Feeding Badgers...

Phil-D

Phil-D

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Yes
.......for photography.

I've just chanced upon a badger sett and its location lends itself to being a cracking spot for some shots with little to no disturbance to the badgers.

The sett is in a large mound but next to a fairly deep ditch, if they drop into the ditch they'll be out of sight. If I could get them on top, I feel there's the opportunity for some decent shots in some pleasant late evening sunshine.

Now this is where I'm morally torn, do I put some food out or not? Its not like its a visiting garden badger, I'm unsure just how far they will/do travel at night but its a long way from any garden.

I think nothing of putting seed out for small birds at feeding stations but having followed a few pairs of breeding Long-eared Owls the last few years, baiting them for photography is something I haven't and wouldn't ever do.

So yes or no for feeding the badgers purely for the benefit of photography, is it any worse than the Red Kite feeding stations up and down the country? I'd happily go to the cafe at Harewood where they feed the Kites, its somewhere I'm planning on going some time soon.

I've had a bit of a google on the subject and would follow the guidelines, as in what food and only feed occasionally to avoid them becoming reliant on it, but I'm still undecided, any thoughts either way appreciated.
 
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I used to feed badgers in a sett on private land near where I lived, I had the owners permission to be there.
On the plus side, the badgers get used to your scent on the food and tend to be a little less wary, bit scary
when they come close to you, but if you invite someone to come with you, it's back to square one

On the downside, it was in a wooded area and the light was never very good, back then I didn't have a camera that performed that well
in low light
 
Just bear in mind that badgers and their setts are 100% protected. I know lots of people feed them in their garden but feeding at the sett and on and someone else's land may be different, so have a really good read of the legal stuff first. It might be an idea to ask someone from one of the wildlife organisations for advice, to make sure you stay absolutely within the law. Wildlife crime, intended or otherwise, is taken very seriously, as it should be. You don't want to fall foul of one of these badger protection groups, even if you're doing absolutely no harm at all.
 
Even better than Peanuts, use Peanut Butter,

I used peanuts initially and found they weren't interested until you'd disappeared from the site, so the following night, I smeared a couple of logs close to the camera position with lumps of peanut butter, they found it irresistible even coming within 6ft of the camera.

They were that close, I could hear then licking the stuff off !!
 
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Gremlin said:
I used to feed badgers in a sett on private land near where I lived, I had the owners permission to be there.
On the plus side, the badgers get used to your scent on the food and tend to be a little less wary, bit scary
when they come close to you, but if you invite someone to come with you, it's back to square one

On the downside, it was in a wooded area and the light was never very good, back then I didn't have a camera that performed that well
in low light
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DemiLion said:
^That. Nothing more scary than a p***ed off brock!

They love peanuts but make sure you have the landowners permission before you start the process.
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Jannyfox said:
Just bear in mind that badgers and their setts are 100% protected. I know lots of people feed them in their garden but feeding at the sett and on and someone else's land may be different, so have a really good read of the legal stuff first. It might be an idea to ask someone from one of the wildlife organisations for advice, to make sure you stay absolutely within the law. Wildlife crime, intended or otherwise, is taken very seriously, as it should be. You don't want to fall foul of one of these badger protection groups, even if you're doing absolutely no harm at all.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the replies.

The sett is on open moor/grassland where sheep are free to graze, I think its managed by the NT, I say think because I'm not sure where the managed land starts and finishes, not sure which farm the sheep belong to. Its a public footpath where the shots are taken from so access isn't a problem and because of the location the path sees very little traffic.

The feeding is a really big 'if', I am undecided, if it was in me garden then probably yes and I'd set the trail cam up. I like the idea of coaxing them into a spot where the light would be good, giving a clean background but also like the anticipation of the unexpected.

Then there's the moral side to feeding them just for photos and do I want to do it?

For all I know they may prefer the top of the mound to the ditch :)
 
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I have baited in the past for woodland birds in a woodland setting and it did not take the resident badgers more than a few days to find any peanuts not consumed by the birds. Similarly i have baited for woodmice and more specifically yellow necked mice using peanuts and peanut butter with badgers turning up occasionally. Not read up the legal side of badgers but i expect that the law will probably state no interference at or near the sett -same as for schedule 1 birds (at or near the nest) Provided its legal i would have thought that baiting a badger trail away from the sett would be all right. The national trust bait a sett in wales with peanuts and upto 8 people can watch the badgers feeding with them regularly coming out before 19.00 in the summer.

Regen
 
Phil-D said:
The sett is on open moor/grassland where sheep are free to graze, I think its managed by the NT, I say think because I'm not sure where the managed land starts and finishes, not sure which farm the sheep belong to. Its a public footpath where the shots are taken from so access isn't a problem and because of the location the path sees very little traffic.
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There's very little land in the UK that isn't owned by someone. If it's NT property then you will definitely need permission.

The footpath is irrelevant because you will be accessing private land to set up the feeding station. Without permission, that's trespass.
 
DemiLion said:
There's very little land in the UK that isn't owned by someone. If it's NT property then you will definitely need permission.

The footpath is irrelevant because you will be accessing private land to set up the feeding station. Without permission, that's trespass.
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Regardless of whether I seek permission, which I appreciate I would have to do if I decided to feed them, it's the morel side of feeding just for the sake of taking photos I'm unsure about.

And, just playing devils advocate here, how would I stand legally if I catapulted chopped apple into a position to befit the shot from the footpath?
 
Jannyfox said:
Just bear in mind that badgers and their setts are 100% protected. I know lots of people feed them in their garden but feeding at the sett and on and someone else's land may be different, so have a really good read of the legal stuff first. It might be an idea to ask someone from one of the wildlife organisations for advice, to make sure you stay absolutely within the law. Wildlife crime, intended or otherwise, is taken very seriously, as it should be. You don't want to fall foul of one of these badger protection groups, even if you're doing absolutely no harm at all.
Click to expand...

One of the offences is 'disturbing a badger when it is occupying a sett', so I think trying to feed one outside (or close to) an active sett entrance in an attempt to photograph the animal could well be seen as disturbance and result in the person being arrested by the police!

It's not just a good 'telling off' available to them either...I believe penalties on conviction can include an unlimited fine, a prison sentence of up to 6 months per individual offence, a criminal record, and any machine, tool or implement involved in an illegal act may also be seized as evidence and subsequently forfeited upon conviction (this could include camera kit and potentially even the vehicle used to travel there!), so it's probably best not to take a chance on the interpretation of the law?

NB This represents a brief summary of one aspect of the law only, as I understand it, and the onus remains entirely with the individual to consult the full texts of the current legislation, and to seek their own specialist legal advice if necessary.

Also, this is the time of year when badgers have dependent young, which makes not disturbing them all the more important from a welfare point of view. So I'd give the idea a miss if I were you and leave them in peace. If you want some photos of badgers then perhaps get in touch with your local county badger conservation group (a Google search should find the details) and see if they can help arrange a legal opportunity for you to get some photos? I hope this is useful as I'd hate to hear of anyone unwittingly getting themselves into trouble. (y)
 
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Mr Badger said:
One of the offences is 'disturbing a badger when it is occupying a sett', so I think trying to feed one outside (or close to) an active sett entrance in an attempt to photograph the animal could well be seen as disturbance and result in the person being arrested by the police!

It's not just a good 'telling off' available to them either...I believe penalties on conviction can include an unlimited fine, a prison sentence of up to 6 months per individual offence, a criminal record, and any machine, tool or implement involved in an illegal act may also be seized as evidence and subsequently forfeited upon conviction (this could include camera kit and potentially even the vehicle used to travel there!), so it's probably best not to take a chance on the interpretation of the law?

NB This represents a brief summary of one aspect of the law only, as I understand it, and the onus remains entirely with the individual to consult the full texts of the current legislation, and to seek their own specialist legal advice if necessary.

Also, this is the time of year when badgers have dependent young, which makes not disturbing them all the more important from a welfare point of view. So I'd give the idea a miss if I were you and leave them in peace. If you want some photos of badgers then perhaps get in touch with your local county badger conservation group (a Google search should find the details) and see if they can help arrange a legal opportunity for you to get some photos? I hope this is useful as I'd hate to hear of anyone unwittingly getting themselves into trouble. (y)
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Thanks for the advice :)
 
I surmise if it is an old well established sett then it will be known to the County Wildlife Trust(s). Look them up and make contact........hopeful they can throw some light on both that sett and what is permitted.
 
Thanks for all the advice and replies.

I've made my moral decision, I'm not going to feed them, I was always swaying towards the 'not feeding' side anyway, just wondered what others though.

This is my 4th year following quite a few pairs of breeding Long-eared owls, their welfare has always been my priority and as I said early, I wouldn't even consider baiting them for photographs.

I'll keep an eye on the sett and as long as I can get one or two shots without any disturbance, that's what I'll do, cheers
 
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I believe that the key to this, and which may (or may not) help you is the definition of feeding. If you put out a few peanuts or dry dog food as a 'treat' then it is easier and better for the animals as they do not become dependant on humans. I have spent the last 3 months watching badgers and foxes out of my sister in laws kitchen window (better than the telly). They put out some peanuts and dry dog food as a treat so they get to see them but not enough to satisfy their appetite. The only exception to this was when we had all the snow and more food was provided to help them survive. I think that the key we all agree on is that what ever you do must not be detrimental to the bird / animal.
 
It's interesting they are so protected, yet they wanted to cull them!

I moved recently, but at the flat where i lived, at the back of the car park area there was a no mans land that didnt belong to any property and had become a dumping ground for everyone's crap - about 5 foot of dumped everything. Often had foxes living there, but the past few years it had been badgers - only ended up seeing them about twice in all that time - the volume of earth they exhumed was staggering - piles about 6 foot high, dug in amongst all this dumped crap. my cat used to enjoy the 6ft heap of dirt to keep a look out for other neighbourhood cats lol. I used to put his wasted cat food out in the front garden, but i think it was usually foxes that had that. Guy up the road was a bit of a dr doolittle, and had started to claim and clear some of this land so he could make it safer for them - he fed foxes and treated them for mange and fed the badgers too. i thought it was weird for them to end up in a built up area, but when i spoke to someone from badgers trust he said you'd be surprised how many there were. So elusive, often heard them scrabbling about at night but hardly ever saw them. surprised the fence didnt collape with all their holes. Fond memories of being allowed to stay up late at my grandparents house to watch the badgers they used to feed. My parents have a visiting suburban fox and one time it was sitting on the garden table at the window waiting for dog treats! have a photo of it's face about 1 foot away from the window!

anyway, sorry for rambling - i think i'd do the same for wild badgers and not feed them and just hope for the best with the shots. look forward to seeing them.
 
Phil cheers for this good read interesting replies,ye olde tale of I know a guy who has fed a set for yonks(years and years and years),badgers come out to greet him, when he shakes the penut bag kids chomp his feet.....it makes me wonder.

What I have always wondered is where is the science behind feeding making a wild animal somehow dependent on us. A wild animal that has spent eons evolving a set of instincts that keep it aliive. I don't feel that if the food source dried up those animals would somehow be unable to cope. Surely they would just revert to their given set of instincts?????

Mate,I have no great desire to use food much for getting subjects to make images of,sure I feed my garden birds . When I first came here there was lots of very vocal folks about baiting,if one gets into bird of prey territory at times it became hard to read.But when asked what all this was based on there was a deafening silence. No one seemed to be able to quote documneted studies where said birds had been adversely effected by bating.
without that all we have is our own opinions which is cool,but not more than that ,no more what so ever!!!!

Me in this senario NT land ..........,with regards to baiting I wouldn't ever go there................ probably if I had a spot with complete access(I probably have already but no time to exploit),I probably still wouldn't.go there I really like John's sister's approach above and Regen's thoughts too . But what I'd really like to see is a balls to the wall study saying that baiting has negative consequences for the baited animal.

Phil baiting for photography I guess is a lively hood to some,my personal feelings amount to little if I can't honestly assess if it harms an animal,or bird. I strongly suspect that across the world feeling are different to the average brit tog,whom cares deeply about his or her subjects I suspect baiting is part and parcel,I dunno I'm not traveled

I can see baiting and humanising as being worrying tools that can leave animals vunerable, For example I make a lot of images of hares,if I make them tame,if I could make them tame ,i'd leave them vunerable,to the guy with a dog, be in no doubt Phil that haunts me. Haunt me it does,but the reality is that their is a bigger cause and effect picture at play that until recently even I was blind to.

Phil baiting these particualr badgers is un needed,you have already shown me that,I'm sure it can be done with care sympathy and one can make images and have brock cared for but I'd wrap the permissions first or go elsewhere.

Your set, i'd bang in the olde skool values of field craft time and patience,I wouldn't be getting no images first or second time out but it will come.......... like your owls frankly I feel they,those images will mean more to you this way,I know you have already made your choice,but the moral side effects all of us

I just wish someone would do a comprehensive study on baiting and it's consequences for wildlife,so we guys know exactly where we stand.......until that time mate we will do our best to think of our subjects as best we can

For me this isn't about law Phil,although I have huge appreciation for every post relating to this and obviously our law is desparately important............................. it's about what is best for said beastie and me grabbing a frame or two without doing them wrong

Dan's post above is so lovely TFS Dan................................ a kid in an urban place connecting with wildlife, and now he loves 'em and always will . How could I say his gran and grampy were wrong to give them food............. that was Dan's chance to connect and already I love his gran and grampy.yet I'd be hestitant to do the same.

My childhood my adoration of nature came from my mum,yet it was me who took her and blew her mind with 20 badgers one night,when they came to me calls her face brought tears to my eyes

We need to be slow to judge very very slow to judge others.................. but more we need study with areas like baiting ,so we can possibly make a more educated choice on what we do.

Phil this moral side is so important,I deliberately moved a hare a few days back,to get to another subject ,I simply haven't had time to post yet,about it. But the whole thing revolved around a moral choice and a skiillset I used to get an image I've wanted for a long long time.

I made that choice and I got me piccy,but I've wondered ever since about whether some would see what I did as wrong. In all honesty if I hadn't of been sitting on hares for a year and built up an awareness of how they work I'd probably have been with the next guy. He would have probably spooked the fella anyway and said something like ahh well that's a hare ya can't get close

. But in my heart I know I made the wrong move in exaclty the right way at the right time because I could

These debates are good bro they relate to everything we do

cheers for this

stu
 
Phil, I think you've got the wrong idea here, as nc_killie said, you don't feed to sustain them, just to keep them near the sett for a while.
A few handfuls of nuts scattered around are like a treat not the main course and they wander off on their normal forage.
My sett was off the beaten track, on private land, I'd go up there most days to scatter food but not always with a camera, often
visiting well before the badgers would appear, that got them used to my scent, but chances are if \I invited you to come and
watch, they would sniff the air and either not emerge or scuttle off, so you aren't in effect taming them in any way, just building
up their trust in yourself
 
Mrs Tringa and I are fortunate to spend quite a bit of time in NW Scotland and when we are there we provide food for pine martens and badgers. In the winter the badgers might visit one or two nights in three but it would not be too much of an exaggeration to say both animals visit more or less every night.

We were concerned that we might be making them dependent on the food we provide but after a number of years we are happy this is has not occurred.

There are times when the house we use is empty for a number of weeks but within a couple of nights of us arriving and putting food out the animal visits become regular and we see a pine marten or two that we have seen on our previous visit. We find it more difficult to identify individual badgers, especially if the the only record of them is on a trail camera, but we assume they couple we see are local residents.

We think both animals have a fairly regular foraging route during the night and the garden is on their route. If they find food, they eat it, if not they move on.

Dave
 
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