Faster justice for victims or unfair to the accused?

AndrewFlannigan

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The proposed bill to speed up criminal cases, by doing away with trial by jury for less serious charges, has passed its first stage in the Commons...


I think this may do away with many injustices, especially where victims wait years, before the person who harmed them is brought to trial. Does anyone agree?
 
75/25 on this one currently. Everyone has a right to a fair trial and seems more funding which could help everyone they've decided to cut more.

Even open shut cases where will these judges find the time for these new types of trial which over simply would delay trial by juries even more

Seems to work for South Africa and other countries so maybe a hybrid model could work

1st offence trial by jury if you wish, 10th offence not this time
 
75/25 on this one currently. Everyone has a right to a fair trial and seems more funding which could help everyone they've decided to cut more.

Even open shut cases where will these judges find the time for these new types of trial which over simply would delay trial by juries even more

Seems to work for South Africa and other countries so maybe a hybrid model could work

1st offence trial by jury if you wish, 10th offence not this time
"Everyone has a right to a fair trial" . . . . . Yes, give them a fair trial then hang them.
 
I’m very much against these proposals, for the reasons put forward in the MP’s debate.

Certainly something needs to be done, the system isn’t working fairly, hasn’t for years, but giving increased sentencing powers to lay magistrates will only make matters worse, and will increase the time pressures and the delays in magistrates' courts, and taking away the automatic right to be tried by jury on indictable offences is an assault on our rights.

Magistrates first – I don’t want to be offensive to anyone who is a magistrate, but they simply don’t have enough training or experience for the powers that they already have. They tend, if anything, to be too lenient, and they make a lot of bad decisions too. A long time ago we had Stipendiary Magistrates, qualified lawyers who sat alone, who got through cases at about 3 times the speed of lay magistrates and who were far more likely to get it right. We still have them, they are now called District Judges, but they’re as rare as hen’s teeth – there’s just one, for example, in the whole of North Yorkshire.

Moving on now to the more serious cases that end up in the Crown Court, the problem with whoever sits in judgement of the facts is that they can’t help bringing their own prejudices with them, it’s human nature. Judges try very hard to leave their views and prejudices at home, but not all of them are able to do so. With juries, there are 12 individuals that also have their own prejudices, but the law of averages says that they should balance out, so the whole process should be much fairer – not perfect but by far the better option, and of course they have valuable life experiences that help them to understand the true background to the cases they hear – for example, it’s very likely that there will be several jurors on a case who have been unemployed, who struggle to pay their way in life, who have been in pubs where most of the customers are ignorant of the law and who have a criminal outlook, that simply doesn’t apply to highly-paid judges who are highly educated and who mix in very different social circles. Juries tend to be balanced, judges can only try to be balanced.

I think that this proposal is about two separate but related things
  • Reducing human rights for the poor
  • Saving money.
The ‘need’ to do something is all about the fact that all governments, regardless of their political leanings, have seriously cut the funding for the entire criminal justice system for years. There aren’t anywhere near enough Courtrooms, Judges or defence lawyers, that’s the cause of the problem, aggravated by the very low rates paid for criminal defence, and the minimum 8-month delay in actually paying the lawyers, and of course it’s now even more difficult to get legal aid, with the result that most ordinary working people have to somehow find a way of paying for their legal defence costs, and it’s only the criminals who don’t.

Disclaimer: I have never been arrested and doubt whether I ever will be, but I’m concerned about the innocent people who are, and there’s a long history of miscarriages of justice.
 
From my own experience of having to go to court as a witness on far too many occasions is the constant adjournments. A few different police officers I've asked about it said it's the lawyers stretching out their legal aid bills and they found that they usually get away with up to three adjournments. I'm not sure how much truth is in that, presumably the police will have been to far more than me so will see the pattern, but if true then perhaps they could put a stop to that and make sure cases are heard first time?
 
Id put money on the Lawyers saying the Police want to convict as soon as possible without a fair trial, everyone has different interest
 
i suspect wether we are pro/against this proposal we will all agree we need to reform the justice system and a judge based system is as close to where i believe we can make changes
 
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