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Englands fastest speeders
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I don't think they are quite ready for our Steve just yet.You could always go live there.
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You could always go live there.
I've visited Germany a few times. Lovely country actually. Especially down in Bavaria. It's not such a bad idea.
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Well, another traffic cop here. With regards to speed causing the collision, no, you can't always blame speed for that. In fact, very rarely is it the cause. However, it does effect the outcomes when people do make mistakes and lose control. That effect makes the difference between a non injury collision, and a fatal (and in a few of my experiences, multiple fatalities).
I've seen a motorbike hit a van so hard, the kinetic force actually flipped the van over. Needless to say a couple of people died in that one...
On a side note, one way you can tell if excess speed is involved in bike collisions is how far away from the torso the head is found (most of the time, still strapped into its helmet).
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Down here a couple of years ago, a motorcycle hit a 4x4 so hard that most of the motorcyclist ended up inside the 4x4. Killing him and the 4x4 driver.
Steve.
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Yep, I know about that one too, between Ryde and Newport per chance?
Byker28i
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Pros and Cons
Last year, Road Safety Minister Stephen Hammond said he wanted tests in three areas and it could pave the way for the first national motorway speed limit increase in 50 years.
Mr Hammond said: “Our philosophy is that we should have the right speed on the right road. You probably will not see it happen before the summer of next year.”
Both the AA and RAC welcomed the move and argued the current 70mph limit was introduced in 1964 when it was the top speed of most cars.
AA president Edmund King said: “Our view is that 80mph in a modern car, in good weather, driven at a safe distance from the car in front, is a safe speed.”
And the RAC’s Pete Williams added: “We urge the Government to stand by this commitment to carry out a comprehensive trial so we can properly understand the pros and cons of raising the motorway limit.”
But road safety charity Brake is against the move.
Senior campaigns officer Ellen Booth said: “The evidence is there that 80mph limits would mean more deaths and injuries, so even a trial could lead to more families suffering the horror of a serious crash.”
Last year, Road Safety Minister Stephen Hammond said he wanted tests in three areas and it could pave the way for the first national motorway speed limit increase in 50 years.
Mr Hammond said: “Our philosophy is that we should have the right speed on the right road. You probably will not see it happen before the summer of next year.”
Both the AA and RAC welcomed the move and argued the current 70mph limit was introduced in 1964 when it was the top speed of most cars.
AA president Edmund King said: “Our view is that 80mph in a modern car, in good weather, driven at a safe distance from the car in front, is a safe speed.”
And the RAC’s Pete Williams added: “We urge the Government to stand by this commitment to carry out a comprehensive trial so we can properly understand the pros and cons of raising the motorway limit.”
But road safety charity Brake is against the move.
Senior campaigns officer Ellen Booth said: “The evidence is there that 80mph limits would mean more deaths and injuries, so even a trial could lead to more families suffering the horror of a serious crash.”
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Byker28i
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And how's your Dutch?
http://www.vejdirektoratet.dk/da/Sider/Default.aspx
A two-year experiment by the Danish Road Directorate shows accidents have fallen on single-carriageway rural roads and motorways where the speed limit was raised.
Since the speed limit on some stretches of two-way rural roads was increased from 80 to 90 km/h, accidents have decreased due to a reduction in the speed differential between the slowest and fastest cars, resulting in less overtaking. The slowest drivers have increased their speeds, but the fastest 15 per cent drive one km/h slower on average, despite the higher limit. While the average speed remains similar to before, the speeds are more homogeneous on the roads in question.
The police were initially sceptical of the move, fearing that people would drive even faster, but they have now changed their minds. As Erik Mather, a senior Danish traffic police officer admitted, "The police are perhaps a little biased on this issue, but we've had to completely change our view now that the experiment has gone on for two years."
On sections of motorway where the speed limit was raised from 110 to 130 km/h nine years ago, fatalities also decreased.
Alliance of British Drivers (ABD) joint chairman Brian Gregory comments, "These findings vindicate what the ABD has been saying for years, that raising unreasonably low speed limits improves road safety by reducing speed differentials and driver frustration. They also confirm decades of research from the USA and UK on the setting of speed limits. It is now time for the Government to push ahead with raising the motorway speed limit to 80 mph. It must also change its guidance to local authorities on setting speed limits, so that they are once again set at a level that commands the respect of drivers. This means reinstating the 85th percentile principle - setting limits that 85 percent of drivers would not wish to exceed. Those who have argued that lower speed limits improve safety have been proved wrong."
http://www.vejdirektoratet.dk/da/Sider/Default.aspx
A two-year experiment by the Danish Road Directorate shows accidents have fallen on single-carriageway rural roads and motorways where the speed limit was raised.
Since the speed limit on some stretches of two-way rural roads was increased from 80 to 90 km/h, accidents have decreased due to a reduction in the speed differential between the slowest and fastest cars, resulting in less overtaking. The slowest drivers have increased their speeds, but the fastest 15 per cent drive one km/h slower on average, despite the higher limit. While the average speed remains similar to before, the speeds are more homogeneous on the roads in question.
The police were initially sceptical of the move, fearing that people would drive even faster, but they have now changed their minds. As Erik Mather, a senior Danish traffic police officer admitted, "The police are perhaps a little biased on this issue, but we've had to completely change our view now that the experiment has gone on for two years."
On sections of motorway where the speed limit was raised from 110 to 130 km/h nine years ago, fatalities also decreased.
Alliance of British Drivers (ABD) joint chairman Brian Gregory comments, "These findings vindicate what the ABD has been saying for years, that raising unreasonably low speed limits improves road safety by reducing speed differentials and driver frustration. They also confirm decades of research from the USA and UK on the setting of speed limits. It is now time for the Government to push ahead with raising the motorway speed limit to 80 mph. It must also change its guidance to local authorities on setting speed limits, so that they are once again set at a level that commands the respect of drivers. This means reinstating the 85th percentile principle - setting limits that 85 percent of drivers would not wish to exceed. Those who have argued that lower speed limits improve safety have been proved wrong."
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So, in other words, speed doesn't kill, just the rapid slowing down in the few times it actually is to blame.
All that other stuff, head from torso's, you cannot be any more dead than dead. Dead at 70, dead at 100. Its all the same. Dead.
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Very true. Once you're over 50, most of the time the rest matters not, it simply lowers the odds of a bad outcome.
Even at 30 mph, a head on collision between two law abiding motorists could have upwards of a 60mph force of impact. In something insubstantial, such as a classic mini, any pre 90's car (or Daihatsu!) or a motorbike, even at 30 you still have a fair chance of death from the force of a collision. I've seen this a few times too, especially where seat belts haven't been worn.
Most deaths are simply *caused* by carelessness, in combination with another factor, be it speed, drink, drugs or something else.
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It was all in that 1/5th of a second thing, from the collision, to being impaled on the steering collumn, it happens in under a second. Of course speed will increase the chances of a bad outcome, but the bad outcome isn't usually because of the speed but because of poor steering, braking, lack of observation, inappropriate speed for a corner, conditions, approaching junction etc, a lack of awareness of other motorists.
If we all set limits to be truly safe, no matter how bad the driving is, we'd have to drive at 10mph. Maybe 15 tops.
Polis said as much when I was caught, he said, what would happen if you crashed at 138mph. I said, what would happen if I crashed at 70....I'd be dead, its the same outcome, maybe a bit easier to ID my body from the wreckage. He wasn't impressed but took the point...LOL
Bernie174
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I wonder if you'd feel the same way if your relatives were killed or injured as a result? I somehow doubt it.
Speed is always fun, until you have to deal with he consequences. Trust me it's a very very long walk up a garden path, knowing the the news you are about to break, simply to because idiots think they can drive fast, is about to ruin a family's life. I'd suggest you try that before you go blatting about at 100+, but frankly I don't wish it on anyone.
onomatopoeia
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That is precisely what a traffic policeman from Avon & Somerset told us a few years ago when a club I belong to had a tour of their headquarters building. He seemed to think it was less than significantly 10% of (accident / collision / incidents) caused by excess speed, although it was a contributing factor to severity more often.
The chap from forensics department (sorry, don't remember the exact name) was interesting too, he was completely against the retention of fingerprints and DNA from people not convicted.
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I'd live with it. Accident's do happen. It's a risk of the roads.
It's the nature of your job. Truth be told, how often is it that speed is the sole factor in you having that conversation?
Bernie174
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In terms of cause of death, speed inevitably is the cause. So, if you were walking and walk into a car, the worse you'll get is a bruise. Make that a car hitting you at 30, and I mean at 30, not slowing down from, then it's likely to be a serious injury, 40 and above, and the Co-op get another customer. In that sense almost all the conversations revolve around speed.
If it's 2 cars, yes to an extent you are protected, but that degree of protection decreases the faster you go. It's true that some people will walk away from a very high speed crash, but the chances of that are low.
So in summary, you can claim, and I don't go along with the theory, that speed isn't responsible for most accidents, but the impact, in both senses of the word is responsible for the resulting injury. There is no point in claiming that there is better protection in cars now, that just leads people into a false sense of security.
So how do you mitigate against it? Well, it's not by putting speed limits up. You can do that, but only after you make people better equipped to deal with high speed driving.
How many of you have been on a skid pan for example? Very few. How many of you have ever had any form of training in driving on a road at high speed, again, very very few. Yet you assume the day after your test you can dash about at warp fact 10. As I keep saying when ability matches ambition, then put the limits up, as that's never going to happen, keep them as they are.
I am trained too, yet I don't go rushing about at high speed, but I am therefore qualified to comment on other peoples driving, and in most cases it is dangerous at the speeds they travel at.
If it's 2 cars, yes to an extent you are protected, but that degree of protection decreases the faster you go. It's true that some people will walk away from a very high speed crash, but the chances of that are low.
So in summary, you can claim, and I don't go along with the theory, that speed isn't responsible for most accidents, but the impact, in both senses of the word is responsible for the resulting injury. There is no point in claiming that there is better protection in cars now, that just leads people into a false sense of security.
So how do you mitigate against it? Well, it's not by putting speed limits up. You can do that, but only after you make people better equipped to deal with high speed driving.
How many of you have been on a skid pan for example? Very few. How many of you have ever had any form of training in driving on a road at high speed, again, very very few. Yet you assume the day after your test you can dash about at warp fact 10. As I keep saying when ability matches ambition, then put the limits up, as that's never going to happen, keep them as they are.
I am trained too, yet I don't go rushing about at high speed, but I am therefore qualified to comment on other peoples driving, and in most cases it is dangerous at the speeds they travel at.
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Not a real one... but when we were younger, myself and my brother used to go out and 'play' on empty car parks when it was icy.
I always stated that if you can't control a car going sideways when you intend it to happen, you won't be able to do it when it takes you by surprise... and it was fun!
Speed is the factor which adds energy to an object with mass. And as I stated earlier, it increases it exponentially.
Steve.
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Some years after passing my test and cuting my teeth on an A35 van ( brakes? what brakes? ) and an Austin 1100, (FWD? Pah!)
I moved onto 3L capri's and had quite a few. Pure driving pleasure
( and latterly the 2.8Is But that was a completely different animal altogether, it took a lot more on the loud peddle to get a "back end re-action" from that one).
They were the most fun you can have in the wet, with your cloths on.
I made it my businesses to seek out deserted car parks (yes they did exist in those days)
especially in the snow and ice, that taught me a hell of a lot about driving, control and anticipation,
from the merest twitch of the back wheels.
Of course living in the land of roundabouts, driving was always a pleasure in the wet, after a dry spell.
Thats 2 of us then Steve
Bernie174
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Yes, it is fun, although it wasn't the idea of the exercise when I did it.
The point remains almost none of the pro speeding lobby has any training, or experience in proper high speed driving and car control. Any fool can drive fast, but it takes experience, skill, training and practice to do it safely.
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In a straight line.
On other roads with bends and twists in it.
I'd be interested on your thoughts on the above Bernie
cosmicma
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at the price of fuel today who wants to be driving at 80mph i know i don't
i want as many miles for my money as the car will give me at a reasonable speed which in my car is around 65mph
it's an age old discussion which nobody can give a good enough reason to raise the speed limit i think our roads / motorways are in general too congested even at night the motorways are not empty
the road conditions are not getting any better raising the speed limit isn't the answer
i want as many miles for my money as the car will give me at a reasonable speed which in my car is around 65mph
it's an age old discussion which nobody can give a good enough reason to raise the speed limit i think our roads / motorways are in general too congested even at night the motorways are not empty
the road conditions are not getting any better raising the speed limit isn't the answer
ancient_mariner
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Raising the speed limit probably wouldn't affect traffic speed much (and there was evidence cited above, rather than it just being conjecture) but it would reduce the number of drivers that break the law, and that would bring more credibility* to law enforcement dealing with offenders.
*Law enforcement don't have credibility when it comes to speeding offences, as demonstrated from the answers in this thread. That isn't their fault especially, but to use a phrase once popular, the law is an ass, at least in this area.
*Law enforcement don't have credibility when it comes to speeding offences, as demonstrated from the answers in this thread. That isn't their fault especially, but to use a phrase once popular, the law is an ass, at least in this area.
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As I drive a so called gas guzzler it makes virtually no difference if I drive at 50/60mph
80 / 90 mph (which actually the V6 seems most comfortable cruising at, not that I would of course, just saying
)
Byker28i
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Apart from the dutch report mentioned above that they say a reduction in accidents due to less overtaking?
Decriminalising an offence? Happened with plenty of other 'offences' in the past.
To be honest the biggest factor in reducing speeding wasn't the cameras it was when fuel went suddenly to £1.30 a litre. For about 3 months there were hardly any people speeding, but now thats the normal price people have reverted to normal driving.
However this isn't a good solution, simply raising the price, as it affects the cost of everything we buy and use.
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ancient_mariner
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As I drive a so called gas guzzler it makes virtually no difference if I drive at 50/60mph
80 / 90 mph (which actually the V6 seems most comfortable cruising at, not that I would of course, just saying
We used to own a Citreon CX GTI 2.5 - hardly a fast car, but certainly not economical. That seemed to do 25mpg running down the M40 at 70 or driving through France during the night at a *bit more than that*. Certainly some cars are most ecconomical at 56mph, but for others that's not necessarily true. I've found economy far more affected by driving technique than speed, and can make my present 307 diesel do about 38-40mpg cruising at 45mph and about 60-70mpg at 70mph.
cosmicma
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As I drive a so called gas guzzler it makes virtually no difference if I drive at 50/60mph
80 / 90 mph (which actually the V6 seems most comfortable cruising at, not that I would of course, just saying
for some reason my diesel civic is happiest at around 65mph i'd probably squeeze a couple of more mpg at 55 - 60mph but competing with hgv's is no fun
Byker28i
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Make that 4. I did it the very first winter after passing my test, my son did the same after passing his test also.Thats 2 of us then Steve
Mikesphotaes
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Aye, the Bumble fella has already been quoted on this thread!
viv1969
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I have to disagree on one point.
5 days a week my commute takes in 2 motorways and 2 major A roads in both directions, and I would say that the majority, whatever the car, are still cruising along at 60/65 mph, and I'd still put that down to optimising fuel consumption.
Obviously there's still the k******d contingent, weaving from lane to lane at high speed; but there's always the hope off seeing them wrapped around a side barrier a few miles on.
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And that was another (Brussels ) stupid idea that only the Brits took any notice of,
limiting HGV's to 56 mph when the legal road limit on Motorways is 60 Mph
Now that caused bunching and some very dangerous manoeuvres,
trying to overtake and pulling into the middle lane, when managing to squeeze 56.5 MPh,
to overtake someone else doing 56 Mph.
Yes I do understand the "problems" of HGV drives I was one for many years.
But I think it proves what happens when you lower a speed limit just a hand full of MPH.
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What is worse is the 4 lane sections of the M25 where the first 3 lanes are lorries taking a week to overtake each other whilst someone is causing further tailbacks in their car in the outside lane overtaking the lot only 1 or 2 mph faster. Worse still when there's Tesco and Argos lorry drivers who must be restricted to 50mph and must leave the depots on mass.And that was another (Brussels ) stupid idea that only the Brits took any notice of,
limiting HGV's to 56 mph when the legal road limit on Motorways is 60 Mph
Now that caused bunching and some very dangerous manoeuvres,
trying to overtake and pulling into the middle lane, when managing to squeeze 56.5 MPh,
to overtake someone else doing 56 Mph.
Yes I do understand the "problems" of HGV drives I was one for many years.
But I think it proves what happens when you lower a speed limit just a hand full of MPH.
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So the folk on the A roads are giving it laldy and the folk on the motorways are saving fuel, that sounds logical.
Wait a minute, forgot you were the fairer sex, no logic required
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I did a stint for Tesco's a few years back (free lance)
You got your wrists severely slapped if you dared break the speed limit.
(tacho's were inspected at the end of every day, and the routes were predetermined)
The routes were designed to be able to be completed within in a very generous time scale,
so there was no need to even get close to the speed limit.
I assume that is still the case.
But also the runs were timed so there was something like 20 mins between departures,
so the no "following rule" was also enforced.
I guess the latter must have been dropped.
(Can't speak for the Argos drives though)
viv1969
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So the folk on the A roads are giving it laldy and the folk on the motorways are saving fuel, that sounds logical.
Wait a minute, forgot you were the fairer sex, no logic required
Well a) I have no idea what laldy means and b) the limit on the A roads (apart from a short stretch) is 70.
So did you aactually have a point?
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As far as Tesco is concerned they have two depots right next to each other just off the A13 in Rainham, I suspect they may also have a depot just over the river in Kent so it's not unusual to get a couple on the same stretch of the M25.
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Why make a distinction between A roads and motorways if both are the same speed limit?