English - our language under attack

Phil V said:
How often do you hear it said / see it written.

It’s been replaced in common usage by impact, which has subsequently had its dictionary meaning amended to suit.
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On a daily basis, especially in work terms.
 
Nod said:
I use affect rather than impact - unless I'm talking about something hitting something else.

Like it or loathe it, language evolves; just look at Samuel Johnson's dictionary (and earlier ones) to see just how much spellings and meanings have changed.
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Difficult one

Affect is the means as in I intervened to Affect the situation and the Effect (impact) of that intervention was.....

To me Impact is not Affect?
 
Ricardodaforce said:
How’s that then? Surely grammar is different in foreign languages.
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Not that different, at least not with Europen languages. The all have first, second and third person, singluar and plural when conjugating verbs. English is unusual for not have a difference between the formal and informal "you" (tu / vous in french, du / sie in german, tu / Lei (or voi) in Italian etc) as we abandoned it about 400 years ago ("thee" was you when used in an informal setting, e.g. between friends), Tenses are similar, if not always identical - English doesn't have a past historic like French and Italian, Italian doesn't have a simple past so there are rules to learn about which of its three root past tenses you use in which situation, and so on.

I learned what a reflexive verb is from studying Italian. We have them in english, but they were something I used without being aware. e.g. to tell someone my name

mi chiamo Mark ( I call myself Mark)

Having a good understanding of English grammar does give a head start, I've learned a more about English as a result of studying Italian than I did at school.
 
onomatopoeia said:
Not that different, at least not with Europen languages. The all have first, second and third person, singluar and plural when conjugating verbs. English is unusual for not have a difference between the formal and informal "you" (tu / vous in french, du / sie in german, tu / Lei (or voi) in Italian etc) as we abandoned it about 400 years ago ("thee" was you when used in an informal setting, e.g. between friends), Tenses are similar, if not always identical - English doesn't have a past historic like French and Italian, Italian doesn't have a simple past so there are rules to learn about which of its three root past tenses you use in which situation, and so on.

I learned what a reflexive verb is from studying Italian. We have them in english, but they were something I used without being aware. e.g. to tell someone my name

mi chiamo Mark ( I call myself Mark)

Having a good understanding of English grammar does give a head start, I've learned a more about English as a result of studying Italian than I did at school.
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Thanks. I know. I speak Spanish.
 
andy700 said:
As you are no doubt aware, "would've" is a contraction of would have and not "would of". Perhaps, in the "old" days our qualifications - "O" Levels and CSE's, particularly in English and Maths were worth a bit more than their modern day equivalents? We used to write essays of two hundred to four hundred words, about all kinds of subjects, and thinking about it, we had to do the same in History and Geography. We had to provide answers in exams, not select from multiple choices.
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Yes, it's a contraction of "would have". That's because "would of" isn't an actual term, just a mispronunciation of "would have".
 
neil_g said:
Exactly what I was going to say.

"'ve" sounds a lot like "of". People just in a (bad) habit of writing like it sounds irrespective of the different usage.
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I blame the use of phonics. I saw a brilliant example the other day. Probably fake, but it was about a class of primary school kids being asked to identify an animal in a picture. The class all called out "An elephant" except one kid who called out "A frickin' elephant" . Obviously it was an African elephant.
 
DG Phototraining said:
I suspect every older generation moaned/moans about the language of the newest generation

I also suspect that Chaucer's generation moaned a lot too, as did Shakespeare's, and both of their writings I find hard to read with their 'incorrect' language and even letters - f for s for example

So yes, it can be annoying to hear 'sloppy' language bastardising our beautiful English - said every generation ever

Dave
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English has evolved constantly and will continue to do so.

In it’s evolution it has always made use of other languages and indeed from 1066, the language of the Court was a mixture with Norman French dominating. Saxon English made use of various dialectics and there is Norse and Danish derivatives in tge North East and Borders.

Coming forward to the court of Richard I (Lionheart) England had a King who did not speak English at all and spent most of his time away from England.

Middle English and the simplicity of that was a time when the evolution of patterns of speech was dialectic and local in nature.

The use of Latin was a useful common language to bind Christianity and was still in use ny the Catholic church into the 1960s.

Proper English, I would contend, does not truly exist. English is dynamic and changes all the time, and usage changes as new words and terms arrive and old ones disappear... “Ping that over to me”....

I learned my English in the late 1950s, rules, construct, spelling, punctuation etc.

I no longer grind my teeth when people use LOOSE instead of LOSE or THERE, THEIR or THEY’RE are wrongly used or interchanged.

If I can make sense of it then job done.

There is a downside though! If I am interviewing someone for Employment, I expect the candidates’ spoken English to be cogent and clear. The constant back check of “You Know” or “Like” is a killer for me. Nerves aside, it will drive me mad.
 
Hugh Jarse said:
.

I learned my English in the late 1950s, rules, construct, spelling, punctuation etc.

I no longer grind my teeth when people use LOOSE instead of LOSE or THERE, THEIR or THEY’RE are wrongly used or interchanged.

If I can make sense of it then job done.

There is a downside though! If I am interviewing someone for Employment, I expect the candidates’ spoken English to be cogent and clear. The constant back check of “You Know” or “Like” is a killer for me. Nerves aside, it will drive me mad.
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What about Your and You're?
 
A bit old and about spelling not grammar, you may of seen it already but nothing to loose so hear goes!

Eye halve a spelling chequer
It came with my pea sea
It plainly marques four my revue
Miss steaks eye kin knot sea.

Eye strike a quay and type a word
And weight four it two say
Weather eye am wrong oar write
It shows me strait a weigh.

As soon as a mist ache is maid
It nose bee fore two long
And eye can put the error rite
Its rare lea ever wrong.

Eye have run this poem threw it
I yam shore your pleased two no
Its letter perfect awl the weigh
My chequer tolled me sew.
 
People saying 'of' instead of have sounds quite sweet. But when writing, it's best avoided.

Worse is the new Internet shorthand, like cu and ru.
Suvv said:
A bit old and about spelling not grammar, you may of seen it already but nothing to loose so hear goes!

Eye halve a spelling chequer
It came with my pea sea
It plainly marques four my revue
Miss steaks eye kin knot sea.

Eye strike a quay and type a word
And weight four it two say
Weather eye am wrong oar write
It shows me strait a weigh.

As soon as a mist ache is maid
It nose bee fore two long
And eye can put the error rite
Its rare lea ever wrong.

Eye have run this poem threw it
I yam shore your pleased two no
Its letter perfect awl the weigh
My chequer tolled me sew.
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Nice use of homonyms. Words that sound the same but have a different meaning.
I started collecting them and was amazed to find several hundred. Here is my list just for the letter C:
caught court
cereal serial
ceiling sealing
cells sells
chuff chough
choose chews
cite site sight
canvas canvass
clause claws
coarse, course, cause
censor sensor
cord chord
copyright, copywrite
complement compliment
council counsel
creak, creek
curb, kerb
cue queue
currant, current
 
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ianp5a said:
Nice use of hominyms. Words that sound the same but have a different meaning.
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Shouldn't that be homOnyms? Actually, it should be homophones. ;) :P
 
Nod said:
Shouldn't that be homOnyms? Actually, it should be homophones. ;) :P
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Yes homonyms. My auto correct changed it so I must have spelled it wrongly before. Homophones are similar.
 
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neil_g said:
Taken any exams recently? Never mind months and months of written coursework?
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The last exams were taken nearly two years ago for the fitness instruction course. The Anatomy and Physiology was multiple choice (46/50 - 92%), as was Principles of Fitness. The Health and Safety was I think answering the questions in more detail.
I left school in 1975, and none of my exams were multiple choice. I took an ONC in Financial Studies (Accounts, Politics, Government and Business Law) in 1980, and again not one part of that was mulitple choice.
 
ianp5a said:
Thanks. Fixed it.

Now my auto correct is suggesting homosexuality for homonym.
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I was waiting for someone to suggest a homophone was a person that hates gay people. :(
 
Phil V said:
We were ‘modern’ and had some 16+ subjects (the precursor to GCSE) and I took commerce (would now be economics) and Social Studies (politics) for my humanities subjects, because they seemed more relevant than geography and history which back then was all about naming rivers and kings and queens.

.
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In my day Humanities encompassed economics and social studies together, it was its own thing.
And there was no History and Geography, that was homogenized in to....Histography...lol, which would probably fall in to the category of language evolution.
Evolution..my 4rs3, its just plain crap, but that's what we were taught, that "histography" was an actual thing and not made up word for the convenience of teaching 2 subjects under 1 banner.:cautious:
 
Every name is called a noun,

As field and fountain, street and town.

In place of noun the pronoun stands,

As he and she can clap their hands.

The adjective describes a thing,

As magic wand or bridal ring.

The verb means action, something done,

As read and write and jump and run.

How things are done the adverbs tell,

As quickly, badly, slowly, well.

The preposition shows relation,

As in the street or at the station.

Conjunctions join, in many ways,

Sentences, words or phrase and phrase.

The interjection cries out “Hark!

I need an exclamation mark!”
 
Swissy said:
When i look at Facebook I shudder at how grammatically inept a lot of younger people are, and i'm Italian :)
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It’s not only younger people, some of my friends who are in their 50s and 60s are equally guilty. A lot of it is down to autocorrect, but some is just laziness or bad education. My pet bugbear is a friend of mine who can’t spell or punctuate to save his life; maybe acceptable if he was a thicko, but he’s a full time school teacher.
 
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Swissy said:
When i look at Facebook I shudder at how grammatically inept a lot of younger people are, and i'm Italian :)
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My Italian teacher (who is originally from Taranto in Puglia) says many Italian people don't use the conjuntivo correctly, especially the conjuntivo imperfetto, so it's not just us English that abuse our own language ...

I have to admit I struggle with which tense to use after 'se'
 
ianp5a said:
Yes homonyms. My auto correct changed it so I must have spelled it wrongly before. Homophones are similar.
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Homonyms are words that are spelled and sometimes pronounced the same but with different meanings - lie and spelt being two that spring to mind. Homophones sound the same but are spelt differently - the word is derived from the Greek words homo (same) and phone (sound).
 
The English language has been evolving for 100's of years. I know it can be annoying, I get just as annoyed when I see the way youths of today speak and write. Just think yourself lucky we don't have to talk like Shakespear anymore
 
Shakespeare was a genius.

“Oh, she doth teach the torches to burn bright!
It seems she hangs upon the cheek of night
Like a rich jewel in an Ethiope’s ear,
Beauty too rich for use, for earth too dear.
So shows a snowy dove trooping with crows
As yonder lady o'er her fellows shows.
The measure done, I’ll watch her place of stand,
And, touching hers, make blessèd my rude hand.
Did my heart love till now? Forswear it, sight!
For I ne'er saw true beauty till this night.”
 
Steve Smith said:
We don't use Latin words in English, per se.


Steve.
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It is reckoned over 50% of the English Language is derived from Latin, so how can you say that. Latin is still used in a lot of legal work.
 
gad-westy said:
There's a radio advert for a Volvo at the moment that goes something along the lines of:

"Less controls means more control"

Drives me mad listening to it.
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I think you will find that is just a deliberate play on words. Less control(s) means more control. Fewer control(s) means more control wouldn't make sense in that context.
 
munch said:
It is reckoned over 50% of the English Language is derived from Latin, so how can you say that. Latin is still used in a lot of legal work.
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LOL
 
munch said:
It is reckoned over 50% of the English Language is derived from Latin, so how can you say that. Latin is still used in a lot of legal work.
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!
 
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