Exciting New Reserve

Looks like there's a programme all about it on BBC2 at 8pm tonight. I like the way they call him a Scottish landowner and his accent is as English as they come! :lol:
 
haha yeah! One for my Sky + !!

Half my family moved to Scotland about 10 years ago so I could stop with them for a bit to visit it. Sounds like an interesting project....can you really see it happening though?

SB
 
Janice said:
Looks like there's a programme all about it on BBC2 at 8pm tonight. I like the way they call him a Scottish landowner and his accent is as English as they come! :lol:
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..... is he a land owner in Scotland or a landowner of Scotland - English is confusing sometimes even when it is Scottish :D

Ramblers are concerned - well he could always build covered rights of way for them such as those going though aquariums but with wire instead of glass? :woot:
 
He was on the radio this morning, thats how I heard about it. He didnt have a Scottish accent.

He said that he owns 23,000 acres and is looking for his neighbours to invest another 27,000 acres to make it a 50,000 acre "controlled" Reserve. Therefore the Wolves and Wild Boar would be "policed" by the Reserve Keepers (what a job!!!) He will offer supervised Walks and "safari" type excursions with Wildlife experts like in Africa.

He knows what he wants to do and on paper it looks good but its the Politics that will probably get in the way.

SB
 
Kerioak said:
..... is he a land owner in Scotland or a landowner of Scotland - English is confusing sometimes even when it is Scottish :D
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Yes indeed.... he could be landowner who is Scottish, or an English owner of Scottish land!!!

OR a Scot with an English accent!! :D :lol:

Whichever he is.... I could manage the moose... but not sure about wolves pulling my wing mirrors off!! :D
 
Thats ok :) Its funny really, when I heard it I found myself thinking "I must post this on the TP Forums"

An extended family! :lol:

SB
 
Lister's not a scot, I think his family were London based, his father co-founded MFI which is where his money comes from I reckon. It's nice to see it being put to good use, not just the wildlife but he's been reforesting the estate as well.
 
one interesting observation that i've heard on the topic is that 8ft snow drifts are not unheard off in that part of the world. a drift over the boundary fence and where are the wolves going to head for?

hopefully it will be an interesting program though. alladale is a lovely part of the world.
 
I really want to visit it the area, looks stunning.

Its nice to see a millionare actually re-building the environment and looking to bring back historic animals like the wolf rather than knocking it down to build an airport or something.....

SB
 
I think its a fantasic idea

there are loads of wild empty spaces in scotland, that are just filled with heather, bracken and bareness.

It is lovely to look at , and great places to take photo's or to drive around

They idea of the reserve would bring more tourist business to scotland and would give enthusiats and togs a first hand view of these animals

I would defo visit

Mike
 
So did anyone watch the program?

I watched it on the Sky + last night.....I think its just so brilliant and I take my hat off to Paul Lister for having a go.

I think the sad part is that it looks like Scottish and EU law are going clash and he will find himself caught up in the middle of Politics.

He has my full support and im thinking of going just to tog' the Moose he has there now. He has accomodation etc all sorted out too. Heres the website.

Sorry im just pasionate about this kind of thing!

SB
 
I watched it too. Great bloke... nice to see such passion.

Like you said...........he will be putting in a fence to stop neighbours complaining... but that fence will be the bone of contention as he will then have the ramblers moaning about their Right to Roam :(

Id take it down and say "if you want to roam amongst the wolves... you are more than welcome!!" :D
 
yes indeed. I feel sorry for him and his team. Clearly such passion and the irony is he IS following the EU guidelines to re build the environment?! Its crazy.

SB
 
Just for information,

I am thinking of trying to visit Alladale for a long weekend. I have decided to see if (maybe) I could get a long weekend set up with some members of TP. It would be a very interesting and inspiring trip with some amazing results. Click here for the thread.

SB
 
I must be the odd one out cos I don't agree with what he's doing. Freedom of the countryside in Scotland has been one thing weve been blessed with as the trespass laws are different to south of the border, most of the highlands we can move about freely as long as you don't cause any damage.

Also fencing off huge areas turns the so called reserve into a zoo and enclosure which in turn makes what he's doing illegal cos law is you can't have predator and prey in the same enclosure. Next thing we'll see in the years to come when there is a healthy population of animals he has brought in is safaris shoots as other landowners do with grouse and pheasants & deer.
 
Frank I completely respect your point of view.

Can I ask how not being able to walk through Mr. Listers estate would affect walkers in the area? Is the highlands not big enough for Mr. Lister to not do this project? Not being from that part of the world I can not argue your point as I simply can not relate to the scale of the highlands? What is bothering the locals so much about the fence? Are there no other places to walk?

I look at it from a few angles,

1) The environment and wildlife
2) Photography lol
3) The land, as portrayed in the documentary, seems nothing like it was originally, surely you would encourage the land to flurish as a walker and admirer of the highlands?

SB
 
Although I respect other points of view and think that the Scots Freedom to Roam is generally a good thing I completely agree with shrimper - there's plenty of land left for everyone BUT there is much benefit to be derived from allowing Paul Lister to proceed. Would you rather roam thro' degraded farmland (however beautiful) or thro' a rich, natural landscape with stands of Caledonian Pine, wildflowers and impressive fauna?

The fences are necessary short-term and PL should perhaps seek EU and Scottish Heritage backing to get his reserve designated as a scientific study in reafforestation and re-wilding. Eventually the fences could maybe come down.

In Spain (Picos de Europa and other areas) people live alongside bears and wolves quite happily - I know, I've been and I've talked with locals. Occasional predation of livestock is (or was) compensated by the government. In some remoter areas the main income was from hunters and tourists who would not otherwise have gone there if not for the wildlife.

This is a truly unique opportunity - not to be stifled by Politics or petty squabbles of the 'I know my rights and I demand my rights even if I don't want to exercise them' type. (i'm not saying that this is what anyone here is doing but am sure that someone, somewhere will. No offence meant to anyone.)

Give him a chance and EVERYONE could benefit - locals, tourists, walkers, climbers, togs and the wildlife! If it works it will become a model of what CAN BE ACHIEVED with enough willpower (in the 'right' places) and have a knock-on effect for that larger environment we call The World.

Logan's Run was a great film (of it's time) but I don't want my children to grow up in that sort of environment or have to visit a 'Tree Museum' and pay "a dollar-and-a half just to see 'em" (Joni Mitchell - You don't know what you've got 'til it's gone.)

NB. Nor am I advocating hunting but at the moment that is exactly what the whole area is - a managed land for hunting deer, shooting grouse and fishing for salmon.
 
I've no problem with the wildlife or creating new pine forest, it's the fencing that I object to. Leave the fencing out and he may find he will get more support. Perhaps PL is afraid his investments in transporting wildlife to the estate will wander off elsewhere without fencing to keep them in and no longer be able to call them his own.
 
Possibly - I don't know the guy but I feel it more likely that the fencing is required for 2 reasons:
1. Legal - you can't just release wolves and bears onto the streets but more importantly...
2. To be really effective with the reaforestation as quickly as possible he has to concentrate the animals into a small area to do their 'thing'.

I believe people will have to see results before they 'come onboard'. His land-owning neighbours, locals, the govt. He doesn't have enough land by himself to do it completely open.

As I said above I would hope the fences could eventually be removed.
 
As far as I was aware PL doesn't particularly want to put fencing in but there were protests regarding the safety of having bears and wolves roaming freely. Unfortunately you can't have it both ways.
 
Garry79 said:
As far as I was aware PL doesn't particularly want to put fencing in but there were protests regarding the safety of having bears and wolves roaming freely. Unfortunately you can't have it both ways.
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Agreed. That's what I mean about people needing to see results before the 'come onboard'.

Once they see the results and their fears are (hopefully) allayed there will be no need for fencing.

The other thing - and it's a really 'daft' point - is that if he erects a barrier around a sapling or group of saplings to stop them being eaten by deer he could technically be committing an offence!
 
A fence offence at that!
 
frank said:
I must be the odd one out cos I don't agree with what he's doing. Freedom of the countryside in Scotland has been one thing weve been blessed with as the trespass laws are different to south of the border, most of the highlands we can move about freely as long as you don't cause any damage.

Also fencing off huge areas turns the so called reserve into a zoo and enclosure which in turn makes what he's doing illegal cos law is you can't have predator and prey in the same enclosure. Next thing we'll see in the years to come when there is a healthy population of animals he has brought in is safaris shoots as other landowners do with grouse and pheasants & deer.
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Some people on this thread have said they have complete respect with your opinion, but I on the other hand have none at all. You remind me of those posh folk that walk around with their bonnets on waving their pipe about at the very thought of living with a small inconvenience. Frankly I hope this idea goes ahead and I hope it expands. Scotland might look small on the map but the amount of unpopulated land free for you and I to walk on is massive. I think it's a small sacrifice for what will essentially be reintroducing so much biodiversity back into the country that was lost through the actions of some of our ancestors.

He has my full support and I'll be promoting the initiative on my own site through choice.
 
the proposed fence to keep animals in is worrying local ramblers who want to safeguard their right to roam.
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Who would want to roam over land occupied by hungry brown bears and wolves?
 
I think it'd be pretty exciting :D for a few minutes before I'm mauled.
 
KayJay said:
Some people on this thread have said they have complete respect with your opinion, but I on the other hand have none at all. You remind me of those posh folk that walk around with their bonnets on waving their pipe about at the very thought of living with a small inconvenience.
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No-one is asking you to respect my opinion, if you don't respect it then fair enough your entitled to say so but don't make remarks about what kind of person I am unless you know me personally. Your comment about bonnets and pipes is unwarranted here.
 
frank said:
No-one is asking you to respect my opinion, if you don't respect it then fair enough your entitled to say so but don't make remarks about what kind of person I am unless you know me personally. Your comment about bonnets and pipes is unwarranted here.
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Sigh, I never said you were one of those people, I said you 'sounded' like one of those people. You're response makes me firmly believe it now though ;)

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for rambling and people being able to enjoy the beauty of the country, but let's be sensible here, you can walk around it right?

I think I know what your opinion is but what's more important, an increase in biodiversity that would have huge positive impact on the environment, or you walking through a field?
 
I saw a moose yesterday, followed by a black bear but then I am in the Rockies. Good luck to him, hope it works out.
 
You remind me of those posh folk that walk around with their bonnets on waving their pipe about at the very thought of living with a small inconvenience
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KayJay said:
Sigh, I never said you were one of those people, I said you 'sounded' like one of those people. You're response makes me firmly believe it now though ;)
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Read back on what you said, the first word you typed was YOU, as I said before you do not know me, and have no cause to make stupid comments on what sort of person you think I may be like.
 
frank said:
Read back on what you said, the first word you typed was YOU, as I said before you do not know me, and have no cause to make stupid comments on what sort of person you think I may be like.
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Sheesh. Do you really want me to quote what I said? Evidently so.

KayJay said:
Some people on this thread have said they have complete respect with your opinion, but I on the other hand have none at all. You remind me of those posh folk that walk around with their bonnets on waving their pipe about at the very thought of living with a small inconvenience. Frankly I hope this idea goes ahead and I hope it expands. Scotland might look small on the map but the amount of unpopulated land free for you and I to walk on is massive. I think it's a small sacrifice for what will essentially be reintroducing so much biodiversity back into the country that was lost through the actions of some of our ancestors.

He has my full support and I'll be promoting the initiative on my own site through choice.
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How that implies that I know anything about you is beyond me. It's also not the first word I typed.

Anyway, can we talk about the reserve now or what?
 
Well as I started this thread as a photographer excited about the prospects of some amazing wildlife and landscapes to visit I need to say this......

Whether Frank, KayJay, or anyone here agrees or disagrees with the plans for the reserve......the one thing that we ALL have in common here is the fact we all apreciate the beauty of photography.

Whether you live in the Scottish Highlands or the middle of London, we all have that in common and whatever the outcome of the reserve just the thought of having them type of animals and re-generated landscapes in a wild or semi-wild environment probably excites many of us.

Frank and KayJay...... you may not understand eachother but you are both photographers and surely can both relate to the above?

Frank I dont know what its like to live where you do. I dont know what its like to feel so strongly about roaming freely over land as I personally live in a concrete filled area of the world. My nearest walkable wildlife area was just 3 acres in size and was sold to build houses on last year. I now have to travel 25 minutes by car to visit a reserve no bigger than 5 football pitches, and the most I have ever seen there are some grey squirells and some Robins.

KayJayYou dont have to agree with someones opinion in order to respect it. Everyone has the right to disagree with someones opinion but you shouldnt say you dont respect it just because you dont agree. Frank has as much right as anyone, its Franks life and he feels as strong about his right to roam as much as you do about the environement.

--------

This thread wasnt designed for a debate, or to single anyone out :(. I wrote originally from the pure excitement of a photographer (me) who would love to see the environment improved in such a way that it gives us photographers the chance to capture something special TOGETHER and talk about the hobby/profession we love so much.

Photography.

But hey, all ^^ just my opinions right :lol:


SB


Fire away.......
 
Shogun said:
Who would want to roam over land occupied by hungry brown bears and wolves?
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ME, I would!

I have, in Spain and I can tell you that the sounds and fleeting glimpses of 2 bear cubs playing is beautiful and thrilling!

I'd love to repeat the experience. (And if the right ecosystem is in place they shouldn't be that hungry.)
 
It seems I was a in a bit of a mood yesterday and fee somewhat embarassed by what I said, for that I apologise to Frank. :(
 
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