Entry Level DSLR

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DSLR_Dunc

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Hello All,

I am new here so if i seem unsure, please bear with me. Also if i have posted this in the wrong section feel free to move it.

I am currently considering buying a new DSLR camera as I realise the limitations of 'Point and Shoot' Cameras. I have been looking at both of the main players in this market (Nikon and Canon) and I have been looking closely at the Nikon D3300. I believe this is the type of camera for me with the specs i think are suitable as (I may be wrong) Canon entry level cameras do not quite meet up to these specs, however I'm not sure if there are any other cameras of this type in this price range that would suit me. So if anyone could give me any suggestions i will take them and have a look into them.

Thanks
 
I had a d3100 for 4 years and it was great so you will be fine with the d3300.

Have you held either the nikon or the Canon to see how they feel to you ?
 
What spec's do you think the Canon lacks?
Why would they be important to you?

As a rough rule of thumb, at the bottom of their ranges, the Nikon cameras appear to be better built, the Canon's have a better feature set. Although you'll get the better of both by buying a Sony or Pentax.

However, if you're planning on this being just the start of a major investment, you need to look at the whole system. For now the best advice is, have a play and see what feels best in the hand, and how easy it is to get to the features you want. For my money, I'd rather have a 2nd hand better camera, they're much nicer to use than the entry level models, many of which have commonly used functions hidden in menu's.
 
Very good advice above. My first dslr was a d90, and I recently plonked for a d610. The menu systems and features of the d610 are just an expansion and very similar to the d90, where I'm not learning a new camera from scratch again, and able to digest the new features while continuing to improve my photography skill unhindered.
 
Thanks for both of your prompt responses.
damianmkv said:
Have you held either the nikon or the Canon to see how they feel to you ?
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I have yet to hold one to see if i prefer how one feels to the other, I was first just finding the main competitors for what I'm looking for.

Phil V said:
What spec's do you think the Canon lacks?
Why would they be important to you?
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When I was going through the specs of the Canon (I think it was the 1200D) the general consensus from reviewers was that Canon was using old parts from other cameras which were a few years old and that the Nikon had more Megapixels, more autofocus points etc. That is what made me swing further towards the Nikon line.

However i will have to see how they feel in the hand and have a general look at their line (both Canon and Nikon etc)
 
The biggest difference between makes/models is the ergonomics, so do try and get a hands-on test. All entry-level DSLRs are geared towards someone who wants to move away from compact cameras but isn't comfortable with taking control of the camera. They're biased towards automatic modes (which are not really any different to using a point-and-shoot) and the modes which allow youto take control (PASM) can be a slight fiddle when there's only one control dial to change two parameters - requiring a press'n'turn or wandering into menus. You will almost always get a better camera for the same money buying a "pro-sumer" or "semi-pro" model that's a couple of years old.


Taking a couple of steps backwards.. why do you want a DSLR? There are other alternatives that represent an improvment over a basic commpact camera and they have different advantages and disadvantages compared to an entry-level DSLR. Worth considering are better grades of compact camera and mirror-less interchangeable lens cameras. But it all depends on understanding your needs and what's important to you. There's not alot to go on in your first post. You may have thought all this through already, but if you haven't and want to run through the exercise of telling us what you want to do/achieve with a new camera we'll be able to offer beter advice.

There are other brands available, it's not all Canon and Nikon. Don't get hung up on specification lists - they'll only distract you and make you focus on irrelevancies (more megapixels isn't always better, available ISO settings aren't as useful as knowing which ones produce a usable result under different circumstances, sharpness tests are never done in the real world where the only criteria is "sharp enough", etc.). What specifications are relevant aren't obvious until you know what it is you want to do.

Welcome to the forum..
 
Okey dokey, I now have a lot to think about and will do some more research.

Thanks to all of you for your detailed and prompt responses, once I have had a bit more of a look into all the aspects above i shall give you guys and update.

Thanks
 
My first dslr was a Sony a37. Lovely lovely camera and did everything I wanted it to, but then got swept up in the whole G.A.S. thing and before I knew it I had sold it all and bought a Nikon D7000. It has loads more focus points which on paper looks great... in reality though I use one and it's usually the middle one so bare that in mind when thinking more means better. The biggest part of the change for me was the second hand market which is massive for both Canon and Nikon. Another plus for going second hand is that you get more camera for your money. As Phil says, the next level up cameras (D7000 & canon 50/60D for example) offer more control to the user without having to go into menus and have twin scroll wheels. The top LCD panel makes for a nice info panel as it displays everything you need including aperture, shutter speed, iso, white balance, raw or jpeg, number of shots left, battery life etc.

Just my POV though. :)

Enjoy.
 
minnnt said:
My first dslr was a Sony a37. Lovely lovely camera and did everything I wanted it to, but then got swept up in the whole G.A.S. thing and before I knew it I had sold it all and bought a Nikon D7000. It has loads more focus points which on paper looks great... in reality though I use one and it's usually the middle one so bare that in mind when thinking more means better. The biggest part of the change for me was the second hand market which is massive for both Canon and Nikon. Another plus for going second hand is that you get more camera for your money. As Phil says, the next level up cameras (D7000 & canon 50/60D for example) offer more control to the user without having to go into menus and have twin scroll wheels. The top LCD panel makes for a nice info panel as it displays everything you need including aperture, shutter speed, iso, white balance, raw or jpeg, number of shots left, battery life etc.

Just my POV though. :)

Enjoy.
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Ok thanks, This does sound like a very attractive option, however one of the reasons why I was looking at the Nikon D3300 was due to the guide mode as I have never had any experience with the runnings of a DSLR so it would take some time to learn/get used to the whole new setup. Do any of the cameras you mentioned have this?

Thanks
 
DSLR_Dunc said:
Ok thanks, This does sound like a very attractive option, however one of the reasons why I was looking at the Nikon D3300 was due to the guide mode as I have never had any experience with the runnings of a DSLR so it would take some time to learn/get used to the whole new setup. Do any of the cameras you mentioned have this?
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I suspect guide mode is over-rated.. fundementally you only have a very few things to get your head around - aperture, shutter speed, ISO and focussing. As long as you're not expecting to be David Bailey within a week you should be ok with any body, with or without guide mode.
 
If I was looking to dip a toe into DSLRs for the first time, I would be looking at 2nd hand models for a start - they can generally be sold on at little loss should a fast upgrade (or change of plans) happen. If you have a good dealer near you with reasonable 2nd hand stocks, pop in and find out when the best time to go in for an extended chat and play would be then have a go with as many of their recommendations as possible. Older models may not have as many bells and whistles as the latest crop but they'll still ding and toot!
 
Hi and welcome,
I`m fairly new to dslr (Nov 2013) I have the Nikon D3200, this also has the "guide" and yes I have used it a few times but to be honest its ok but you would in my opinion not really use it much if at all.
I`m fairly confident on what to do now (i use Manual focus Lens) so no zooming/auto focus for me.
I think you should think about a better 2nd hand camera.
Happy hunting and have a great time learning.
 
boliston said:
The clue is in his name - dslr_dunc :D

Now if his name was mirrorless_mike and he was asking the same question then i'd be more likely to suggest going mirrorless
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Probably a better reason to specify a DSLR than any other.
 
Hi again,

I just thought that I would give you guys more to go on, so here goes:

If I were to purchase a DSLR I would like to have the following:

Viewfinder
Colour LCD Screen (Capable of acting as a viewfinder)
A number of autofocus points
A relatively good sensor
Relatively easy to use, a 'guide mode' would be nice but not 100% needed
Not too high a price (definately not over £400)
Overall a good camera for taking a range of photos (Ultimately landscape/nature as well as some urban)
A good starter lens as part of the deal
3 or above FPS Continuous Shooting

Any other suggestions, please do say.

I was also looking at compact cameras that have interchangeable lenses, are these any good, or for the money are you better to buy a DSLR.

Thanks again, you guys really know your stuff and are very willing to help a completely clueless newbie!
 
DSLR_Dunc said:
Hi again,

I just thought that I would give you guys more to go on, so here goes:

If I were to purchase a DSLR I would like to have the following:

Viewfinder
Colour LCD Screen (Capable of acting as a viewfinder)
A number of autofocus points
A relatively good sensor
Relatively easy to use, a 'guide mode' would be nice but not 100% needed
Not too high a price (definately not over £400)
Overall a good camera for taking a range of photos (Ultimately landscape/nature as well as some urban)
A good starter lens as part of the deal
3 or above FPS Continuous Shooting

Any other suggestions, please do say.

I was also looking at compact cameras that have interchangeable lenses, are these any good, or for the money are you better to buy a DSLR.

Thanks again, you guys really know your stuff and are very willing to help a completely clueless newbie!
Click to expand...

Just some quick thoughts on the above..

FPS isn't as critical for landscape/nature/urban as it is for sport/action. See my earlier comment about not knowing which specifications are important until you start using a DSLR. But be realistic about what you want to shoot and what performance is "good enough" (for example I shoot banger racing with a notoriously slow combination of body and macro lens but it works "good enough for me"). Could you expand on the type of shot you want to take? - if urban=urbex then low light performance is far more critical than FPS, but if urban=skateboarding/parkour then focussing speed is far more important.

The most significant DSLR advantages over mirrorless is the focussing speed which is critical for sports/action and sometypes of wildlife photography (birds in flight) but much less critical for landscape/urban.

You want to use the rear screen.. if the conventional viewfinder isn't critical why get a DSLR where the mirror and viewfinder only add bulk, weight and expense?

Your budget is tight. It will get you a starter camera with a basic lens, but you need to be realistic on the 5-year budget. If you never buy another lens your budget would get you a better qiuality fixed-lens compact than it would a basic DSLR-and-lens combination.

Having mentioned budget and also suggested you consider mirrorless, the mirrorless options I would have suggested as competitors to entry-level DSLRs (providing that fast focussing for action/sports wasn't an essential requirement) are all above your budget when you factor in lenses (bought new - refurbished they're close to budget, secondhand they should be within budget).
 
nikon d3300 + 18-55 lens has £40 cashback so seems good value - id be surprised if the equivalent 2014 compact system with 1.5x crop sensor was cheaper
 
boliston said:
nikon d3300 + 18-55 lens has £40 cashback so seems good value - id be surprised if the equivalent 2014 compact system with 1.5x crop sensor was cheaper
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X-M1 (APS-C X-trans sensor) with 16-50mm is about the same price*, the current Fuji promotions are ending today (this model isn't on a current promotion) and we're awaiting the next round of promotions. The X-M1 has been available in the past with a free second lens when purchased as a kit and I'd expect to see that sort of deal come back for this model.

At that price level you're also opening up premium compacts - the original Sony DSC-RX100, Canon G1X/S120/G16 to name just four that would knock the socks off any entry-level DSLR and kit lens if that was your entire budget and you never bought another lens. Which is why it's important to consider the 5-year likely budget rather than just the initial budget.

I wouldn't buy any entry-level DSLR new. There's a tremendous churn with people selling them within the first six months. The Nikon product cycle at this level is about 8 months between new models. The Canon entry-level product cycle is only marginly longer. These models aren't being aimed at smart shoppers, for the most part they're marketed as expensive impulse buys. A two year old prosumer DSLR is a far better buy - better value for a higher specification.


*the X-A1 with the same lens is a bit cheaper if you prefer the more conventional Bayer pattern sensor and is also due promotional offer in the next sales cycle.
 
So looking at my needs and wants what sort of DSLR would suit me (Secondhand or new it doesn't matter), just not over £400/500?
 
DSLR_Dunc said:
Overall a good camera for taking a range of photos (Ultimately landscape/nature as well as some urban)
Click to expand...


Care to expand on the needs a little? In particular, what you mean by "nature" and "urban". And whether realistically you'll be buying more lenses in the future or if this needs to be a once-shot solution withn your budget - which has just increased by £100.. that always happens.. ;)
 
Its a very difficult question, but canon rule :canon:(y)

no seriously its a damned hard question and one, no one can answer for you. Its like picking your first car. Just pull out some names out of a hat :)

The lenses are the things you need to think about, long-term and accessories.

I like my canon EOS because my lenses all interchange between my 600d and 6d. (I went for a 6d because its the same model-line as a 600d) - sort of like picking a Ford Focus and then getting a Ford Focus RS - similar and comfortable.

If you have any mates who have different DSLR's, spend an hour with each of them and have a play with their camera (if they dont mind - just dont drop it lol). Both will try and sell you their respective models, because you get a bit of brand loyalty, especially when the camera doesn't let you down and you know its reliable. I'd just go for the black one. (y)
 
Personally I'd ignore the guide mode on the Nikon D3xxx series. Everyone I know who bought one took one look at the guide mode, decided it was too complicated/rubbish and promptly switched the camera into Auto ...

Don't get hung up on megapixels, all modern DSLRs have enough :)

As everyone says, get into a shop and handle them, one will feel better than the rest and that is the one to buy. They are all hugely capable and the only limiting factor will be you - and once you know you are no longer the limiting factor, you will know what to camera body to get :)

Buying a higher spec used body makes more sense too, as you will have more headroom to grow into.
 
Carlh said:
....
I like my canon EOS because my lenses all interchange between my 600d and 6d. (I went for a 6d because its the same model-line as a 600d) - sort of like picking a Ford Focus and then getting a Ford Focus RS - similar and comfortable....
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Presumably what you are saying is that you only purchased lenses from canon's "full frame" range rather than lenses specifically designed for entry level crop sensor bodies. I'd imagine a lot people buying a 600d would buy the cheaper crop frame lenses rather than "plan ahead" and only get full frame lenses, as I'd imagine they are usually more expensive than their crop equivalents.
 
I've just bought a second hand 650d as my first SLR. I haven't owned any sort of camera in years, just haven't got round to it, and have just graudated, so wanted to pick myself up a present!

I went the route I have because:
- I have several friends with canon SLR's. This way they can help me with advice and lens borrowing is possible!
- I would like to play with video, Canon have a better reputation for this.
- I want a battery grip (biggish hands, long trips outdoors, increased life appeals) and none of the lower end nikons support this.
- Budget. I could have gone more prosumer, but then I would have been forced to buy older (which I didn't want) I could have gone more beginner (1200d level) but equally, I wanted more flexibility.
- I played with lots of cameras, the Canon layout suited me.
- I like the touchscreen.
- I prefer the ON-OFF switch location

Just a few reasons that may help with your decision making!
 
Okey dokey. I have a few more pointers to guide me in a direction, thanks guys.
I will surely update you on my progress throughout the scary journey through DSLR purchase (all the names with one more number than the other, ahh!)
And Alistair, I look forward to your so called 'clever' comments to me, I may not know precisely what my budget is or precisely what type of photograph i will be shooting, but oh well, I will get what camera I feel comfortable with eventually!

Thanks Again
 
boliston said:
Presumably what you are saying is that you only purchased lenses from canon's "full frame" range rather than lenses specifically designed for entry level crop sensor bodies. I'd imagine a lot people buying a 600d would buy the cheaper crop frame lenses rather than "plan ahead" and only get full frame lenses, as I'd imagine they are usually more expensive than their crop equivalents.
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I've got a mix of lenses, all work on the crop sensor and full frame - not once did I think or search for a "full frame" lens - Im not sure if there that, they're EOS compatible and thats all I wanted to know.

my 50mm f1.8 works dandy on both, initially bought for the 600d.
my Tokina 11-16mm F2.8 works great on the 600d, but I have to open up the focal length to the 16mm on the 6d otherwise I get vignetting, but it works fine. Thats one wide lens regardless of which model I slap it on.
my tamrom 70-300 was bought at the same time i bought the 600d, its terrible. Not very sharp but a good introduction for telephoto, for the price. Its gathering dust now so if anyone wants it for £50, I'd be happy to sell.
I bought a 70-200 USM L 2 for the 600d and works great, but looks much better on the 6d due to the full frame and not being cropped.
A 24-105 L works great on both camera's but looks better on the 6d, only because of not having that crop factor.

I didnt think of going to full frame, only when I thought "I'll have a go at selling images professionally", did I think I needed full frame, but more importantly 2 camera's, one as a backup. Otherwise I'd have stuck with the 600d. I wouldn't have a need for 2 camera's.

If you don't plan on going pro, I see no need to go full frame at all, to be honest, unless you have cash burning a hole in your pockets in which case, I'd rather have better lenses (to replace other lenses).

There's the crop factor and some buffering, better ISO and longer bursts of shots, I see no other major differences between that and full frame so no need to waste money when its not needed to be wasted. I had GAS but I've got over that now, only getting what I <need>, for my business. I may invest in a better led macro light than the cheapo ebay one I have, purely so I can take better photo's for pleasure on the macro side, but if a decent led ring is going to cost me as much as a dedicated macro lens, I'd rather than lens.

The higher ISO is useful for my shots at Boxing, Wrestling, Dancing and music gigs. The 6d is great at focussing in darker places than the 600d, and the 600d does get noisy after 800 but even that, at music gigs etc.. just adds "atmosphere" and the "film" look to images. Its the focussing in darker rooms I like on the 6d, more than anything else.

I have shot weddings using both camera's, school sports day's with both cameras (save me swapping lenses over all the time and missing out on a special moment). I guess everyone will have their own reasons for going full frame, I certainly wouldn't just go for it, based on people saying "its better". Its too much money just to do that.
 
do you want to carry around a DSLR? is that going to hamper your photography when you cannot be bothered to carry it with you?

I was reading a review on the Sony A5000 CSC a couple of weeks ago and they summed up 'makes more sense than a budget DSLR' which I think says alot of people wanting to move on from a P&S would do better by going mirrorless or premium compact, the extra carry around needs of a DSLR from a P&S. you go mirrorless you are not compromising on quality/features of a DSLR(sometimes you are getting more features) but you are keeping the bulk down..

do go Currys/PCW for a handle of the brands, also have a look at the yellow sticker clearance prices, lots of bargains being picked up lately..

if you do absolutely have to have a DSLR consider an older 2nd hand body, you haven't mention which P&S you have but 9/10 I would say a 5+ year old DSLR will blow you away compared to what you have been used to, then spend the savings on lenses.

but again, go and fondle the brands.
 
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I think im gonna get a Nikon D50. It is quite cheap (£50/60 on eBay) and then I can really decide if I want a better camera. If I dont like it for whatever reason I can sell it on. Have there been any problems with this camera, I know it only has around 6 mega pixels
 
DSLR_Dunc said:
I think im gonna get a Nikon D50. It is quite cheap (£50/60 on eBay) and then I can really decide if I want a better camera. If I dont like it for whatever reason I can sell it on. Have there been any problems with this camera, I know it only has around 6 mega pixels
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one of my fave cameras of all time, I still had one up until a few weeks ago.. you will get one from MPB at that price which will include a 6 months warranty.

you realize they are big and clunky don't you? I love them but very dated now, for £85 quid you can get a D3000, no in body focus motor but probably a smarter purchase.
 
It's great price to pay. Because your first DSLR isn't that important, its either:
Not going to get much use, it'll end up at the back of a cupboard unloved.
Or, you'll get the bug, sleep with it for a few months, then realise what it's lacking and upgrade it.

Either way, it's far from the big decision most people think it is.
 
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