EssentialPhoto

Not used them but for me I would be concerned over the quality of their softboxes for serious business use. They are even cheaper than Interfit which I have seen and aren't exactly great. You can't beat working with quality softboxes from the likes of the usual suspects but then everyone has to make their own decision from an ROI perspective.

It's pretty hard to screw up beauty dishes- well it's not impossible but there may be something in buying one over say a Bowens one.
 
Dr_O said:
Not used them but for me I would be concerned over the quality of their softboxes for serious business use. They are even cheaper than Interfit which I have seen and aren't exactly great. You can't beat working with quality softboxes from the likes of the usual suspects but then everyone has to make their own decision from an ROI perspective.

It's pretty hard to screw up beauty dishes- well it's not impossible but there may be something in buying one over say a Bowens one.
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All that varies on the majority of modifiers is the brand stamp.
 
Well they're more expensive than Bessel by quite a way. And plenty of people use Bessel modifiers. They're loads more expensive than my free Octobox too.

That said the grids look better than Bessel, which might mean they're better all round.
 
JennyGW said:
All that varies on the majority of modifiers is the brand stamp.
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That's not true, my Bessel soft box is on its last legs after 18 months, far older bowens ones are still looking good.
 
boyfalldown said:
That's not true, my Bessel soft box is on its last legs after 18 months, far older bowens ones are still looking good.
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Sorry, but my point is, a lot of gear coming out of Shenzen is branded by various names. Profoto for example. Know where to buy the gear without Profoto stamped on it can save a lot of money.

On the point you make about the quality of gear coming from different manufacturers. My Westcott 43" umbrella fell apart. Struts were weak and bent. The stitching was coming apart all over the place. It was a nasty cheap badly made product. Check out reviews on Amazon on the Westcott Apollo, more examples of the same.
 
JennyGW said:
All that varies on the majority of modifiers is the brand stamp.
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Sounds similar to the 'they're all made in the same factory- it's just the label that's different'.

Careless statements to make on forums lest people actually believe it because it's just wrong.

People like to believe that a generic £130 softbox is the same as a £570 Bowens one but it doesn't take buying both, a trip to Chinese factories or an MBA to work out that they are not; quality of metal- what tensile strength does it have- a major issue in China, quality of material, quality of reflection etc etc. That's not to say there is never shared components or that big brands don't get careless and get screwed by a supplier.

The fact remains there is a difference but each person needs to decide whether it's worth it for them.
 
Dr_O said:
Careless statements to make on forums lest people actually believe it because it's just wrong.
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I suggest you talk to a few more brands about where they get their gear made.

I am not saying ALL gear is made in the same place, that would clearly be foolish. I am saying that a lot of brands use the same manufacturers and then apply widely different pricing.
 
JennyGW said:
I suggest you talk to a few more brands about where they get their gear made.

I am not saying ALL gear is made in the same place, that would clearly be foolish. I am saying that a lot of brands use the same manufacturers and then apply widely different pricing.
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Ok, please name the factory that is producing Profoto gear and then different mark ups are being applied to the same kit. I've got a lot of contacts in China so shouldn't be too hard to get to the bottom of this one
 
Leave China out of this, China has changed dramatically during the last few years.
Sure, there are still some very dodgy little backstreet 'factories' in China that copy other people's products badly, with everything made down to a price, but China now leads the world in technology and is more than capable of producing top quality.
JennyGW said:
Sorry, but my point is, a lot of gear coming out of Shenzen is branded by various names. Profoto for example. Know where to buy the gear without Profoto stamped on it can save a lot of money.

On the point you make about the quality of gear coming from different manufacturers. My Westcott 43" umbrella fell apart. Struts were weak and bent. The stitching was coming apart all over the place. It was a nasty cheap badly made product. Check out reviews on Amazon on the Westcott Apollo, more examples of the same.
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Profoto is NOT made in China. Some other 'top' brands are
JennyGW said:
I suggest you talk to a few more brands about where they get their gear made.

I am not saying ALL gear is made in the same place, that would clearly be foolish. I am saying that a lot of brands use the same manufacturers and then apply widely different pricing.
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This is very true. Just as an example, our own softboxes are made in the same factory and use the same materials as another brand that is far more expensive. BUT that same factory also makes softboxes that are very cheaply made from poor materials
 
Garry Edwards said:
Leave China out of this, China has changed dramatically during the last few years.
Sure, there are still some very dodgy little backstreet 'factories' in China that copy other people's products badly, with everything made down to a price, but China now leads the world in technology and is more than capable of producing top quality.
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China has changed considerably in some respects but there is still a huge problem with corruption and it's not just backstreet factories that are involved or are impacted by it. We spend millions of pounds a year in China and have to have a lot of extra processes in place to check the raw materials and make sure they are safe and meet the ISO standards required but there's no debate that they can't produce quality products as it's been proven they can.

Garry Edwards said:
...our own softboxes are made in the same factory and use the same materials as another brand that is far more expensive. BUT that same factory also makes softboxes that are very cheaply made from poor materials
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Agreed, this is why manufacturing is a complex issue- there are plenty of grey areas; I've been in electronic factories where the same transistors, capacitors, labour etc are used and the only difference are the PCB's, name on the case and price. That's not to say things like guarantees etc aren't playing a factor- each company has its own markup strategy which will have to take into account a number of different things- raw material and labour for a start.

It's fair to say that branding does not have the same allure it used to and big brands do get caught out trying to reduce their costs with unexpected consequences from QC issues.

Do you think Lencartas profit margin is the same as some of the other well known brands and the difference in absolute cost is that they have more factors to take into account to reach that final price or do you think their profit margin is much greater and they are merely using their name to justify it?

One things for sure- the really cheap companies are still turning a profit, so there's a compromise there somewhere- they aren't giving things away for free- except to Phil, who has a 'free' Octobox:thinking::p
 
Dr_O said:
China has changed considerably in some respects but there is still a huge problem with corruption and it's not just backstreet factories that are involved or are impacted by it. We spend millions of pounds a year in China and have to have a lot of extra processes in place to check the raw materials and make sure they are safe and meet the ISO standards required but there's no debate that they can't produce quality products as it's been proven they can.



Agreed, this is why manufacturing is a complex issue- there are plenty of grey areas; I've been in electronic factories where the same transistors, capacitors, labour etc are used and the only difference are the PCB's, name on the case and price. That's not to say things like guarantees etc aren't playing a factor- each company has its own markup strategy which will have to take into account a number of different things- raw material and labour for a start.

It's fair to say that branding does not have the same allure it used to and big brands do get caught out trying to reduce their costs with unexpected consequences from QC issues.

Do you think Lencartas profit margin is the same as some of the other well known brands and the difference in absolute cost is that they have more factors to take into account to reach that final price or do you think their profit margin is much greater and they are merely using their name to justify it?

One things for sure- the really cheap companies are still turning a profit, so there's a compromise there somewhere- they aren't giving things away for free- except to Phil, who has a 'free' Octobox:thinking::p
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Our absolute cost is higher for a number of reasons.
1. Production cost. Wherever possible we use existing tooling, which is always a very major cost, but what's inside the box is to our own specs, which is much more expensive than taking standard products from the factory.
2. Lead times. Much longer, because of (1). Because of this we are liable to have to ship a lot in by air, which again is expensive.
3. Large production runs, again because of (1). This impacts on cashflow
4. Customer service
5. Warranty, 3 years in our case.
6. Repairs. Most suppliers just swap out units whilst under warranty and can't offer out of warranty repairs. We have our own repair department, plus stocks of parts. Every time we launch a major new product we have to send someone out to the factory for a 2 week training course.

I'm not going to discuss profit margins, in fact I don't even know what they are because I don't make the decisions and so don't need to cloud my own judgement with this knowledge when giving advice to customers on what to buy.

If you look at the people selling the cheapest kit on Ebay, they are generally working on extremely slim margins - but their warranty only has to extend until after negative feedback can be left by their customers, so that's 30 days at most. There is no doubt in my mind that certain well-known brands are still pricing based on legacy reputation, even though their quality and QC have gone down the pan. This works for them to a limited extent, but even core customers such as schools and the military are now looking elsewhere (as I write, there is a very full pallet on the warehouse floor waiting for collection to just 1 large customer, and not a trade customer either) and the Company I have in mind is struggling to keep its factory running. I am expecting them to be sold (again) soon, and for an associated Company to disappear completely.

There's another well known manufacturer, this time at the cheaper end but with what must be very high margins considering their cost base, which is struggling too.

As for newcomers who are entering the market as sellers rather than manufacturers... I wish them luck. They'll need it.
 
Thanks Garry, it will be interesting to see how things pan out in your market. The economic slowdown in China has been a concern for me for a while but what will happen will happen to an extent and everyone will just need to adapt accordingly.
 
Ok, let's try starting again :)

This was the OP, it was a long time ago, so I'll post it again ...

Has anyone used softboxes/beauty dishes from these guys, please?

http://www.essentialphoto.co.uk/

Their prices look pretty good, wondering if they are a compromise?

Thanks,
Jenny
 
Having had a 2nd look at the website, didn't they have a large stand at the Photography Show?

The stuff looked nice, but they're fairly new so I'm not sure how it'll last. The Pixapro gear is also available direct from Pixapro on Amazon. Same prices, but again no reviews.

The cheaper softboxes aren't recessed, by the time you get to the larger and recessed ones they're not that cheap.
 
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Phil V said:
Having had a 2nd look at the website, didn't they have a large stand at the Photography Show?

The stuff looked nice, but they're fairly new so I'm not sure how it'll last. The Pixapro gear is also available direct from Pixapro on Amazon. Same prices, but again no reviews.

The cheaper softboxes aren't recessed, by the time you get to the larger and recessed ones they're not that cheap.
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Yes, they had a huge stand at the Photography Show. Very helpful on the phone, nice people to deal with.

I've gone for the 120cm Octagonal Softbox + grid and a 55cm silver beauty dish with grid and diffuser. Will review when I've had time to give them a good test, Also picked up a couple of cheapish brollies from Bessell, both 90cm, one shoot through, one silver reflective. The emphasis now is getting a basic kit to get started, can switch out as I can afford/learn what I need.
 
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I have one of their brolly strip boxes . I have only had a chance to use it once , the quality isn't great but not bad and on par with my Bessel octo . The 4cm grid makes a change to the more open ones that usually come prepacked with these products . I'm not too sure how long the box will last , I only tend to use lightly so I'd think a fair while and I would buy another if in the market for one . I bought mine through Amazon as I was unsure about buying direct from a little known company .
 
BigJohn said:
I have one of their brolly strip boxes . I have only had a chance to use it once , the quality isn't great but not bad and on par with my Bessel octo . The 4cm grid makes a change to the more open ones that usually come prepacked with these products . I'm not too sure how long the box will last , I only tend to use lightly so I'd think a fair while and I would buy another if in the market for one . I bought mine through Amazon as I was unsure about buying direct from a little known company .
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Thanks, BigJohn, good feedback. Overall, reassuring :)
 
No worries , I have considered one of their beauty dishes but don't think it would get as much use as my soft boxes to justify the cost .What made you choose the silver 55cm ? I was looking at the large white one for a softer light as I think the silver would be too harsh for most people .

John
 
BigJohn said:
No worries , I have considered one of their beauty dishes but don't think it would get as much use as my soft boxes to justify the cost .What made you choose the silver 55cm ? I was looking at the large white one for a softer light as I think the silver would be too harsh for most people .
John
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I agree with you, if I was using the dish without other modifiers I'd have gone for white.

I felt the dish and large octabox would give me a good range of styles:-
- Dish on its own, pretty hard light, can grid and control
- Dish with Octabox. Octa for fill and B/Dish for accent.
- Clamshell with octa/reflector. Dish/grid hairlight.

I've also got a couple of largish umbrellas, a shoot through and a silver. I've got a 4 light setup, pretty much two front, two back. The back can be used for hair/separation/background, etc.

I'm shooting actor headshots/portfolios/potraits.

Right now these are all ideas based on experience with Speedlites and a lot of studying. I can't wait to get going and make it happen. Getting there .....
 
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You'll have to let me know how you get on with the dish . I've used a white one , but never knowingly seen the results from a silver one . Also if you defuse the dish it acts like a soft box , although the bigger the better is the general rule to this .
 
JennyGW said:
...I felt the dish and large octabox would give me a good range of styles:-
- Dish on its own, pretty hard light, can grid and control
- Dish with Octabox. Octa for fill and B/Dish for accent.
- Clamshell with octa/reflector. Dish/grid hairlight.
...
Right now these are all ideas based on experience with Speedlites and a lot of studying. I can't wait to get going and make it happen. Getting there .....
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Sounds like a great start,
Garry generally recommends the white BD because it's slightly more forgiving than the silver, but if you find that you can paint it. I've only used my silver one a handful of times, and the jury is still out.
 
BigJohn said:
You'll have to let me know how you get on with the dish . I've used a white one , but never knowingly seen the results from a silver one . Also if you defuse the dish it acts like a soft box , although the bigger the better is the general rule to this .
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I'll definitely post a review with example shots. Forgot to say, I chose the 55cm as a half way point between 42cm and 70cm. I wanted as big as practical, but the 70cm would be a pain to take on location if I ever need.
 
Phil V said:
Sounds like a great start,
Garry generally recommends the white BD because it's slightly more forgiving than the silver, but if you find that you can paint it. I've only used my silver one a handful of times, and the jury is still out.
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Thanks :)

I've got 30 days to play with it and swap it out for a white one if needed, will see how it goes.
 
Phil V said:
Have you got a boom arm?
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Not yet, waiting to see if I want one for a stand or some sort of wall/ceiling bracket. Not sure on how it's going to work out with the backdrop system, will get that in place first. Backdrop system/dish/octabox arrive tomorrow -shed soon after that, lol (For contents of nearly clear garage, I mean studio, not for the studio itself, lol) Really excited :D
 
Personally I would avoid a boom arm attachment that fits onto a stand, I've never seen one that's safe.
Wall mounted boom arms are very safe, but are also very limited as they are in a fixed position.

The best answer, for most people, is one with its own integral stand, which is far more substantial than 'ordinary' lighting stands.

As for the choice of silver or white beauty dishes, silver are without a doubt 'better' - but require an outstanding model who is young, has perfect bone structure, perfect complexion and perfect makeup, and most photographers struggle to get models like these.
 
Garry Edwards said:
Personally I would avoid a boom arm attachment that fits onto a stand, I've never seen one that's safe.
Wall mounted boom arms are very safe, but are also very limited as they are in a fixed position.

The best answer, for most people, is one with its own integral stand, which is far more substantial than 'ordinary' lighting stands.

As for the choice of silver or white beauty dishes, silver are without a doubt 'better' - but require an outstanding model who is young, has perfect bone structure, perfect complexion and perfect makeup, and most photographers struggle to get models like these.
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I'm mostly photographing young actors/actresses. And when I want softer light I'll either combine the dish with octabox for fill or drop the dish completely.

Booms are best used on c-stands.
 
JennyGW said:
I'm mostly photographing young actors/actresses. And when I want softer light I'll either combine the dish with octabox for fill or drop the dish completely.

Booms are best used on c-stands.
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Why?
C stands have the same 16mm spiggot fitting as all other general purpose stands. That's a weak point
 
Garry Edwards said:
Why?
C stands have the same 16mm spiggot fitting as all other general purpose stands. That's a weak point
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One of countless examples:-


Not on the spigot.

My existing boom for my reflector is like this, not on a spigot. I need a second boom for my hair/separation light.
 
Ah, OK.
So it isn't mounted using the spiggot and is therefore fairly safe.

But that has nothing to do with your choice of a C stand...
 
Garry Edwards said:
Ah, OK.
So it isn't mounted using the spiggot and is therefore fairly safe.

But that has nothing to do with your choice of a C stand...
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Why are you so determined to prove me wrong when c-stands are widely popular because of their extra strength and stability?

With all of your experience, why did you assume a spigot would be used to support a boom?

You seem somewhat determined to prove me wrong.
 
There is nothing inherent to the design of a C-stand that makes them more stable.

The most important consideration is the footprint radius (rarely quoted), then the height of the struts up the vertical, and the strength of tubing and joints. C-stands are good for tripping over though, and a PITA to store ;)
 
HoppyUK said:
There is nothing inherent to the design of a C-stand that makes them more stable.

The most important consideration is the footprint radius (rarely quoted), then the height of the struts up the vertical, and the strength of tubing and joints. C-stands are good for tripping over though, and a PITA to store ;)
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I read this thread and heard the same from photographers such as Mark Wallace and Joe McNally.

Joe McNally explains the benefit of a c-stand.
Mark Wallace loves c-stands.
A general search on YouTube for c-stands shows many being used with a boom
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=c-stand+tutorial
Strobist discussion on the c-stand
https://www.flickr.com/groups/strobist/discuss/72157626732566259/

I hope this helps you :)
 
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Jenny, in those vids Joe and Mark are explaining why big and expensive heavy steel stands are good - because they're quality, versatile and rugged - and go under the generic nickname of C-stands (meaning 'century' stands, for reasons that are lost in the mists of time). They usually have that characteristic bent-leg design, though not always.

But what makes them better for booms?
 
HoppyUK said:
Jenny, in those vids Joe and Mark are explaining why big and expensive heavy steel stands are good - because they're quality, versatile and rugged - and go under the generic nickname of C-stands (meaning 'century' stands, for reasons that are lost in the mists of time). They usually have that characteristic bent-leg design, though not always.

But what makes them better for booms?
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They are more stable?
 
Stability comes from the size of the footprint, and careful set-up with weight directly over the front leg and the counter-balance.

My Manfrotto 420 Combi boom is big, heavy and stable, but it's not a C-stand. And it's more stable than some C-stands you can buy for similar money.
 
It may be worth pointing out that the stability requirements for hotshoe flashguns when used on a boom arm are very different to the requirements for studio flash heads.

And as for photographers recommending particular products in promotional videos - well, that's called advertising:)
 
That first video was odd, he was supposed to be talking about the differences of a c-stand then proceeded to talk about how a boom is useful... o_O
 
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