduled to do my own exhibition in about 3 weeks, but I haven't heard anything. Emailed them a few times about it. Nothing. Gunna call them up and see whats going on.
 
Pete, I think you should either go into psycho analysis therapy, or stop worrying about it and simply shoot what's in front of your lens.

I can tell you now the latter is cheaper and a lot more fun!
 
Shooting whats in front of the lens isn't an issue. Its deciding what should be in front of it to shoot :p
 
The beauty of photography as a career is that there are so many forms to experiment with, shoot what you enjoy shooting, shoot what scares you, don't shoot anything you don't want to.

Even if you find yourself specialising in one form to the exclusion of others, don't sweat it. From seeing your work, this is going to a career for life for you. And a life is a verrry long time, plenty of time to switch disciplines several times.

I'm a 90%er - 90% of my income comes from weddings, but if I thought I would be shooting weddings forever I'd probably go mad. But there are still so many options to take up ... I bought my first studio lights today - I've never shot a frame in a studio before, but I've just taken on a commission that's going to need them ...

Sit back, chill, and count your lucky stars.

Duncan
 
Pete, first, I'll admit to reading your original post and the rest of the thread very quickly while my film is washing, so if this response seems a bit fragmented, that's why. ;)

I always tell professional and would-be professionals to stop thinking in terms of limitations. I understand the feeling that to get really good at one kind of photography, you have to specialize in it. I disagree, though. That may be the case for some people, but more often than not, when people specialize in one thing and do it all the time, it becomes formulaic and boring. I think many photographers excel in multiple areas because it keeps them on their toes and forces every frame to be fresh.

Your strength is that you have a certain look and feel to your shots that distinguish them from other shooters'. (When I say that, understand that HDR is NOT what I'm talking about. Anybody can do that. It's your timing and perspective that makes your work what it is, not a photoshop process.) Capitalize on that. Try seeking out projects rather than individual jobs. For example, if you love gig photography, perhaps you can find a music venue who is looking to get to the next level and will need great photography (and lots of it) to get there. Or try getting in with a small record company or promoter. It's not just bands who will pay for gig photos.

You've got to think creatively these days to make a living in photography and be happy doing it. You do NOT want to be that photographer who schlepps around doing whatever he's paid to do and hating every minute of it.

Think outside the box. And recognize that you're going to feel like this at various points in your career. It's what keeps you from becoming complacent and your work from becoming boring.

- CJ
 
Waaay too much navel contemplating going on here. If it involves using a camera and getting paid, just do it - whatever it is. When it's your job, photography is like any other job - there'll be parts you find exciting and can't wait to do, and jobs which are mundane, routine and not particularly challenging, but they pay the bills.
 
Sounds like you've already had your butt kicked Pete.:D

Just to echo what has been said. Set your stall out on what you are good at and what you enjoy, and force yourself to take days off to be creative with your camera to your hearts content without the pressure of a paying customer on your mind. Lovely work by the way.:thumbs:
 
CT said:
Waaay too much navel contemplating going on here. If it involves using a camera and getting paid, just do it - whatever it is. When it's your job, photography is like any other job - there'll be parts you find exciting and can't wait to do, and jobs which are mundane, routine and not particularly challenging, but they pay the bills.
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I actually disagree with that. Taking on jobs you hate and aren't suited to your style can 1) kill your enthusiasm for photography as a whole and 2) spoil your professional reputation for those areas you do enjoy and excel in.

I'm not saying you should turn down jobs if you're desparate to pay your rent. I'm not suggesting you should be a photographic snob. I'm saying that just because a job is offered doesn't mean you should or must accept it.

- CJ
 
I'm going to side with CJ as I've seen her work and I love what she does. If that works for her, I feel it can work for me. I'm not planning on turning down a job if I can do it, but I do feel that I should hit areas where I can make my name. If I had to do business portraits, like white backgrounds and bank managers then I would be bored and I would hate my camera. I understand the need to make money, I really do but I want to make money from my work not my camera.
 
i've been working as a music photographer since 2000 - and it's really difficult to earn money - bands do not like to pay, PR's are being more and more picky about issuing photopasses, they will ask 'who are you working for?'

i'm very lucky i'm known in the music industry as a musician and as a photographer, and i'm also on a few music photo agencies - i've seen the music industry undergo several changes over the last few years

this has been a difficult year - 3 magazines i was shooting have closed down, and i freelanced for MTV - who are now scrimping 'can you shoot this event for us? sorry we cant pay you'

most music venues have their own house photographers - i am an in-house photographer and all Liverpool venues have their in-house photographer at the moment.

being an in-house photographer doesn't mean that you can pick and choose bands you'd like to photo - you have to pee on demand, like any other job - you'll be asked to shoot your worst nightmare of a band

many photographers have others means of income - i am also a time-served gold/silversmith, artist and classically trained musician.

just thought i'd let you know what it's like from where i'm standing
 
Thats what I noticed last year when trying it. Bands can only afford £20 for a photo shoot or a gig. £20?! As great as it is, I just gave up on trying and decided to focus on more commercial work. I think Liverpool is a great place to be right now so I'll just hammer on with that. See whats what in 2009.
 
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