Enlarger negative carrier. Why opening is smaller than the film format?

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gunnar

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I am messing around with meopta 6 enlarger that I recently picked up.

The strange thing I found is, the openings in the negative carrier are considerably smaller than the film format

for 35mm: the top opening is fine (36x24) but the bottom one is 34x22
for 6x6: top is again fine (60x60) bu the bottom is 53x53

Why is that? Surely it will crop the image (e.g. 6x6 is around 57x57)? unless I am missing something fundamental
DSC_0007.JPG
 
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I presume the point is to crop out the rebate and ensure a 'clean' image is projected onto the base board. And yes, you will lose a couple of mm around the edge of the negative. As most cameras show less than the captured image in the viewfinder, maybe you could think of this as taking you back to what you framed in-camera?

Use glass carriers if you want to print 100% of the negative.
 
@FujiLove thanks, that the only plausible explanation I could come up with as well. But surely 4mm for 6x6 is a bit harsh? I don't think my Rolleiflex T viewfinder crops anything at all let alone 4mm
 
That's a new one on me.
I've only owned LPL enlargers which come with adjustable blades on the film holder. No cropping there.
 
There are adjustable blades, but the max opening is still too small. See picture on the left.

35mm inserts are different as well - the top one has a smaller opening
 
FujiLove said:
I presume the point is to crop out the rebate and ensure a 'clean' image is projected onto the base board. And yes, you will lose a couple of mm around the edge of the negative. As most cameras show less than the captured image in the viewfinder, maybe you could think of this as taking you back to what you framed in-camera?

Use glass carriers if you want to print 100% of the negative.
Click to expand...
But beware of Newton rings (is that what they are called, ages since I printed anything).
 
MatBin said:
But beware of Newton rings (is that what they are called, ages since I printed anything).
Click to expand...

You could get anti-newton ring glass inserts to use in the top, certainly for the Durst englargers
 
But if opening is too small, inserts are not going to make any difference, glass or not
 
gunnar said:
I am messing around with meopta 6 enlarger that I recently picked up.

The strange thing I found is, the openings in the negative carrier are considerably smaller than the film format

for 35mm: the top opening is fine (36x24) but the bottom one is 34x22
for 6x6: top is again fine (60x60) bu the bottom is 53x53

Why is that? Surely it will crop the image (e.g. 6x6 is around 57x57)? unless I am missing something fundamental
Click to expand...

Are different size plates not available for that model?

Just measured my Durst M605 ones for 645 (don't have 6x6):

Neg: 56x41mm
Sixma insert: 55x39mm
Sivoma insert: 57x42mm
 
gunnar said:
But if opening is too small, inserts are not going to make any difference, glass or not
Click to expand...

Sorry, I didn't look too closely at your carrier and that is strange they've made the lower one that small. On the Durst both openings are the same (larger) size so you can put glass in both.
 
gunnar said:
Would you be able to take picture of it open (like mine above) and post here? Just curious if mine is a different revision
Click to expand...

It would be handy to see your "35mm" carrier
I'm kinda thinking the carrier you have pictured accepts both plate masks for various formats, and/or glass.
It may not necessarily be for 6x6, the aperture is big enough for formats smaller than 6x6, of which there are loads.
 
joxby said:
It would be handy to see your "35mm" carrier
I'm kinda thinking the carrier you have pictured accepts both plate masks for various formats, and/or glass.
It may not necessarily be for 6x6, the aperture is big enough for formats smaller than 6x6, of which there are loads.
Click to expand...

I've just looked at the photo above, and you're absolutely right. The carrier looks just like the one in my Durst into which you slot different masks.

@gunnar you should be able to get inserts for the carrier for 35mm etc. and probably anti-newton glass that slots in.
 
@joxby @FujiLove

it's definitely "suitable" for 6x6 I've got instruction manual and it show this same carrier with top opening larger than the bottom.
Those sliding knobs are the stop-guides you move to select 135 vs 120 film

there indeed inserts for 35mm (which I own) and for 6x6 (on order) and both are different sizes. this cannot be a coincidence

Here is a picture of 6x6 insert, one has a wider rim than the other.
s-l1600 (1).jpg
 
Here is mine with 35mm inserts, the one on the left is smaller than the film frame.
They are not even interchangeable, overall sizes are different and the smaller one will not fit into the slot for the bigger
DSC_0001.JPG
 
Hmm, well the too small aperture of the left mask is a poser.
Quite apart from that, nothing really looks right, non of it looks like it has natural functionality, but I can't figure out how it is used.
The recessed nature of the masks for instance, unless we are dealing with cut film which would be odd right off the bat, wouldn't the masks crush/fold/indent the film where the mask edges meet.
Are the masks supposed to recess in to each other
Which side receives the light, small aperture or large
 
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ah, no, I put the left one in the wrong way around.
They are both supposed to be raised to grip the negative
The larger one receives the light
DSC_0002.JPG
 
Well I'm struggling to explain it tbh, other than "that's just the way they roll".
I'm with you though, I mean, back in the day cropping was expected, maybe not 35mm so much but 120 was seen to be useful because it provided a generous allowance for poor framing.
Personally, I frame to the edge and am irritated when I shoot accidentally on the squiff making it necessary to rotate the frame and thus necessitating a crop...very annoying, but that wasn't the approach in years gone by.
For the record, my Mamiya 6 shoots 56x56 image area, my 6x6 neg carrier is a hinged thing like yours with top and bottom apertures, the top is 56x56, the bottom is 55x55.
I can see the point of a larger top aperture, it tapers the light in to the bottom aperture, there can be no shadow cast on the edges of the frame, no vignetting, but a bottom hole of 53x53 would make my bum itch.
And the 35mm one is compounded by the fact that you don't have much film to start with, lopping 2mm a side of that is proper tight, so I dunno.
 
I've figured out a fix.
Dump the bottom mask and replace with glass.

*applause*


I thank you..:D


don't mention the extra dust
 
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