Exposure: Bird Photography

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Hi all,

Scenario: Stonechat against a blue sky on a sunny day.

Is it possible to expose all areas of the bird correctly without having to rely on post processing to recover?

Thanks in advance for any thoughts.
 
Sure, but it kind of depends on what you consider correct... i.e. bright white feathers showing no detail is often correct in direct sun. And depending on your camera you could use a dynamic range extending exposure mode.

But personally, with my cameras, I prefer to underexpose a bit by using a lower ISO.
 
Songbird Admirer said:
Hi all,

Scenario: Stonechat against a blue sky on a sunny day.

Is it possible to expose all areas of the bird correctly without having to rely on post processing to recover?

Thanks in advance for any thoughts.
Click to expand...
Could try flash, the light carries a long way with the right iso
 
Songbird Admirer said:
Hi all,

Scenario: Stonechat against a blue sky on a sunny day.

Is it possible to expose all areas of the bird correctly without having to rely on post processing to recover?

Thanks in advance for any thoughts.
Click to expand...

I don't think that scenario is huge problem, challenging maybe but doable ...... it also depends on the light you mention, which can vary as it's a ballpark statement. It also depends on the amount of whites on a bird, Stonechats have those whites at the base of the neck and shoulders, which is quite a significant part of the bird but a little over exposure in a few areas of those whites does little harm to an image. Use the histogram, that will tell you if you're blowing the whites, if you get the exposure as far over to the right on the histogram without it touching the side, you'll know you have the best exposure (in most cases) for the scenario you're in.

I find myself in a similar position quite often but with different light, usually a dark background but the bird I'm photographing at the time can be in strong daylight. Kingfishers have a white throat area and a blaze on each side of the neck, those can be a nightmare to control. I used to expose for those white areas but the background often ended up black, which I wasn't keen on. I had to find a compromise in the end and I don't mind now, losing a little of the whites to control the rest.

I also don't think I'd want a pure blue sky as background.

The best thing to do, is to try and time things for when the light is more even or softer........... and more forgiving. You will always struggle on a bright, summer's day anywhere between 11am and 6 ish pm. I know that's not often (the ideal light) as this is wildife we are talking about, we have to play by its rules, not ours but when it comes together, it's incredibly satisfying.
 
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sk66 said:
Sure, but it kind of depends on what you consider correct... i.e. bright white feathers showing no detail is often correct in direct sun. And depending on your camera you could use a dynamic range extending exposure mode.

But personally, with my cameras, I prefer to underexpose a bit by using a lower ISO.
Click to expand...

To me, 'correct exposure' would mean the whites aren't blown and you can see the detail on the feathers as with any other colour of the feathers, equally all of the other colours on the bird are also correctly exposed without having to edit in post processing.

I've recently moved from a superzoom (Nikon P950) to a mirrorless body and lens (Sony 200mm to 600mm). 'Have to say that while in just about every possible circumstance, the Sony performs better, I'm struggling to get to grips with it on a bright day with a bird of various colours (the Nikon P950 performed better in bright light, bird of various colours to this point). Mind you, I did produce this a few days back so not all bad.

Black Redstart by Paul Young, on Flickr

The Sony has a DRO setting and I have it set to auto.
 
dibbly dobbler said:
I'm confused by the question Paul - why wouldn't it be possible? I could see why the sky might be blown but the bird should be fine I'd have thought (sorry if I am missing something!)
Click to expand...

Feel free to explain, mate.

A bird of various colours: say including white, red, black on a bright sunny day. On an overcast day I'm not having a problem at all. What are you doing to ensure the whites aren't blown and the darker parts of the bird are correctly exposed (on a bright sunny day)?
 
Ah - I get you now, sorry. I don’t think there’s any magic method to it - try to protect the highlights as far as possible then recover the shadows as best you can in post (eg by shooting a stop under via exposure compensation). Your Sony should have a whole lot of adjustability in the RAW file so you should be able to get a good result in what is an inherently tricky situation. Cheers
 
Songbird Admirer said:
Feel free to explain, mate.

A bird of various colours: say including white, red, black on a bright sunny day. On an overcast day I'm not having a problem at all. What are you doing to ensure the whites aren't blown and the darker parts of the bird are correctly exposed (on a bright sunny day)?
Click to expand...
Depending on the light as with many forms of photography if the dynamic range of the lighting is more than your sensory can record, you need to decide which is the more important - highlights or blacks. The general rule of thumb is to not burn out the whites but obviously image dependent.
Unlike with landscape it's pretty impossible to take multiple images and blend in post
 
Songbird Admirer said:
To me, 'correct exposure' would mean the whites aren't blown and you can see the detail on the feathers as with any other colour of the feathers, equally all of the other colours on the bird are also correctly exposed without having to edit in post processing.
Click to expand...
This is not generally possible in direct/strong light if it includes opposite extremes (black/white). It almost always requires editing, but sometimes the camera will do it internally/automatically. E.g. your P950 had active D-lighting, which underexposes to save highlights and brings up dark areas automatically (digitally) for the recorded jpeg; or in NX Studio for raw files. Your Sony probably offers something similar; but automatic edits/jpegs also have potential negatives as well.
 
dibbly dobbler said:
Ah - I get you now, sorry. I don’t think there’s any magic method to it - try to protect the highlights as far as possible then recover the shadows as best you can in post (eg by shooting a stop under via exposure compensation). Your Sony should have a whole lot of adjustability in the RAW file so you should be able to get a good result in what is an inherently tricky situation. Cheers
Click to expand...

Cheers Mike. Aye, that's pretty much as I understood it in terms of what people are doing, i.e. concentrate on getting the white parts correctly exposed and sort out the under exposure elsewhere in the scene in post processing.

Just wondered if anyone has the magic: bright sunny day, say Stonechat with blue sky in the background. I haven't come across anyone who can explain how to get correct exposure (in-camera) of the entire bird in this scenario.
 
taxboy said:
Depending on the light as with many forms of photography if the dynamic range of the lighting is more than your sensory can record, you need to decide which is the more important - highlights or blacks. The general rule of thumb is to not burn out the whites but obviously image dependent.
Unlike with landscape it's pretty impossible to take multiple images and blend in post
Click to expand...

Cheers. As I thought and have been doing. 'Was just wondering if anyone has the magic. Seems not. I've asked this question elsewhere by the way.

I don't mind at all if that's the way it is; I'm only asking the question so that I know I'm not missing something I should be doing and I can move on to learn something else instead of wasting time with the not possible.
 
sk66 said:
This is not generally possible in direct/strong light if it includes opposite extremes (black/white). It almost always requires editing, but sometimes the camera will do it internally/automatically. E.g. your P950 had active D-lighting, which underexposes to save highlights and brings up dark areas automatically (digitally) for the recorded jpeg; or in NX Studio for raw files. Your Sony probably offers something similar; but automatic edits/jpegs also have potential negatives as well.
Click to expand...

Cheers, as I thought.

By the way: the Nikon P950 does a much better job in the scenario I've described. I mean, really, very impressive. Is that due to a much smaller sensor that lets in less light or because Nikon's ADL function does much better with shadows and highlights than Sony's DRO function. I reckon the latter definitely plays a part in this.

It was that good that when I wanted to move to a mirrorless camera all I had in mind was buy Nikon, because that ADL is gold. Unfortunately, for say 2 and half grand, Nikon didn't have the same value lens and body combination as Sony.
 
Songbird Admirer said:
or because Nikon's ADL function does much better with shadows and highlights than Sony's DRO function.
Click to expand...
Probably this...
But understand that ADL is just metering for highlights (underexposing) and then artificially bringing up the shadows; just as you would do in post. It is not actually combining exposures to extend the true DR capability. Sony's DRO is the same; maybe check/change the strength it is set for.
 
What Sony body are you using?

I ask this because Sony have a virtually flawless feature in some (if not all) bodies called zebras. Get these rights and you can't overexpose as long as you set things up correctly, Here's how mine works.

I set the camera up with shutter and aperture on the finger and thumb dials on the top of the camera. You can have them either way round - whatever suits you.

The large dial on the rear of the camera is then set to change the ISO

Use manual mode (its possible to use other modes in theory but the whole point here is nailing the exposure and its really easy once you get to grips with it)

Change your zebra settings in the setup menu to an upper limit of 107. The viewfinder needs to be set to the live exposure setting

Then, in the field, set your shutter speed and aperture to the levels you want and leave them alone. You then use the ISO dial to vary the exposure, and here's the key -

Any area overexposed will now show the zebras (black and white stripes) in your viewfinder and you simply turn the dial until they fade away. as soon as there are no zebras on your bird you have perfect exposure to the right with no blown highlights on the bird. The background may be a different story, and this is where you artistic element creeps in

There is a decent chance the in camera shot will be overexposed but you can refine the RAW file during processing and all areas of the bird will have detail in them

Hey presto - perfect exposures with maximum amount of data used in the file

I'm out of date with my Canon / Nikon etc knowledge, but as far as I'm aware its only Sony that have this feature, and once you figure it out it's fantastic

Hope that helps

Mike
 
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