fake wedding photos

sportysnaps

sportysnaps

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martin
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I have been looking at a lot of wedding photography websites recently - portals, link sites and wedding guides together with visiting many wedding fares/fairs/fayres in person and one thing that is starting to really **** me of is the amount of photographers that are using posed hired models for the photos and passing them of as genuine wedding couples.:nono:

I have no problem with a photographer hiring models posing them and listing them on their website saying “this could be you” – but when they try to pass it of as a “real wedding” that gets my back up – what go you guys think?
 
Well I guess the first question is how do you know they are hired help, I don't see a problem myself although all my Wedding shots are real Weddings.
Does it not show the kind of work that photographer actually does, they may be trying to get out of a rut, they may not have approval from actual couples to show their Wedding photos ?

As I say, I don't see a problem with it if they come up with the goods on the day and get referral work then the portfolio will grow, obviously a few of the training houses will use models and permission is granted to use those images for your marketing, it then only becomes a problem if a few people in your area have been on the same course !
 
dseered said:
Well I guess the first question is how do you know they are hired help, I don't see a problem myself although all my Wedding shots are real Weddings.
Does it not show the kind of work that photographer actually does, they may be trying to get out of a rut, they may not have approval from actual couples to show their Wedding photos ?

As I say, I don't see a problem with it if they come up with the goods on the day and get referral work then the portfolio will grow, obviously a few of the training houses will use models and permission is granted to use those images for your marketing, it then only becomes a problem if a few people in your area have been on the same course !
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the only probem i could see is that if they are staged shots they have time to mess with settings . set things up. pose the models .

when on a real wedding most toggs " from my limited knowledge" have very little time and must get the shot in seconds not /minutes only my thoughts


md:shrug:
 
dseered said:
Well I guess the first question is how do you know they are hired help, I don't see a problem myself although all my Wedding shots are real Weddings.
Does it not show the kind of work that photographer actually does, they may be trying to get out of a rut, they may not have approval from actual couples to show their Wedding photos ?

As I say, I don't see a problem with it if they come up with the goods on the day and get referral work then the portfolio will grow, obviously a few of the training houses will use models and permission is granted to use those images for your marketing, it then only becomes a problem if a few people in your area have been on the same course !
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"Well I guess the first question is how do you know they are hired help,"
when you see the same bride on several websites in different dresses



"Does it not show the kind of work that photographer actually does"
no, as it easy to take good photos of a pro model as you have all the time in the world and you have someone who will be very experienced at posing - unlike a real bride who will be nervous, not experienced and the photographer and bride will be under real time pressures


"Does it not show the kind of work that photographer actually does"
no it show what they have done with a model - if they were open about it then i would not have a problem... it shows what they did do with a model not what they can do with a bride


"it then only becomes a problem if a few people in your area have been on the same course"


what about the B + G that are being misled ?
Does it matter? - Should we ask trading standards if misleading people for money really matters?


"although all my Wedding shots are real Weddings."
as are mine you are to be congratulated on your integrity, I have many photos of models from training courses I have been on – should I pass them off as real weddings? – This is not the sort of thing I would do but is seems many will…:bat:
 
mmmm met a pro many years ago who specialised in advertising. So many others simly took his adverts and passed them off as his own work that in the end he used to carry the original slides to prove the work was his own. All about honesty and integrity really!

Any shots purporting to be the togs work should be just that, and if models are used it should be stated........
 
We have a few ideas we'd like to try out this year which require a model as you can't really practice on a real Wedding, and if those shots work they will indeed go onto display to attract a potential bride. At a meeting to show prints etc. then I'd tell them these shots were set-up, the point being now we've 'sussed' that spot/lighting style we can do it for you easily

How many 'studio' types started out by shooting their own kids, wives and puppies? Most, if not all, myself included

So do they then put 'Model shots' alongside these images on their website or print examples too? No, cos it's daft and irrelevant IMO

DD
 
I agree - fake wedding shots are bad, even worse - the ones that are taken at a training course, with a tutor setting up the lighting

Customers deserve to see what can be realistically done at thier wedding, so if Diddy Dave, pops in work that complements real weddings, that is a different thing entirley - because a bride can see the real weddings too. Nothing wrong in working with models, so long as the customer gets a true repersentation of the photographer, and the photographer explains that the conceptual work is to inspire and lead the couple

What the OP is elluding to is companies that only show fake mocked up shots. Not real weddings, with some conceptual/inspirational work in the mix

Too many photographers are not prepared to do the hard work to get somewhere. Building a real, honest portfolio takes a long time
 
Richard King said:
I agree - fake wedding shots are bad, even worse - the ones that are taken at a training course, with a tutor setting up the lighting

Customers deserve to see what can be realistically done at thier wedding, so if Diddy Dave, pops in work that complements real weddings, that is a different thing entirley - because a bride can see the real weddings too. Nothing wrong in working with models, so long as the customer gets a true repersentation of the photographer, and the photographer explains that the conceptual work is to inspire and lead the couple

What the OP is elluding to is companies that only show fake mocked up shots. Not real weddings, with some conceptual/inspirational work in the mix

Too many photographers are not prepared to do the hard work to get somewhere. Building a real, honest portfolio takes a long time
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Yep - I meant testing out a new venue, and even such as a TTD with a £30 dress we'd bin aftewards - not decamping the studio to create something unrealistic to a real wedding's timescale

DD
 
I've got to agree with Martin (sportysnaps) on this one. Funnily enough I was looking at a couple of wedding sites yesterday and thinking the same thing, it also struck me that many of the shots I see of the 'brides' don't include the groom and are obviously posed model shots at locations which do not appear to be wedding venues and where the model just happens to be wearing a wedding dress (just my opinion of course and I have no evidence to back it up).

A lot of the work is inspirational but I am not so sure it is achievable on a real wedding. My approach to the 'art images' at a wedding shoot is to get the shots I am after and then start to push the boundaries with regards to lighting, poses etc. This means I have the shots I want but it gives me a chance to experiment in a real world situation with all the usual time constraints and pressures - if the shot works all well and good but if not I can then adapt and improvise for the next wedding.
 
a lot of very obvious model shots on a site would irritate me.
but the odd one to display a togs abilities , maybe.
personaly we'd much sooner show shots of real brides.
cos its real people who are going to invest in our services.
if a size 16 lady see,s nothing but size 8 perfect ladies on your site, is she going to think
"are they going to make me look good?"
if she see's other REAL SHAPE AND SIZE women, looking good, she much more likely to go your way.
we have done model , dress shots.
for advertising for a wedding dress shop.
but thats what the client wanted.
to show their dresses in the best possible way.

loking at wedding sites?
you getting married then sportysnaps?;)
 
sportysnaps said:
I have been looking at a lot of wedding photography websites recently - portals, link sites and wedding guides together with visiting many wedding fares/fairs/fayres in person and one thing that is starting to really **** me of is the amount of photographers that are using posed hired models for the photos and passing them of as genuine wedding couples.:nono:

I have no problem with a photographer hiring models posing them and listing them on their website saying “this could be you” – but when they try to pass it of as a “real wedding” that gets my back up – what go you guys think?
Click to expand...

Thats not as bad as some photographers who buy stock photographs and put them up on their website. :)

:bang:
 
I don't think theres anything wrong with a few model wedding portraits to compliment a portfolio of real wedding images to show maybe a different syle or idea.

I think it begins to become misleading though when majority of a wedding site are staged photos, how will a potential bride tell if they are likely to be able to deliver on the day?

Anna
 
Personally I think it's dishonest to pass off posed shots taken on a course as genuine wedding shots, for all the reasons people have given.

I remember that Fuji made their models wear sashes on their courses, to stop people doing this.

I understand that beginners don't have real shots to show from real weddings. Surely the answer is for people to get some real training, i.e. as a bag carrier and then as an assistant at real weddings. Doing so will produce real photos for a real portfolio.
 
I think it depends entirley on the photographer, and the way they work.. It is totally dishonest for any wedding photographer to use Course shots or stock shots

However, if you are a wedding and studio photgrapher, who shoots engagement shoots in a controlled studio environment, and also shoots some bridal shots in the studio too.. then why not get a model in to explore your skills and creative abilities. Same applies for the togs that shoot with actual studio gear on location at weddings

As Garry wil testify - a typical studio shoot lasting all day might output 4-5 images.. and thats nothing like a realistic wedding. Equally, a brochure shoot for a venue or gown manufacturer may actually produce the same ammount of shots per day. Presenting such images in the wedding portfolio wil not truthfully repersent your work, and may land you in deep water when the B&G complain that your work is substandard. in such scenario's an arbiter normally looks a the website of the photographer, and will for sure say the work on the day was nothing like that presented. At which point the photographer with course photo's or shots that took allday to stage will be in deep feaces
 
Hi - I'm kinda new here.

I'm going to put this out there - and am prepared for the torrent of abuse!

I'm an out of work designer - just been on one of those photog courses with fake brides and groom. I agree wholeheartedly with the general opinions regarding honesty, however I can't tell you how much I learnt doing it, and how good it has been to use the pics for my own personal criticsm.

Would I use them to show potential clients? Well I'm still not sure about following this as a career (it seems that the recession is definitely driving the wedding photog training market if nothing else), but if I did, I think those shots could be used as a starting point - a suggestion if nothing more of potential shots. And of course declared as posed shots with models.

I don't see that as a problem from a client point of view. The real issue I'd imagine would simply be lack of evidence of real weddings. I guess that's something you have to earn - 2nd shooter etc? So if anyone's interested in taking me on as such (!!) I'd be very keen to learn more!
 
Mustard shots said:
Hi - I'm kinda new here.

I'm going to put this out there - and am prepared for the torrent of abuse!

I'm an out of work designer - just been on one of those photog courses with fake brides and groom. I agree wholeheartedly with the general opinions regarding honesty, however I can't tell you how much I learnt doing it, and how good it has been to use the pics for my own personal criticsm.

Would I use them to show potential clients? Well I'm still not sure about following this as a career (it seems that the recession is definitely driving the wedding photog training market if nothing else), but if I did, I think those shots could be used as a starting point - a suggestion if nothing more of potential shots. And of course declared as posed shots with models.

I don't see that as a problem from a client point of view. The real issue I'd imagine would simply be lack of evidence of real weddings. I guess that's something you have to earn - 2nd shooter etc? So if anyone's interested in taking me on as such (!!) I'd be very keen to learn more!
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I can see why you are struggling with this... But one day you have to sit in front of somone and say "this is what I can do". Honestly, if you presented the course shots - could you replicate them at the real pace of a real wedding

Courses are courses, doing the job is something else
 
Richard King said:
I can see why you are struggling with this... But one day you have to sit in front of somone and say "this is what I can do". Honestly, if you presented the course shots - could you replicate them at the real pace of a real wedding

Courses are courses, doing the job is something else
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No - I agree wholeheartedly with you, and can see that some beginners are going to be in with a very steep learning curve, and some couples may not be so happy with the results...

I know there's no substitute for experience, which is why i'm offering my services to you guys so that I can learn and hopefully prove useful at the same time. I've just found out - I've been offered a permanent job (unheard of these days, I know) so I doubt somehow I'll be stealing business from you pro's, but it is more than a hobby for me.

What do you do in-between experience and these courses? I have amateur footage from friends/relations, but beyond that the only real answer I can see is some kind of apprenticing arrangement.

But back to the point - I agree, you should not pass fake model shots off as real weddings. And to your specific point, my belief is that you should talk things through very carefully with the clients - so they know the risks involved. And ultimately, for the first shoot - kiss - keep it simple, stupid, and practice - why not do a few shoots with the bride and groom so you're both comfortable and have some idea what you can both manage?
 
With regard to Hacker's coment about Bride photos with no Groom it could just be they are part of a cherish the dress shoot. Of course that should be mentioned but I'd assume any prospective B&G would notice and ask the question if it wasn't raised by the photographer.

I've shown some such shots mixed with real wedding shots and been up front about it. That way there is no chance of losing credibility later.
 
In America this type of shot is a Bridal shot rather than a wedding.

Models & posing = bridal shoot. Simples.
 
Sporty has raised another thought in my mind irrespective of models or real couples when did we last see either on here or a togs website a bride that was less than beautiful,I guess that the majority of brides are not gorgeous and without wishing to be cruel some are Plain Janes but they deserve the same attention as the Angelina Jolie look alikes.So why dont Pro Togs put shots of these brides on their websites to prove that they are not one trick ponies and can make silk purse's out of sows ears
 
On her wedding day, no woman is a plain jane :nono:
 
Sorry Chaz, are you directing that at anyone in particular or did you just feel like a post? :lol:
 
CaptainPenguin said:
With the greatest respect I have photographed some real mingers over the years
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with the greatest respect, may I suggest that posting this sort of comment on a public forum isn't the best idea. Even if you post under a nick name you can still be id'd fairly easily from your profile, and how would it present you to a potential or past customer if they read that sort of comment

Hugh
 
I am more impressed with real world shots than a set up with a model.

I suspect potential brides do not have the experience to tell the difference.

Is it legitimate marketing? Probably... but dangerous

Because If it is found out later by a dissatisfied bride... and brought up in evidence in a claims court as evidence that she was deceived by the examples she was shown;
the Photographer would likely lose more than money... he would lose his reputation.

The moral... If you use model shots in advertising ... be honest and say so.
 
This is tricky because there are companies that, if you train with them, will stage a wedding and positively encourage you to use the images you shoot in your promo images. Thing is, if you're new, and paying for advice, then you're very probably going to take it.
I think if you've got a mix of real and staged it's probably fine. If everything you show is based on staged images, less so.

L
 
Headless Lois said:
This is tricky because there are companies that, if you train with them, will stage a wedding and positively encourage you to use the images you shoot in your promo images. Thing is, if you're new, and paying for advice, then you're very probably going to take it.
I think if you've got a mix of real and staged it's probably fine. If everything you show is based on staged images, less so.

L
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Thats interesting,
I attended a wedding and portrait training course last year and the guy that ran it told us in uncertain terms not to use the images for any publicity or submission to BIPP etc. The words fraud and trading standards were used. A few people on the course were a bit miffed though, I think they planned a website revamp based on the course images!
 
paul_g said:
Thats interesting,
I attended a wedding and portrait training course last year and the guy that ran it told us in uncertain terms not to use the images for any publicity or submission to BIPP etc. The words fraud and trading standards were used. A few people on the course were a bit miffed though, I think they planned a website revamp based on the course images!
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Hmm..maybe it is something to do with who has done the staging. The training I am thinking of, you are left time with your b+g to photograph them how you want, which is different to someone else setting up a shot and letting you shoot it.
Or maybe things have changed because this was 4 years ago!

L
 
OK then, here's a quick example. Not had much in the way of PP thanks to my still absent PC but...................

Who would like to hazard a guess at this one.

Model?
Staged shoot?
Real life wedding?

Place your bets.............;)

showphoto.php
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I will and do mix model shoots with real life weddings. When I get my website updated I will have a good half a dozen weddings that people are free to browse. I also have a section for portraits and that is where any model shoots appear. That way I can happily separate them on my website.

As for promotional material, yes I'll use model shots for that. I want to represent the best I can do and sometimes getting the best means staging it. When you have brides who refuse to even walk on the grass it can be a little limiting in terms of location never mind wandering through sand dunes.
 
AliB said:
OK then, here's a quick example. Not had much in the way of PP thanks to my still absent PC but...................

Who would like to hazard a guess at this one.
Click to expand...

Ahem, you talked about this shot in another thread not so long ago so unfortunately that cat is well and truly out of the bag :D
 
I know :) (Some people don't read my inane ramblings you know ;))

But it is a good example of what is/is not a proper wedding shot. There is no groom, he was in the bar. Bride on her own and in an untypical location for a bridal shot.

Yet it was shot on a real live wedding. :)
 
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