Entry level dslr advice.

Boisseliere

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Lorna
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Hi there. I am new to this so please excuse my lack of knowledge. I want to start capturing images of horses. I need an entry level 'good' camera with a good number of shots per second (continuous shooting?) and a good enough buffer to accumulate lots of these in order to capture the fleeting moment of them over a jump etc. have looked at spec for loads, but this felt like an ask the experts question as I don't have a huge budget and no experience.

Thanks so much in advance.
 
Hi Lorna
Can you give us your budget for camera and lens? It is impossible to advise you what to buy without knowing this.
 
Hi. That's a tricky question. I'm hoping to get an idea of a good model and buy second hand. I think new price of £350 would be about right. Have found some non dslr cameras for about £150. As this and optical zoom are about my only spec requirements perhaps better going this direction. Very confused.
 
For anything worth buying your looking at £350 for second probably be able to pick up a 550 with kit lens then buy your self a 55-250 IS for about £90
 
Hi. That's a tricky question. I'm hoping to get an idea of a good model and buy second hand. I think new price of £350 would be about right. Have found some non dslr cameras for about £150. As this and optical zoom are about my only spec requirements perhaps better going this direction. Very confused.

The questions I'd ask are....

What kind of output do you want from the pictures ? just PC resolution or prints and if so how large?

What kind of enviroment are you shooting horses? is the light good? how far are they away? are they moving?

If you can answer those it would give us a better idea in terms of what specs would suit you.
 
[Deleted]

Any way to actually delete this post? Can't see a button for it...
 
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If all you are concerned with is a fast frame rate, slr may be the wrong place to be looking.

My Nikon D3200 DSLR has a max continiouse frame rate of 4 frames a second.
That's max frame rate. If the shutter speed is too low, it wont manage that, nor will it sustain it, buffer will allow perhaps 20seconds of continiouse shooting till buffering under-run sees it 'stall', at least at max image res.
My O/H's L310 Point & press bridge...... I dont know what the quoted frame rate is, but put it on C and tried it, and I got about a dozen frames in the time my camera took to get three! Not having the mirror mechanism to shift, having a lower resolution, having a lot less processing in the camera, or the processing more optimised for fixed programs, it works faster.

Her L310? £120. less than a 1/3 the price of my £400ish D3200. Takes photo's of near the same resolution, and out the box, has more zoom reach to its lens, than my kit 18-55, and unless you want to get very serious... which talking 'entry' SLR's is mutable......and get the know-how to exploit the extra manual control and versatility of a change-lens SLR... suggestion may be taking you down a perverse avenue, likely to NOT actually get you 'better' pictures, simply by giving you less 'out the box' capability for the sake of more manual control..... that might help an expert get a 'better' pic, but as like to give the novice more chance to cock one up!

Common problems going up to 'better' cameras in expectation they will give you 'better' pictures.

Long lenses. Fills the frame better with a distant subject. Your typical 3x zoom compact gives you a snap, with your horse a hundred yards away, filling barely 1/5 the middle of the frame, and a lot of unwanted field around it. Use digital zoom, or crop in on the original image in photo-editor.... that little bit of interest doesn't enlarge well, or show the detail you hope for in riders expression, and looses clarity.... but it IS there, and it is fairly sharp.

The small zoom, meant that you did get the subject in frame. may not have been perfectly centred, but it was in frame and you didn;t cut off the riders hat or horses tail or anything.

Big area of view, meant the camera got a lot of light to expose the frame, might have used a wide auto-apature, but at mild focal lengths probably focasing near infinity anyway, this didn't make focusing too critical, and allowed a high shutter speed that froze action.

Zoom in, movement in the frame is magnified. Any camera shake is going to cause blur, so you need to use a higher shutter speed; old rule of thumb was closest shutter speed to focal length.... so on a 35mm slr, with a wide angle 35mm lens, 1/30th of a second; standard 50mm, 1/60th second, 210mm telephoto.... 1/250th. t6hat's three 'stops' faster shutter on the telephoto, so you need three stops more appature, if you have them... and if you do, that will shorten your depth of field, or focus tolerence, so increase your liklihood of getting a blurry shot, which using auto-focus camera is likely to be less accurate given a distant and moving subject anyway..... or means upping your ISO setting, which will increase noise and reduce image crispness.

Ie: the 'better' camera, even if you know what its doing for you, is shortening your chances of getting the 'better' picture you hope for.... and if you only half know how to use it, and use it badly, shortening it further still.

So whats the purpose of the picture? You want 'nice' family album pictures, then going DSLR at the entry level, and facing the learning curve of getting to grips with how to use it and use it well, you are likely to loose an awful lot of pics that you actually want, in the learning curve, from the shortened odds of the more 'demanding' equipment.

So, I'd start with Moreorless's list of queries, about where you are starting. I have mentioned some technical terms in there, shutter speed, aparture, ISO setting, lens length. Depth of Focus, camera shake, blurr.... are you familiar with any of these? do you know what they are? What they do? Whats your 'level' of photography? What sort of pjotography are you doing already? Are you a point & press happy snapper (no shame in that! BTW) or are you an F-Stop anorak, to whom the bakan quality of apature blades is important?

Why do you want to take these pictures? Who for? How are they going to be viewed? And how 'good' technically do they have to be? Whats more important? The crispness of the image, or capturing 'the moment'?

What aspirations might you have to get more into photography? And how much is it really worth?

We dont have SO much to go on, but if as I suspect; you basically arent a keen photographer already, and you just want to get closer to your subject and get the crucial moment in a pic, that's probably NOT going to go into a magazine or anything, and at best be veiwed on a computer screen or digital photo-frame, by the family.... THEN a more non enthusiast, point & press compact or bridge camera, is possibly more likely to do what you actually hope, and give, more often, the pictures you want to capture, more reliably, and with less effort, and do it more cheaply, than an entry DSLR.

OH's bridge, I know would be good for probably 90% of the family shots I am every likely to take.

Very easy to be 'over-sold' a camera, and lead to believe you need more than you do, and that better camera = better pictures. It doesn't. Better pictures come from looking through the view finder and finding the interest. No camera does that for you.... any camera that lets you grab that interest when you see it, is a good camera...

A higher end compact, or bridge, therfore MAY be the more appropriate tool for the job you want to do, not an entry SLR.
 
Very easy to be 'over-sold' a camera, and lead to believe you need more than you do, and that better camera = better pictures. It doesn't. Better pictures come from looking through the view finder and finding the interest. No camera does that for you.... any camera that lets you grab that interest when you see it, is a good camera...

A higher end compact, or bridge, therfore MAY be the more appropriate tool for the job you want to do, not an entry SLR.

In this case though it does sound like an SLR maybe the best option, nothing else is going to provide the same autofocus performance when it comes to tracking moving targets.

Again without knowing the lighting and the output is hard to make a informed recommendation but to me the best option seems like it might not be an entry level DSLR but a used older more serious model that will provide better frames per second and autofocus.

I'v seen Nikon D300's for just over £350 for example, pretty well used ones admitidly but that gives you 6 frames per second(8 fps with a grip)a pro level autofocus system to make subject tracking easier, a nicer viewfinder and sealed/metal model with lots of controls which are going to be useful for fast action.
 
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I'd add that you need to work out whether a lens is part of your budget or not, a telephoto zoom need not be THAT expensive if the lighting and output of the files arent that testing but it is still likely to set you back £100 or more for a decent one.
 
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I have the d3100 its a great camera!! I bought it from Amazon for £280 with the lens etc i think its the perfect camera for an entry level
 
AS others have hinted, you might be better off with a faster bridge camera to start with. Because your requirements don't really fit in with 'entry level dslr'.

If I was to recommend a camera and lens combination for your requirements it's be the Canon 7d and a 70-200 2.8L. The fps and focus tracking, even in dim light would be awesome, but it's far from entry level.
 
AS others have hinted, you might be better off with a faster bridge camera to start with. Because your requirements don't really fit in with 'entry level dslr'.

The closest to me would seem to be the Pentax K-30, the autofocus would still be entry level(center point would I'd guess still outperform any mirrorless) but it does offer 6 frames a second, weather sealed body aswell which I'd guess might suit the original posters needs.

Its a bit more than the OP stated they wanted to pay but cameras in this case come up used pretty quickly, I'v seen a handful for around £370-80.

If I was to recommend a camera and lens combination for your requirements it's be the Canon 7d and a 70-200 2.8L. The fps and focus tracking, even in dim light would be awesome, but it's far from entry level.

The other option to me seems to be to buy an older used higher end body, D300, D2, 1D mk 2 etc.
 
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The Sony nex range might a good camera to get - its a compact rather than an SLR, but the nex 3 takes 6-7 frames per second.

Its just in budget too!
 
Wow. Loads of information to digest. Need to read through all properly and compare to specs. While in doing that just to say an enormous thank you to all who have responded. My initial instinct that I needed some advice was correct! So many aspects I hadn't even thought you. I appreciate the time you have all taken.
 
I do a fair bit of equestrian work, and almost always shoot single frame, not drive. Horse photography tends to be about timing the shot right, which takes quite a bit of practice, but it can be learned with virtually any dSLR and kit lens. £350 will get you a decent Canon 20D (5 fps on a good day) with kit lens, card, battery and so forth (don't forget to budget your so forths). A bridge may well do what you want initially, but you won't be able to fit it with a better lens (I normally shoot horses with a 70-200L - not the cheapest thing around) when you need to move up to the next grade.
 
Yes some great advice given, answers a lot of questions I was pondering too!!
 
I started out with a Canon 500D which can with the kit 18-55 and 55-250 lenses. Both have IS. It cost me a lot more than your budget but did the job very well. I took photos of landscapes, buildings, people, Motorsport, and horses (at the local rodeo). The IS on the 55-250 with continues shooting managed some really good shots that some other people didn't get as they were trying to find the 'best settings'.

My point being, there are now loads of 500D and even 550D 2nd hand out there that will come with both lenses. Hunt and you won't be disappointed. Only problem is when you see how good your photos are (and they will be good) you'll then want to start perfecting then, and that's where the obsession kicks in!

Also where abouts are you? Could be worth trying to test one out?
 
In this case though it does sound like an SLR maybe the best option, nothing else is going to provide the same autofocus performance when it comes to tracking moving targets.

I am still getting to grips with AF... and dealing with fast moving subjects, and little red dots flashing around the view-finder as the sensor tries to pick a target to fix on.... have given up on it and turned the bludy thing OFF.

Managed to get fast moving rally-cars, motorbikes, skiers, and other 'action' subjects in crisp focus, even with wide apertures and slow shutters; with manual-focus film cameras for thirty years..... this is not a feature I would deem to be THAT critical!

I wont argue with you, that a better SLR, with a good fast focusing lens, will track-focus more accurately than a cheap bridge or compact....

But. you're supporting my argument of over-selling. For some-one looking at entry level cameras?!

You're suggesting a feature of a modern camera, the auto-focus, and implying not only is it essential to have it..... its not!... but pushing the goal-posts even further up into the realms of 'Pro' equipment, to get it!

Want to screw a wardrobe together? You use a screw-driver. Pro's may use a fancy Dewalt cordless electric torque sensing one..... don't mean that Mrs Jones needs one to put together the flat-pack from Ikea! Yes, a Snap-On multi-bit ratchet screw-driver may be a wonderful tool... but for one wardrobe, the cheap cross-head from the pound-shop is more than adequete! AND more likely to get the job done, more easily, and faster with less risk of desaster!

The tool should be 'appropriate' for the job.

I do a fair bit of equestrian work, and almost always shoot single frame, not drive. Horse photography tends to be about timing the shot right, which takes quite a bit of practice, but it can be learned

A suggestion backing up, to whether a fast frame rate is actually even a necessary or even essential feature in a camera for this job!
 
...and while we're here, don't worry too much about IS. Horses, moving ones, need a shutter speed of at least 1/600th. That applies to jumpers or showers; you're looking to freeze the hooves and slower than that won't do it. I always try for at least 1/1000th. At those speeds IS won't give you any advantage and can make lenses hugely more expensive. Of course in poor light, to get that sort of speed you're likely to need high ISO, so if budget considerations mean you can't get both IS and good high ISO, go for good ISO (Which, incidentally, is not a strong point on the otherwise outstanding 20D). Modern noise reduction is pretty damned good now, so you can improve noise quite acceptably in post production.

Confusing, isn't it? But don't despair - we've all been down this twisty path. :)
 
I am still getting to grips with AF... and dealing with fast moving subjects, and little red dots flashing around the view-finder as the sensor tries to pick a target to fix on.... have given up on it and turned the bludy thing OFF.

Managed to get fast moving rally-cars, motorbikes, skiers, and other 'action' subjects in crisp focus, even with wide apertures and slow shutters; with manual-focus film cameras for thirty years..... this is not a feature I would deem to be THAT critical!

I wont argue with you, that a better SLR, with a good fast focusing lens, will track-focus more accurately than a cheap bridge or compact....

But. you're supporting my argument of over-selling. For some-one looking at entry level cameras?!

You're suggesting a feature of a modern camera, the auto-focus, and implying not only is it essential to have it..... its not!... but pushing the goal-posts even further up into the realms of 'Pro' equipment, to get it!

Want to screw a wardrobe together? You use a screw-driver. Pro's may use a fancy Dewalt cordless electric torque sensing one..... don't mean that Mrs Jones needs one to put together the flat-pack from Ikea! Yes, a Snap-On multi-bit ratchet screw-driver may be a wonderful tool... but for one wardrobe, the cheap cross-head from the pound-shop is more than adequete! AND more likely to get the job done, more easily, and faster with less risk of desaster!

The tool should be 'appropriate' for the job.

A suggestion backing up, to whether a fast frame rate is actually even a necessary or even essential feature in a camera for this job!

I'm sorry mike I disagree with this. I also manually focussed for years(way beyond the advent of good AF cameras).
But that's the point, MF cameras are designed for manual focus and AF cameras are designed to auto focus. A small dark viewfinder with a variable zoom lens and no split prism or other focussing aid isn't a comparison to a 35mm slr designed for MF.

Your experience with AF sounds more like user error than a limitation of the system. (AF point jumping about? You tell it which point to use)

In the old days I would get a sharp shot of a rally car on a corner with about a 70% keeper rate. But I only got 1 shot per car. Now I can track the car round the corner and get several sharp shots of every car.

But I've taken as much time and effort learning how to control the AF as I did the manual focus.
 
I'm sorry mike I disagree with this. I also manually focussed for years(way beyond the advent of good AF cameras).
But that's the point, MF cameras are designed for manual focus and AF cameras are designed to auto focus. A small dark viewfinder with a variable zoom lens and no split prism or other focussing aid isn't a comparison to a 35mm slr designed for MF.

Your experience with AF sounds more like user error than a limitation of the system. (AF point jumping about? You tell it which point to use)

In the old days I would get a sharp shot of a rally car on a corner with about a 70% keeper rate. But I only got 1 shot per car. Now I can track the car round the corner and get several sharp shots of every car.

But I've taken as much time and effort learning how to control the AF as I did the manual focus.

I agree with you, but the subject was probably easily skewed; point was that were looking at infantesamile small differences in machine performance, suggesting this is better than that, and shifting the criteria constantly up the scale, so that something that you dont even need, suddenly isn't good enough, and suddenly whats neded is FAR above the level that's apropriate.

And I agree with comment about user error on my AF... I have not used an AF SLR until this year. I skipped AF film cameras completely, so I am on a learning curve.... openly admit that... but I'm a damn site further up the SLR learning curve that the OP probably is....... and it was more expedient for me to simply switch the bludy AF 'off' when it started target hunting on me, than to spend twenty minutes with the user manual, and searching through the program menus to work out which setting was most apropriate, then try and work out how to use it..... was snapping my daughters skating test...... ten minutes long in a 30 minute session, would have missed the entire show by the time I'd got the camera doing what I wanted.

That is the real-world sort of scenario here, and going for an even more up-spec pro-orientated camera, for a milisecond less to focus time? NOT really a big deal in comparison; its not going to get you many 'better' shots, not having it is not likely to loose you many good shots, but having a camera doing stuff you just don't understand, and demanding from you stuff you just haven't got a clue about almost certainly will.

I at least had some idea what the camera was doing, and how I could stop it; I chose what was most expedient to me. How many people, who have merely bought an entry level SLR told that they 'need' all of its functions, get completely flumoxed in such situtions and DONT know how to solve the 'problem' or that it even can be! End up going home with a load of blury shots if any at all, and blaming the camera!
 
I agree with you, but the subject was probably easily skewed; point was that were looking at infantesamile small differences in machine performance, suggesting this is better than that, and shifting the criteria constantly up the scale, so that something that you dont even need, suddenly isn't good enough, and suddenly whats neded is FAR above the level that's apropriate.

And I agree with comment about user error on my AF... I have not used an AF SLR until this year. I skipped AF film cameras completely, so I am on a learning curve.... openly admit that... but I'm a damn site further up the SLR learning curve that the OP probably is....... and it was more expedient for me to simply switch the bludy AF 'off' when it started target hunting on me, than to spend twenty minutes with the user manual, and searching through the program menus to work out which setting was most apropriate, then try and work out how to use it..... was snapping my daughters skating test...... ten minutes long in a 30 minute session, would have missed the entire show by the time I'd got the camera doing what I wanted.

That is the real-world sort of scenario here, and going for an even more up-spec pro-orientated camera, for a milisecond less to focus time? NOT really a big deal in comparison; its not going to get you many 'better' shots, not having it is not likely to loose you many good shots, but having a camera doing stuff you just don't understand, and demanding from you stuff you just haven't got a clue about almost certainly will.

I at least had some idea what the camera was doing, and how I could stop it; I chose what was most expedient to me. How many people, who have merely bought an entry level SLR told that they 'need' all of its functions, get completely flumoxed in such situtions and DONT know how to solve the 'problem' or that it even can be! End up going home with a load of blury shots if any at all, and blaming the camera!

I see where you're coming from with the AF, but to you switching it off puts you in your comfort zone. For the OP it'd just be switching one unknown technology for another.

I probably started it with the higher spec SLR's simply because what the OP wants to do will be a challenge for lower spec'ed kit. He might have titled the post 'entry level dslr', but then he went on to say how fast fps and a large buffer were most important to him.

I'm not guilty of pushing him towards higher end kit than he's asked about. I answered exactly the specifications he wants.

On a budget I'd go with a 20d and a 70-200 f4L (both s/h), but I can see how many would say that's hardly a budget proposal. However they'll outperform an entry level dslr and kit zoom in all the ways that are important to the OP.
 
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