Event entry conditions - I'm a bit confused!

[jezgb]

Hi,

Just reading the entry conditions for a regular large event which I attend and I'm a bit confused... Here is the paragraph relating to photography (with the event name removed):

The use of photographic or audio-visual equipment is allowed for private, non commercial purposes only. No unauthorised person may make, create, store, record or transmit any kind of audio, visual or audio-visual material or any information or data by any method in any media relating to the Event or any part of it. You hereby assign to [organising company name] by way of present assignment of future rights) the copyright in any audio, visual or audio-visual materials produced by you at the Event.

The first sentence, ok. No commercial use. Fine.

The second sentence - who constitutes an "unauthorised person"? I can't find a definition of this anywhere else in the conditions of entry... I assume it's someone without a entry ticket or commercial accreditation, otherwise this sentence seems to prohibit all photography / video taking.

The third sentence appears to me to claim copyright of any image produced. Surely that can't be right? I totally don't understand "by way of present assignment of future rights".

I'm an engineer, not a lawyer cap'n, to paraphrase Dr McCoy.


Cheers,

Jez.

 

[kendo1]

You're not allowed to take pics/video etc for * commercial use.
If you do, they have all the rights to it- presumably if they do give you permission to take pics by arrangement- and can use the pics for their own advertising etc.

No harm in asking though. Just give them a valid reason.
Edit:
Oops! Didn't mean to put 'private' in there *.

 

[Barrysprout]

It reads to me that, if you go along and take pictures/video/audio recording then that's fine as long as they are only for personal use. If at some point in the future these recordings were to have some value for whatever reason then you will not be able to benefit from that. If you tried to benefit you would be referred back to the entry conditions which state that you have agreed to give all rights to [organising company name]

 

[jezgb]

You're not allowed to take pics/video etc for private or commercial use.
If you do, they have all the rights to it- presumably if they do give you permission to take pics by arrangement- and can use the pics for their own advertising etc.

No harm in asking though. Just give them a valid reason.

But the first sentence explicitly states that you are allowed to take photos etc for private use. Ah - do the second and third sentences only apply to commercial use then? That makes sense... Light bulb?

Thanks Ken...

 

[jezgb]

Cheers Colin! With Ken's prodding, this is the conclusion I've come to.

 

[Raptor Mike]

Also by 'personal' do they mean you can only keep them on your home storage eg hard drive, memory stick, disc, print. I would assume it doesn't include your 'personal' facebook, flickr etc

 

[jezgb]

Erm, don't know. TBH I don't see why it shouldn't allow FB, Flickr etc use as long as they're not being offered on those services for sale or otherwise "commercially"...

 

[admirable]

I'm pretty sure they, and the official tog, wouldn't be pleased if you attended the event, took heaps of pics of competitors and then put them all on FB for free

 

[jezgb]

As it goes I don't actually put anything on FB, but I certainly do on Flickr, where the terms and conditions I apply to my images are "no commercial use".

 

[admirable]

As it goes I don't actually put anything on FB, but I certainly do on Flickr, where the terms and conditions I apply to my images are "no commercial use".

Pedantic hat on; but if any other person can download an image from your Flickr then you have not taken steps to ensure 'for personal use only'.

 

[jezgb]

I have taken steps - I have flagged the images as "no commercial use". If anyone uses them commercially they are breaking the terms of this condition. How far does this go? A screen capture is still possible which would probably be good enough for some commercial purposes. So the next response is "don't upload anything to any site at all", just to save anyone the trouble of typing...

 

[Chris Y]

Do they have a separate media accreditation? As in the most cases, event PR's manage the press side and images there are for news etc and you get accredited by outlet.

Without knowing the background here I would suggest that caveat was aimed at general attendees who wouldn't in the main be uploading content to picture desks?

If you are intending on filing images up I'd get in touch with their orgs

 

[admirable]

I would think the 'non commercial use' clause the event organisers are referring to is directly aimed at the photographer (that's you) so if they found one of your images being used by a third party they may ask you to prove you didn't sell it

 

[jezgb]

Ok, thanks for your concern chaps, but I'm happy with what I do with my images.

My original query was about the terms and conditions of this particular event and their possible applicability to an enquiry I've had. I am satisfied that I now understand those conditions and what my response will be if the enquiry does involve those images.

Thanks to all who replied for your help!


Cheers,

Jez.

 

[PaulF]

Out of interest:
"The use of photographic or audio-visual equipment is allowed for private, non commercial purposes only."

Does that not mean no uploading to any public website, Flickr/FB etc (Isn't Flickr promoted as a picture sharing site, not sharing as everyone help themselves to all images but sharing as in 'hey, look at these images').
The non commercial use is pretty obvious but would be interested in what is legally meant by private.

 

[The W]

The third sentence appears to me to claim copyright of any image produced. Surely that can't be right? I totally don't understand "by way of present assignment of future rights".

Making it a condition of entry that you assign copyright to the event holder is a pretty common, if not ubiquitous,, clause. It's how organisations like the Premier League or Formula One keep control of their world. The 'future rights' bit is about covering themselves for any and all possible expansions in copyright law.

 

[meonshore]

Hi,

Just reading the entry conditions for a regular large event which I attend and I'm a bit confused... Here is the paragraph relating to photography (with the event name removed):

Here is my interpretation of the sentences with examples.

The use of photographic or audio-visual equipment is allowed for private, non commercial purposes only.

If you are a competitor or spectator at the event you can video, goPro, or take stills at the event.

- You can look at them yourself
- You can show them to your friends, family etc on a TV, computer, smartphone or tablet providing you are not charging them for the benefit
- You can't offer the images or film for sale

No unauthorised person may make, create, store, record or transmit any kind of audio, visual or audio-visual material or any information or data by any method in any media relating to the Event or any part of it.

Unless you are accredited media for the event (i.e. officially sanctioned as media by the organisers - not just a paying spectator) then you cannot place, steam or licence the stills or film on any publicly accessible area or broadcaster. Nor can you publish timings or results, or any other applicable data.

- That means your own or others websites, stock library, youTube, Twitter, Facebook, Flikr etc

You hereby assign to [organising company name] by way of present assignment of future rights) the copyright in any audio, visual or audio-visual materials produced by you at the Event.

As a catchall they take copyright of the materials which means that if you do break this condition of entry then they own the materials and can either shut down the avenue of publication / remove materials, charge for it, and then also take you for copyright infringement. This ownership applies whether you remain within agreement as private use or commercially

This is well locked down - and my guidance would be that if you were to publish on Flikr and a competitor downloaded it (for free) then the organisers or any accredited media *could* happily come after you either from a loss of earnings viewpoint, or because you have broken their control of the event images/film.

 

[Steve Smith]

As a catchall they take copyright of the materials which means that if you do break this condition of entry then they own the materials and can either shut down the avenue of publication / remove materials, charge for it, and then also take you for copyright infringement. This ownership applies whether you remain within agreement as private use or commercially

That would be very difficult to enforce if you haven't signed anything agreeing to it.


Steve.

 

[meonshore]

That would be very difficult to enforce if you haven't signed anything agreeing to it.


Steve.

Conditions of entry.

On the basis it will be stated either on or with the ticket, when ordering, or visible at entry point, you are therefore deemed to have accepted it upon entry.

No signature require it is implicit.

 

[The W]

I imagine it's unlikely they'd come after loss of earnings (everyone knows only the lawyers would profit). Getting it taken down and being blacklisted from future accreditation is more likely. What they put effort in to going after also depends on who you're dealing with. Football seems to be pretty much locked down and they'll object to anything being shared anywhere, whereas the motorsport promoters go after any and all videos on youtube but turn a blind eye to photos shared on sites like Flickr.

 

[meonshore]

I imagine it's unlikely they'd come after loss of earnings (everyone knows only the lawyers would profit). Getting it taken down and being blacklisted from future accreditation is more likely. What they put effort in to going after also depends on who you're dealing with. Football seems to be pretty much locked down and they'll object to anything being shared anywhere, whereas the motorsport promoters go after any and all videos on youtube but turn a blind eye to photos shared on sites like Flickr.

Absolutely - but a question of scale.

If it was 1000s of entrants and I had secured sole rights to sell photographic images to competitors, sponsors and media outlets and prior years sales were in excess of £20k and I had employed a team to cover it - and then someone and a couple of their mates bunged up images on Flikr for free and hit twitter and Facebook directing competitors, media, and sponsors to it for "free images" I'd be willing to throw effort and some money at it to recover potential losses.

If it was a couple of images for a personal blog, and then wouldn't remove or purchase my versions - well then it would just be a DCMA takedown and move on.

 

[Steve Smith]

Conditions of entry.

On the basis it will be stated either on or with the ticket, when ordering, or visible at entry point, you are therefore deemed to have accepted it upon entry.

No signature require it is implicit.

Conditions have to be known before you pay for your ticket. If terms and conditions are only shown on the ticket, they are not valid as you have paid before you get the ticket. Terms of a contract cannot be changed after you enter into it.

So yes, visible at entry before you buy the ticket is fine - on the ticket, no.


Steve.

 

[admirable]

That would depend if you bought the ticket before the event

 

[meonshore]

In which case Steve and Jim it is usually in the T&Cs you tick to say you have read and understood if purchased online.

 

[Steve Smith]

That would depend if you bought the ticket before the event

You enter into a contract at the point where you pay for it. At this point, terms and conditions cannot be modified or added to.

I still think they are in a very grey area legally if they think they can just assume ownership of the copyright if you publish an image without any official, written transfer documentation. Even if you have clicked 'I agree' on their website.


Steve.