Epson guru's, 2400 issue.

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BlackCloud

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Admittedly I did ask for some help on this a couple of months ago but never bottomed it out...

My screen is calibrated with a Spyder Pro 3 Elite running the v4 software. All my colours look fine looking at internet pages, pictures from camera etc. etc. and if I send anything to commercial labs e.g. DSCL using their profiles everything matches in colour and brightness. If I change profiles for papers etc. changes tend to be very subtle.

I bought an Epson 2400 printer secondhand. Admittedly I have only used 3rd party inks, but 3 different brands, but my papers have been Epson and other brands. The colours really are considerably off by several shades and generally dark. I have tried printing using several different profiles, both in and out of Photoshop, and with colour managed both by PS CS4 and in printer. The results of all these changes are again quite subtle in themselves but way off the mark. I have also installed the printer on a different computer again with the same results (so win 7 x64 and vista business x64).

I know someone will say 'get the Epson ink' but at approx £100 my feeling is that the changes will only be subtle. I have compared my printer nozzle check page (shows all unblocked) with someone else with a 2400 using original inks and my compatables look identical in colour. At the moment I have not been able to try his 2400 to see if my pictures print properly as I don't know him that well.

Does anyone have anything to throw in that I may have missed? The only thing I can think of now is that there is some 'mechanical' issue. I'm reluctant to spend money on this now when it may be a case of moving on.

Apologies for the long post.
 
Hi POAH, no, but as I explained above, these profile changes appear to be only quite small and subtle changes. I have printed lots of test prints using numerous different profiles and the although I haven't used the exact right ones, there is hardly any difference between them and yet the colours are considerably off with all of them.
 
if you are not using the correct profiles then there is nothing anyone can do.
 
Thanks, I'm not sure if you read my original post fully but having played with quite a number of profiles to try and get the right colours, in my (limited) experience paper profiles seem to be quite subtle changes. This to me seems to be way off despite using compatable ink. When compared to the original Epson ink the colours look the same and I have printed on Epson paper.

I have owned several printers over the years. Even straight out the box, HP's and Epsons have printed pictures not far off the original image even without calibration. This 2400 seems considerably off.

After a bit of research on a number of forums there does seem to be a number of experienced photographers that have been severely frustrated with Epsons. I know you don't agree that the fault lies with Epson, there are several examples of people plugging in a Canon and everything is fine. In fact if I plug in my Canon A4 multi function printer, it prints very close to the screen image, as do prints sent to DSCL. At the end of the day, the only thing I haven't tried is the genuine Epson ink.

If anyone has any ideas post them up, otherwise I will either go for a new printer or see if I can get a set of inks at an acceptable price. I'd like a CISS but am reluctant to invest if there is another issue causing this problem.
 
you are using non-epson inks and trying to use profiles ment for epson ink and various papers and wondering why its not printing correctly.

I can't and I'm not sure anyone else will be able to or be arsed to help you if you are not going to take some pretty obvious advice.
 
POAH said:
you are using non-epson inks and trying to use profiles ment for epson ink and various papers and wondering why its not printing correctly.

I can't and I'm not sure anyone else will be able to or be arsed to help you if you are not going to take some pretty obvious advice.
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As poah said. Plus, the inks may look the same but if you don't try the Epson inks you will never know. 3rd party inks are often of a lesser quality than the originals, that's why they are cheaper.
 
Thanks POAH I know usually you are very helpful, but I did give my reasoning above. I am reluctant to spend another £100 on ink with no guarantees and colours that are quite a way off.

There are thousands of people using the non genuine inks specifically with this printer and no one would accept the colours as far out as those I am getting, many people must be happy with theirs. The ink colours on the nozzle check look identical to the genuine Epson. Somewhere something is going wrong. Anyway, I asked and accept your advice but was hoping someone may have had a similar issue.
 
Thanks also Ploddles... Ok, then can anyone confirm then that they have experimented with inks from say 7 day shop against the genuine Epson or even fotospeed and found the colours and darkness/brightness way off in comparison?

Does anyone notice there is much difference in profiles of different glossy papers?
 
I've had awful problems getting decent prints on non-matte paper from my Epson 1400. Matte prints have always been pretty good, and are excellent using POAH's profiles. Ilford Gallerie and Fotospeed papers (with Fotospeed CISS) both looked awful whatever I tried. But I accidentally ran some Epson paper through and it worked perfectly and HP paper looks fine too. It might be worth trying some different papers (brands and finishes) to narrow down the problem.
 
BlackCloud said:
Thanks also Ploddles... Ok, then can anyone confirm then that they have experimented with inks from say 7 day shop against the genuine Epson or even fotospeed and found the colours and darkness/brightness way off in comparison?

Does anyone notice there is much difference in profiles of different glossy papers?
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yes you can see various differences depending on the paper since coatings range from the very white to pretty dam yellow.

OCP ink has a good reputation AFAIK for good ink quality.

get a profile made and see what happens.
 
I'm sure that if you ask POAH politely he may produce a profile for you .
 
Hmmm :) Dear POAH, would you be willing to give it a try please? Not sure what I would have to do...

Just out of interest, to do my own profiles, would this be something like the Colourmunki or Spyder print?
 
I have used several Epson printers over the years and can say that when used with Epson inks the results are fine. I currently have a 2880 which is producing excellent print to screen match ( using a calibrated and profiled system) .

Now reading your posts it seems that whatever paper you use you don't get the results you want, and only see small differences when changing to different profiles. Well to me this points to the inks you are using. Printer manufacturers set their printers up to use the inks they supply. Once you deviate from this this is where things can go wrong. different inks can and do have different characteristics. This can be from how much needs to be laid down to how pure they are ( in colour terms). The manufacturer would know their own inks and encode the driver to take this into account. Change the ink to one that has a different characteristic, such as a Magenta ink which has more red characteristics than the original and you can end up in trouble.

Also are the inks you are using able to produce the original colour range that was originally intended. Less pigment or dye produces a cheaper ink, but you can't get the full range of colors originally intended. Add different paper characteristics and you have a real web of possibilities.

I have tried lower cost inks in the past and I'd say that typically they lasted about 5 prints in the machine. before they were replaced with the manufacturers original product. They are fine for letters and business documents but for use in producing quality photographic images they left a lot to be desired
 
Thanks for that explanation Chappers, appreciated. I think I will have to bite the bullet and get a set of Epson inks at least to try and take it from there.
 
Ok folks...just to say I'm big enough to admit you were right! :)

I purchased a set of genuine inks and the printer is transformed! I am amazed how far out on colour from the 3rd party inks must have been. The Epson inks print very close to my screen set up when printed on genuine Epson paper. Bloody fantastic! So thanks POAH and others for attempting to point me in the right direction.

I'd like know to get the set up properly profiled just so I know I am getting the best from the set up. I'd also like to explore getting a CIS. Anyone recommend a system/ink and paper set up for glossy or preferably a semi gloss/pearl finish?

Thanks
 
I run an epson r1800 printer with third party inks, to help with profile, I did speak to ink manufacturer and was assured the normal epson profile would work, and to be honest it seems to be OK.

I do run a set genuine epson inks through recently and the results did not look much different to the third party inks but the costs was 3 times higher.
 
Just out of interest then Ian, whose 3rd party inks are you buying and what paper are you printing on?
 
No experience with Epson, but third party inks, even quite expensive(ish) ones were rubbish on my Canon printers.
 
POAH and anyone else... seems you are happy with the colours produced by Fotospeed Permajet etc. etc. in the CIS systems. Have you tried black and white? happy with that too?
 
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