Europe Trip Spring 2013 - Advice Please!

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Hi all,

Inspired by a previous thread i am planning on taking a 2 week driving holiday around Europe (mainly France, Switzerland, Germany, Italy) spring next year. I hope to do this without booking many hotels in advance, so hope to avoid easter or any other busy periods in late spring.

I am currently at the very early stages of planning, no firm dates or locations, but have started drafting a wish list of places to visit. There are a few ‘outliers’ (eg Barcelona) that may well be removed, but i would sincerely appreciate location advice from fellow members that have previously visited the areas highlighted, and any other areas i have missed. Also if there are any events that i should try and catch would be appreciated.

1st draft of locations (there are lots in this first draft!):-

https://maps.google.co.uk/maps/ms?m...ll=49.525208,10.50293&spn=11.474223,22.236328
 
Hi Phil, we did a "Europe trip" this Summer, our first big one in a few years, and it was largely very enjoyable.
We knew that we wanted to go to Sorrento (probably would not bother again), so devised a route and places to stay using the AA route finder and Booking.com for the hotels. We found the planning really easy, and broke the trip up into stages of 400 - 500 miles each day we travelled.
Our route was:
Dover to Calais by boat (early crossing to maximise rest time/looking around at end of first stage), then Calais to Colmar in the Alsace - nice easy first day with about 430 miles travel in total, and time for a look around in the evening in the old town of Colmar.
Colmar to Bologna via Switzerland and the Gotthard Pass (was going to be the Gotthard Tunnel, but the queues were really bad, so despite my vertigo, I headed up the mountains). To be honest, this day was a complete slog, and even the stunning scenery in Switzerland and at the top of the pass did not make up for the frustration, of queues at the border in Como and then the traffic around Milan.
Bologna to Sorrento was not that bad a trip, no hold ups, just very hot, and the need to be alert to avoid the manic Italian drivers.
Sorrento to Siena an absolute nightmare trying to get out from the commercial pit and narrow roads which is Sorrento. Siena and trips to Floence more than made up for this though - Tuscany is a lovely part of Italy.
Siena to Beaujolais, just North of Lyon towards Macon. This was our final stop in Europe, four nights in the Beaujolais region (great countryside, lots to see, very relaxed, good food and wine) before returning to England.
We have a diesel and managed to cover 2800 miles in the two weeks. The fuel came to around £240 and we averaged 56MPG. The tolls came to about £120.
It was a great trip, but although I have driven in Italy before, I do not know if I would do it again. France and Switzerland were fine though, and I imagine Germany would be OK as well.
One point to note, is that if you visit Switzerland, then you pay for a years road tax, we still have ours, and may well visit the Alsace/Switzerland/Germany next year (possibly Spring) before it runs out.
Hope that this whets your appetite.

Andy
 
Hi andy. thanks for the info.

ive been looking into locations a little more, and switzerland seems to be the main area for this trip, maybe with some excursions to south east france / monaco and northern italy (lake como region).

I've found a recommend route (http://goo.gl/maps/wEWbX) from switzerland to italy, but it ends in milan which i havent heard is great for driving, so may bypass milan and head to lake como instead.

As for dates, when does the busy season start around lake como as i see you found the border area very busy. I'm pencilling in mid april to early may.

One other possibility is the use of trains in switzerland; lots of travel sites recommend them, but i may be doing things the expensive way by driving to switzerland then using a mix of trains and car when i'm there..


ps, this looks like a good day trip

http://www.pilatus.ch/en/railway-cableways/golden-round-trip/
 
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Hi Phil, I have a bit more advice.
Italy was by far the most expensive place to buy fuel (petrol and diesel), France the cheapest (using supermarkets).
From Switzerland you get to Como before Milan (at least you do if you go across the Gotthard Pass).
As you may be going to South East France (which is really great IMO), Nice (parrticularly the old part), Cannes and Antibes are worth seeing, you could take the train into Italy. Monaco is definitely worth seeing.
As for busy times, it is a major border, we went in July at the height of the season, and the best advice I could give is to get to the border as early as possible, probably before eight in the morning.
Milan is not good for driving IMO, something it shares with every other Italian city as far as I am concerned.
Year ago, we drove from Nice via Monaco to Genova, and there are some lovely places on that piece of the coast, including Portofino.
 
Hi all,

This trip is getting closer so have done some further planning. Budget is limited, hoping for accommodation approx. 50 to 75 euros per night (can spend a bit more for one or two nights).

The outline of the trip

Day 1
After overnight ferry to Le Havre, onto Giverny, to visit Monets garden and stay in Giverny for one night.

Day 2,3 and 4
Travel to Loire valley, Stay here for 2 nights. Any recommended towns / accomodation, things to do?

Days 5
Travel to Montreux, Swizerland. Visit Geneva, Montreux, Luasanne, Interlaken. Has anybody travelled in the Jungfrauregion? I am looking to do the 'top of europe' train journey but there seems to be a vast amount of routes, up to 200 euros per person....

Days 6 Onwards
Travel back to Calais via Dijon / Nancy? Open to suggestions.

Cheers all!

And thanks Andy. apologies for the delay.
 
Rapscallion said:
Hi all,

This trip is getting closer so have done some further planning. Budget is limited, hoping for accommodation approx. 50 to 75 euros per night (can spend a bit more for one or two nights).

The outline of the trip

Day 1
After overnight ferry to Le Havre, onto Giverny, to visit Monets garden and stay in Giverny for one night.

Day 2,3 and 4
Travel to Loire valley, Stay here for 2 nights. Any recommended towns / accomodation, things to do?

Days 5
Travel to Montreux, Swizerland. Visit Geneva, Montreux, Luasanne, Interlaken. Has anybody travelled in the Jungfrauregion? I am looking to do the 'top of europe' train journey but there seems to be a vast amount of routes, up to 200 euros per person....

Days 6 Onwards
Travel back to Calais via Dijon / Nancy? Open to suggestions.

Cheers all!

And thanks Andy. apologies for the delay.
Click to expand...

I stayed near(?) interlaken when I was younger and went on the steep train to the jungfrau- from what I remember it was amazing and stunningly beautiful.
 
I stayed in Interlaken many years ago also and took the train up the jungfrau, one of the highlights of my trip, well worth doing if you can fit it in.
 
Jungfrau is expensive but excellent if you have the time and the weather is kind. We got lucky and had blazing sun over the mountain and glacier, our friend the week before couldn't even see out the window!
 
desantnik said:
Jungfrau is expensive but excellent if you have the time and the weather is kind. We got lucky and had blazing sun over the mountain and glacier, our friend the week before couldn't even see out the window!
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Yep, as far as i can see, it is £140 per person? Seems a lot for a day trip!

Going to have to email them to confirm prices. There are details on this page, but not sure which route i need to take,
 
It seems confusing but makes sense when you look at a map.

Where are you staying?
 
desantnik said:
It seems confusing but makes sense when you look at a map.

Where are you staying?
Click to expand...

Looking for somewhere around the Montreux area. But since we're doing this on a budget and things are quite expensive there im still looking!
 
Has anybody here stayed on the French side of Lake Geneva.

We are looking for a hotel / apartment / b+b to use as a base for travelling around the west of switzerland for about 4 days.
 
I went up the Jungfrau when I went with my Guide unit to Switzerland about 7 years ago. I remember it being expensive but we got a deal with the travel group we used so I don't remember how much.

We went up on a pretty niceish day (the 1 day of sun on our holiday!). The views were beautiful (the sides of the train are pretty much all glass) until the last stop where you change to the train that goes in the tunnel. For us in summer it was right on the snow line - was strange looking 1 direction and seeing grass and 5m up the hill a line of snow! That train is total darkness apart from 2 stops with viewing windows where you have about 5 minutes.
The top was beautiful and in glorious sunshine. I imagine it would have been more fun had I not been herding a group of kids about. By that time there was a sea of cloud below us too so no nice views down. It was totally stunning (and bright) up the top though. I remember there being dog sledding, the ice sculptures and a few other things - some of which were closed as there'd just been some fresh snowfall or something so they needed to check the safety. I remember it being pretty cornered off where you were and weren't allowed to go so you can't just wander about by yourself on the glacier. As a one off thing it was nice but yes, expensive (especially the restaurant/cafe!).

If you didn't want to pay that but wanted to stay in the area and stretch your legs, we did a nice walk around the valley that goes to Kandersteg. I *think* we ended up at the Oeschinesee lake which was beautiful. We also did a nice walk around the gorges near Adelboden. To be fair, you can't go wrong walking anywhere in Switzerland, it's such a gorgeous country!
 
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GeordieLass said:
I went up the Jungfrau when I went with my Guide unit to Switzerland about 7 years ago. I remember it being expensive but we got a deal with the travel group we used so I don't remember how much.

We went up on a pretty niceish day (the 1 day of sun on our holiday!). The views were beautiful (the sides of the train are pretty much all glass) until the last stop where you change to the train that goes in the tunnel. For us in summer it was right on the snow line - was strange looking 1 direction and seeing grass and 5m up the hill a line of snow! That train is total darkness apart from 2 stops with viewing windows where you have about 5 minutes.
The top was beautiful and in glorious sunshine. I imagine it would have been more fun had I not been herding a group of kids about. By that time there was a sea of cloud below us too so no nice views down. It was totally stunning (and bright) up the top though. I remember there being dog sledding, the ice sculptures and a few other things - some of which were closed as there'd just been some fresh snowfall or something so they needed to check the safety. I remember it being pretty cornered off where you were and weren't allowed to go so you can't just wander about by yourself on the glacier. As a one off thing it was nice but yes, expensive (especially the restaurant/cafe!).

If you didn't want to pay that but wanted to stay in the area and stretch your legs, we did a nice walk around the valley that goes to Kandersteg. I *think* we ended up at the Oeschinesee lake which was beautiful. We also did a nice walk around the gorges near Adelboden. To be fair, you can't go wrong walking anywhere in Switzerland, it's such a gorgeous country!
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Cheers Kat. Aiming to go the end of May / start of June. Really looking forward to it!
 
I'll put it in a new post since you replied and may not notice my edit but I see your route back is very vague and open. If whatever you should decide happens to take you in that direction, I can highly recommend Pierrefonds Chateau (Pierrefonds is near Compiegne if that helps you find it!). It's the one that was used as Camelot in Merlin and is worth a visit.

I'm sure you'll love it. :)
 
Rapscallion said:
Has anybody here stayed on the French side of Lake Geneva.

We are looking for a hotel / apartment / b+b to use as a base for travelling around the west of switzerland for about 4 days.
Click to expand...

Just a thought -

The French Alps around Chamonix are stunning and very close to western Switzerland. Hotel prices will be cheaper too.
 
Rapscallion said:
Has anybody here stayed on the French side of Lake Geneva.

We are looking for a hotel / apartment / b+b to use as a base for travelling around the west of switzerland for about 4 days.
Click to expand...

Just a thought -

The French Alps around Chamonix are stunning and very close to western Switzerland. Hotel prices will be cheaper too.





oops.....
 
jerry12953 said:
Just a thought -

The French Alps around Chamonix are stunning and very close to western Switzerland. Hotel prices will be cheaper too.
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Hi Jerry,

I've just booked accommodation last night. We have indeed booked in France, in a town called Thonon les Bains on the south side of Lake Geneva (or lake Leman as ill have to learn to call it!)

Have booked 4 nights so hope that's enough time to explore the lake geneva area. Thinking of travelling up to the lake lucerne area after this, possibly taking in Jungraujoch if the weather is good.
 
GeordieLass said:
I'll put it in a new post since you replied and may not notice my edit but I see your route back is very vague and open. If whatever you should decide happens to take you in that direction, I can highly recommend Pierrefonds Chateau (Pierrefonds is near Compiegne if that helps you find it!). It's the one that was used as Camelot in Merlin and is worth a visit.

I'm sure you'll love it. :)
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Hi Kat,

ive atteded the Château to my google map.

Cheers!
 
Rapscallion said:
Day 2,3 and 4
Travel to Loire valley, Stay here for 2 nights. Any recommended towns / accomodation, things to do?
Click to expand...

I haven't been to the Loire valley myself, but I think my Mum has been a couple of times - I'll ask her for info and get back to you :)

Also, just looked at your map plan. Genova in Italy is lovely, just a really nice place to explore and wander round! I went there as part of my Euro trip a couple of years ago. Also, if you're going near Florence you should definitely go to Lucca, it's one of the most beautiful places I've been. :)
 
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If you're down in Switzerland on day six, I'd be tempted to drive up throuigh Germany's Blackforest. Via Stein am Rhien.

If you have to use any motorway in Switzerland you'll need to have a Vignette or pay a fine for not having one. BTW

Formule 1's in France are quite good to stay at if you're on a tightish budget too. they aren't fancy but are clean and inexpensive with breakfast available
 
Cheers Briony and Peter.

Initially i did intend to head to Italy (possibly the lake como area), but i think that may be pushing things a bit on this trip time-wise.

I am considering heading back from Switzerland via the Black Forest (Freiburg and Titisee possibly?), and then Nancy and Rheims.
 
Finalised our rough route:

http://goo.gl/maps/l49I3.

Comments appreciated!

Our intention is to take longer routes from
annecy > thonon les bains (taking in part of the Route des Grandes Alpes)
murren > lucerne (hopefully taking in the gotthard pass)
lucerne to Mittelbergheim (taking in part of the routes des vins alsace).

Also particularly looking forward to staying in Murren, not many towns that have access by cable car!
 
Murren is nice. Don't get ripped off going to the mountain top made famous by the worst James Bond film ever though....bandits!
 
Make sure you drive on the right side of the road! Very easy to forget when you pull out of a petrol station onto an empty rural road...
 
desantnik said:
Murren is nice. Don't get ripped off going to the mountain top made famous by the worst James Bond film ever though....bandits!
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Hi desantnik, i was thinking about going up either schilthorn or jungfrau if the weather was good. the views look spectacular. Ill make sure i eat first!


Voldemort said:
Make sure you drive on the right side of the road! Very easy to forget when you pull out of a petrol station onto an empty rural road...
Click to expand...

Something similar happened to me once in USA, turning left on a set of traffic lights...
 
That looks a great route Phil, loads of impressive scenery. I was really impressed with the Alsace "en route" to Italy last year, so a couple of days ago, I booked 8 nights near Colmar in June. It seems like a good base for seeing the Black Forest, doing the Route du Vin and seeing all the stunning chateax and fairytale castles in the area.
 
Yeah the schilthorn, thats what I was talking about... bit of a rip off. Jungfrau is impressive though.

Some nice shops in Murren though - make sure you have lots of money though!
 
desantnik said:
Yeah the schilthorn, thats what I was talking about... bit of a rip off. Jungfrau is impressive though.

Some nice shops in Murren though - make sure you have lots of money though!
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Looking forward to spending the night in Murren. Will lave to leave tha car in Lauterbrunnen and take an overnight bag up.

Regarding Shilthorn i was recommended ot over Jungfrau as being less 'touristy' and quieter, should i do Jungrau instead, or was it just the cafe that you thought was a rip off?
 
andy700 said:
That looks a great route Phil, loads of impressive scenery. I was really impressed with the Alsace "en route" to Italy last year, so a couple of days ago, I booked 8 nights near Colmar in June. It seems like a good base for seeing the Black Forest, doing the Route du Vin and seeing all the stunning chateax and fairytale castles in the area.
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We'll hopefull be able to see some of the local scenery. Hope to take in some of the alsace wine route while travelling from lucerne to mittelbergheim. We are also spending the night in a b+b in a vineyard:

http://www.vins-wittmann.fr/

Have spent a lot of the past month or 2 on tripadvisor and booking, a wealth of information for somebody who has only visited france on a school trip.

Have also found via michelin to be a useful resource, as well as france voyage.
 
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Rapscallion said:
Looking forward to spending the night in Murren. Will lave to leave tha car in Lauterbrunnen and take an overnight bag up.

Regarding Shilthorn i was recommended ot over Jungfrau as being less 'touristy' and quieter, should i do Jungrau instead, or was it just the cafe that you thought was a rip off?
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Its just not the same really, one is as high as you can get and has staggering glaciers, the other us just another mountain top that featured in the worst Bond film ever :-)
 
I can definitely recommend you stop in Colmar for a little walk around the town; pretty picturesque and historic. Just a short trip from Colmar is again another quaint, photo friendly town, Kayserburg, along with an important war memorial in Sigolsheim. It's on a large hill, and offers great view of the valley floor.

You're also driving through some prime, expensive wine country when passing through Beaune, and the Alsace region. Not sure if you're into wine, but I can also recommend a stop in Reims and visit the Taittinger caves; well worth the visit, as is Reims cathedral.

Enjoy the trip.
 
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desantnik said:
Its just not the same really, one is as high as you can get and has staggering glaciers, the other us just another mountain top that featured in the worst Bond film ever :-)
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Jungfrau it is then, weather permitting..
 
mindcrime said:
I can definitely recommend you stop in Colmar for a little walk around the town; pretty picturesque and historic. Just a short trip from Colmar is again another quaint, photo friendly town, Kayserburg, along with an important war memorial in Sigolsheim. It's on a large hill, and offers great view of the valley floor.

You're also driving through some prime, expensive wine country when passing through Beaune, and the Alsace region. Not sure if you're into wine, but I can also recommend a stop in Reims and visit the Taittinger caves; well worth the visit, as is Reims cathedral.

Enjoy the trip.
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Hi Sid, Colamr is on the list, we will be travelling up the Alsace wine route from lucerne so hopefully will see a few of the smaller towns.

We are also spending a night just south of epernay, where we may see he moet and mercier caves.


Leaving in 25 days!
 
mindcrime said:
I can definitely recommend you stop in Colmar for a little walk around the town; pretty picturesque and historic. Just a short trip from Colmar is again another quaint, photo friendly town, Kayserburg, along with an important war memorial in Sigolsheim. It's on a large hill, and offers great view of the valley floor.

You're also driving through some prime, expensive wine country when passing through Beaune, and the Alsace region. Not sure if you're into wine, but I can also recommend a stop in Reims and visit the Taittinger caves; well worth the visit, as is Reims cathedral.

Enjoy the trip.
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We have been to Beaune numerous times, I love going there, loads of history and the walled town is very interesting.
It is worth spending a week there, just to sample the wines of Burgundy and enjoy the cuisine.
 
andy700 said:
We have been to Beaune numerous times, I love going there, loads of history and the walled town is very interesting.
It is worth spending a week there, just to sample the wines of Burgundy and enjoy the cuisine.
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Hi Andy, we will be passing through Beaune on the way from Auxerre to Annecy. Unfortunately that means just a couple of hours rather than a week!
 
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