Environment issue

u8myufo

u8myufo

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Rich
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Please move mods if you feel this should be in talk nature. I am just looking for a bit of advice. I do not want to say too much at this stage, but there has been an ongoing issue with heavy smoke pollution from a local factory over an area which is quite rich in wildlife as well as plant species. This has been going on for almost two years now. I have already been to the local paper a while back and fair play they did the best they could to raise the issue with the factory. However I am at the stage now where I would like to contact and send pictures to a national paper, with the hope that not only will they contact the company`s head office but also grill the environmental agency, as to date I am not happy with there attitude to the situation. So my question is can somebody suggest which tabloid to contact given the nature of the complaint?
Thanks
 
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Scatter gun approach - write to them all.
 
Smoke or steam? - in general there should be no smoke emissions from factory processes, other than for short periods when combustion processes are started from cold (eg. oil-fired boilers). Steam isn't a problem.

Is the factory operating under a permit from the local authority or the Environment Agency? If it's local authority you should make a complaint to their Environmental Health Team, if it's Environment Agency regulated you complain to their regional office (but don't hold your breath - generally local authorities are quicker to respond). If you're not sure, make a complaint to both.

Always complain in writing and follow-up with a telephone call. You may need to ring to find out who to address the complaint to.


If you want more specific advice, PM me the name and location of the factory and I'll see what I can find out.
 
I would say go straight to the environment agency, I am sure they will investigate it.
 
Daily Mail - don't forget to mention that the factory employees asylum seekers and that you're worried that the pollution may have affected the value of your house :thumbs: :D
 
If you want a tabloid to pick it up, I suggest you take a pretty young lady to somewhere within sight of the factory, get her to remove her top and take some photos with the pollution in the background. That should get their attention!
 
Elastoman said:
If you want a tabloid to pick it up, I suggest you take a pretty young lady to somewhere within sight of the factory, get her to remove her top and take some photos with the pollution in the background. That should get their attention!
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Wearing a gas make of course
 
Rich - PM me before you contact any of the Nationals. I may have an idea for you!
 
DemiLion said:
Rich - PM me before you contact any of the Nationals. I may have an idea for you!
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So why not share it with all of us? :shrug:
 
DemiLion said:
Because it's nothing to do with you, Splog?
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So why did you not just pm Rich instead of making your comment for all members to read? :shrug: I'm really not that interested in what you have to say DemiLion!
 
Cheers for the replies guy`s, I really wish some would read the opening post first ;) This has been going on for a long time. Local authorities have been contacted previously, the guy who deals with the south west has been up here to see me. We have had a meeting with the factory and they basically admitted their equipment was antiquated after finding out that their supply of fuel was not contaminated.The factory once said well we were here before you lived here, that might be the case but the factory was not there before these houses were built. One reply from the environmental agency I had last week after phoning them at 02.30 due to a couple of drivers revving the guts out of their wagons was " well so long as it is only happening two or three times a month there is not much we can do about it" :thinking: A quick pic attached,apologies for quality but after running up the garden yesterday I just grabbed the camera whilst phoning up the EA at the same time, I missed the real Black dense smoke with the shots but have that on video. Usualy the smoke just falls down across the gardens, this factory is 24/7 and I sometimes wonder what the hell is coming out of it during the night.

IMG_0795_zpse5d9828b.jpg
 
I deal with the EA a fair bit, if this smoke had any nasty in it, the EA would be all over them like a rash !

You could always call 999 and say you see thick black smoke coming from a factory unit and then give its location, this done on a regular basis both day and night would get something done but please tell me the address as if its near my station you can forget it :)
 
Ruffy said:
I deal with the EA a fair bit, if this smoke had any nasty in it, the EA would be all over them like a rash !
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I've dealt with the EA a lot (from both sides, as a permitted process and as a member of the public) and they're generally useless and have no time for complaints from the public. They're not helpful to business either. Just an agency for collecting fees.

You mention the EA, but you don't say that you have complained through the LA EHO. That is by far the most effective route in my experience - even if the site is permitted by the EA the LA EHO will generally follow through until a result is achieved (certainly for the LA where I am). And if the site isn't permitted by the EA the EA is not likely to be friendly enough to direct you to the LA and will generally just shrug their shoulders (which they may just do even if they are the responsible agency).

The photo isn't particularly clear, very underexposed. There is certainly a lot of steam. Is there any yellow or dark grey in the persistant plume? A short burst of dark smoke is usually permitted when a boiler or other combustion process is started because it's generally unavoidable, but it shouldn't persist. If they're exhausting steam into the plume that would explain a persistant steam plume. If they're extracting too much heat from the plume that would cause poor dispersion. If it's a result of poor combustion there is a financial incentive for the company to improve things as it will save them cash to do so.

Do you know what the source of the plume is - gas, kerosene, heavy oil or coal? - you can find out from a copy of their permit. Have you read their permit? - it's a publically accessible document and you can read a copy either at the local authority offices or the local EA office. The permit must include plume dispersion modelling.

Contacting the EA about vehicles revving their engines is a waste of time, the statutory duty for noise nuissance lies with the local authority EHO (even if the factory itself is EA permitted).


In the past I have been the Residents Liaison for a company with a permitted process in the centre of a village. If you want tips on how to be the resident-from-hell as far as the company is concerned I have a lot of experience dealing with several people competing for that title!
 
u8myufo said:
One reply from the environmental agency I had last week after phoning them at 02.30 due to a couple of drivers revving the guts out of their wagons was " well so long as it is only happening two or three times a month there is not much we can do about it"
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You've changed tack here a lot, now complaining about the lorries being too loud.

Why are you calling the EA about lorries revving their engines? That's not within their remit as Alastair has mentioned. The police have enforcement powers, but it's legislation I consider iniquitous so I'm not going to quote it.
 
What does the factory manufacture ?
 
Ruffy said:
I deal with the EA a fair bit, if this smoke had any nasty in it, the EA would be all over them like a rash !

You could always call 999 and say you see thick black smoke coming from a factory unit and then give its location, this done on a regular basis both day and night would get something done but please tell me the address as if its near my station you can forget it :)
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Are you, as a fireman, advocating someone makes bogus 999 calls?
 
I'm surprised at the EA because SEPA are very proactive, except when they are threatened.
 
Cheers all, yes the photo is a bit underexposed but it is not that far out when it comes to the colour of the smoke, yes there is plumes of a fairly dark yellow smoke and then changes back to Black. The furnace is fueled by oil as far as I am aware. Onomatopoeia, you say I am changing tact? I aint changing nothing but just pointing out that noise issues are another thing we have to put up with.As I have to get up around 03.30 for work every day, being woke up a couple of hours before on a regular basis is not what I can do with, so what you suggesting I call 999 each time? Alastair, I have been down the route of the LA EHO and it is dealt with a regional officer for the South West from the EA head office,our local MP has already dealt with it and that is about as far as it whent. For those who have managed to extract a funny side to all this then fear not, playschool will be open again Monday and you can go humour the rest of the kids ;) Here is a pic of when some of the Blue coloured smoke followed the darker stuff, given the fact the chimney is above the Tree line, this stuff has a tendancy to drop straight down across the area even if there is a wind. I could be wrong but this suggests to me that for it to drop that quickly it must be carrying fuel particals :shrug:

smoke_zps9de591e1.jpg
 
gman said:
I'm surprised at the EA because SEPA are very proactive, except when they are threatened.
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SEPA are a very different beast. Much more proactive, much more helpful to both business and the public. I managed the permits for five sites across the UK at one time, the two in Scotland were the easiest to deal with because SEPA were very good at telling you what was required and would help by assessing options we presented. The EA are universally hopeless - and I;ve now dealt with them on about three or four different industry sectors and it's the same across the board.

u8myufo said:
I could be wrong but this suggests to me that for it to drop that quickly it must be carrying fuel particals :shrug:
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When it drops like that it's usually one of a few thing:
  • Temperature inversion (which should only be infrequent)
  • Plume too cold (if this persists beyond start-up they're perhaps scavenging too much heat for the hotwell tanks)
  • Stack the wrong height (there should be modelling of this, the EA have a software tool that they can use)
When you say yellow and blue in the smoke I'm thinking that it sounds like a HFO or coal combustion process, there's a few of them about but it's been getting tougher to retain permits for those fuels.

You may get the media involved, but only if you can demonstrate to them there's a serious and immediate health risk to either children or an old folks home. You will need to know what's in the plume. This means getting a copy of the permit the factory is operating under, as already explained.

This is about as much advice as I can give without knowing which factory it is and what processes they are running. God luck with this.
 
Keep documenting, keep complaining in writing to SEPA and the company, your local councilors and MP. Persistence wins in our democracy.

Write to SEPA with a freedom of info request for information on past complaints and actions, ask for licenses if they are not already public ally posted. Neighbourhoods complaining are better than individuals.

The media gets bored pretty fast, our public institutions are slow but they are systematic and persistent.

You can bet that the folks at SEPA are just as concerned as you are but may have other priorities because someone else is shouting louder.
 
arclight said:
What does the factory manufacture ?
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Pollution!!
will69 said:
Keep documenting, keep complaining in writing to SEPA and the company, your local councilors and MP. Persistence wins in our democracy.

Write to SEPA with a freedom of info request for information on past complaints and actions, ask for licenses if they are not already public ally posted. Neighbourhoods complaining are better than individuals.

The media gets bored pretty fast, our public institutions are slow but they are systematic and persistent.

You can bet that the folks at SEPA are just as concerned as you are but may have other priorities because someone else is shouting louder.
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Cheers Neil, although I am a little baffled as to how the Scottish Agency would be concerned about this issue down here :thinking: Do SEPA take an interest in any issues irrespective of which part of the country?
 
Rich I think it was a fair enough question to ask what the plant produces. Pollution is a by product, but obviously they actually produce something...so what is it? The answer could enable someone so have an clue as to what the production by-products might be.
 
viv1969 said:
Rich I think it was a fair enough question to ask what the plant produces. Pollution is a by product, but obviously they actually produce something...so what is it? The answer could enable someone so have an clue as to what the production by-products might be.
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Indeed, Ruth, which is why I asked ............ #18.
 
viv1969 said:
Rich I think it was a fair enough question to ask what the plant produces. Pollution is a by product, but obviously they actually produce something...so what is it? The answer could enable someone so have an clue as to what the production by-products might be.
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The plume is from a steam-generating boiler, it is not a process-derived emission. I don't think Rich could be more specific on-thread without someone naming the company involved.
 
viv1969 said:
Rich I think it was a fair enough question to ask what the plant produces. Pollution is a by product, but obviously they actually produce something...so what is it? The answer could enable someone so have an clue as to what the production by-products might be.
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It might have been Ruth, but in all honesty I just wanted to keep the name out of the equation. No I know it is not exactly top secret either. I could quite easily plaster the name all over Farcebook with the video`s but I do not think it is the right thing to do. I have a couple of phone calls to make and few questions to ask, so will see what happens. Ideally I would just like the factory to wake up to the fact that they have a problem with the old equipment and sort it out.
 
u8myufo said:
Please move mods if you feel this should be in talk nature. I am just looking for a bit of advice. I do not want to say too much at this stage, but there has been an ongoing issue with heavy smoke pollution from a local factory over an area which is quite rich in wildlife as well as plant species. This has been going on for almost two years now. I have already been to the local paper a while back and fair play they did the best they could to raise the issue with the factory. However I am at the stage now where I would like to contact and send pictures to a national paper, with the hope that not only will they contact the company`s head office but also grill the environmental agency, as to date I am not happy with there attitude to the situation. So my question is can somebody suggest which tabloid to contact given the nature of the complaint?
Thanks
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Is there any risk to local resident's health? Is it just flora/fauna that you're concerned for or is the human population at risk?...
 
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