Energy Price Freeze

cambsno

cambsno

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Firstly this is NOT a political thread. It could have been implemented by any party and don't want to discuss how good/bad labour are...

... I really am struggling to see the point of this or any benefit and how anyone thinks it's a good idea. It is lip service that's all.

Firstly the price freeze will not even last 2 years and any true saving is likely to be £1 a week or so. Wow.

In any case, all the energy companies will do us jack up prices before and after so no saving overall. They will make sure that prices over the next 5 years will average out at what they would have been.

Finally, it's a bit rich to criticise utility companies for price rises when we all pay more and more tax each year regardless of who is in, or continued increase in booze and fags!
 
a freeze wouldnt help the average customer, what is needed is a cut, but that'll never happen!
 
It's happened in the US with all the shale gas coming on stream.
Here we have NIMBYs though and the greens have too much influence so want you to pay as much as possible for energy.
 
I can't see how this could possibly work. How can a price freeze be imposed on something, the cost of which is dependant upon worldwide wholesale markets?
 
maybe like the fair fuel stbiliser , which is holding car fuel prices at about 1.40 for deisel (ie that everytime the fuel companies put fuel up, the tax on it is reduced by the same ammount , and that taxation added to the companies tax bill instead)

which was/is a tory policy
 
Whatever happens something does need to be done, the majority of houses can only utilise gas for heating and it's a necessity rather than a luxury in the UK.

The price should be regulated, and it could be a great deal cheaper, when you have a single gas company with an annual operating profit of £2.7 billion, something is wrong, especially when they can afford to give a £500 million dividend back to shareholders (and yet bleat there isn't enough for network improvements).
 
A load of hot air, if you ask me.
 
Again, this is not political, but just refers to the economic system which we are using - free trade Capitalism.
How is it possible to even think about freezing energy prices, when no government has been able to interfere with the finances of the private sector, be it salaries, bonuses or price structure?
 
Its farcical. The energy companies are and have been making profits of billions by over inflating the selling price of fuel to the masses for years and years. They are no different to the banks in the way they have been operating.

OK Red Ed might not have said the right words, but he probably said something that will sound good to the electorate, unlike Cameron who suggested that the customer was to shop around for the best deals, something I find a joke as all the energy companies are in each others pockets and fixing the energy prices anyhow . I think the speech the numpty made was meant as a shot across the energy companies bows, they certainly listened to it else they wouldn't have made threats about power outages ( reminds you of the 70s).
 
The only proper solution is community generation schemes. Supply more capacity and prices will fall. Or have a nationalised generation company that undercuts the lot of them.
 
1/ Freeze energy prices
2/ Drill 10,000 fracking wells
3/ Cost of domestic energy drops 90%
4/ But the price we pay has been fixed
5/ So everyone is paying way over the odds, and Milliband becomes the richest man on the planet

A plan so cunning you could stick a tail on it and call it a weasel. ;)
 
a bunch of mindless jerks who'll be first against the wall when the revolution comes
 
I think its already taken by the marketing division of the sirriuss cybernetics company ;)
 
It's a complete an utter unachievable farce, spewed out by an idiot looking to con voters.

If Eddy really wants to reduce the household energy bills, he should pledge to get rid of the green taxes. They are something like 15% of your bill. Next stop, there is the government requirement for energy suppliers to install smart meter in each home by 2020. Who do you think is paying for that? Yep, that's right, us (and it's not cheap!). Maybe Cousin Ed could, I dunno, pledge to help support this financially too.

OK, the money normally collected here would have to go into general taxation, but then those in fuel poverty would not be paying for all that stuff.

This is the problem, suppliers don't actually make very much profit from residential supplies. I know last year for my supplier it was 2.3% - not really that much - and it is one of the biggest suppliers.

Yes, something needs to be done. What Ed Milliband suggested it not it.
 
of course if you want to lower your energy bill you could also use less (which is the idea of the green taxes and smart meters)

just insulating lofts properly and turning off stuff you don't need could get the average bill down considerably
 
big soft moose said:
of course if you want to lower your energy bill you could also use less (which is the idea of the green taxes and smart meters)

just insulating lofts properly and turning off stuff you don't need could get the average bill down considerably
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we live in a council property, everything that can be insulated has been, they've fitted an "energy efficient" heating system etc etc, yet we still continue to go into debt with our energy bills, and believe you me we cannot scrimp another penny away from other things money is spent on, we already scrap every bit of income we have to buy the essentials
 
yeah sure - I realise not everyone can ( I'm in pretty much the same boat although I rent privately).

however a hell of a lot of people have every light in the house on, all the appliances on standby, boil far more water than they need , turn the radiators up instead of putting another jumper on ... and then sit around moaning about how energy costs too much.
 
srichards said:
Or have a nationalised generation company that undercuts the lot of them.
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It always used to be (and may still be) that the nationalised nuclear power stations undercut everyone on generating costs by bidding in at the lowest price every hour, so that their electric was always bought by the grid. . It may not work like that any more, I haven't follow the way the electricity market has evolved in the last 20 years.

I want to know if Mr Milliband also intends to freeze the prices for domestic heating oil, Calor gas (the stuff that comes in bottles or in a refillable tank), coal, timber for woodburning systems and other "non-grid" heating schemes.
 
big soft moose said:
yeah sure - I realise not everyone can ( I'm in pretty much the same boat although I rent privately).

however a hell of a lot of people have every light in the house on, all the appliances on standby, boil far more water than they need , turn the radiators up instead of putting another jumper on ... and then sit around moaning about how energy costs too much.
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Appliances on standby use miniscule amounts of power. I'd agree with you about bulbs if the person complaining has been hoarding incandescents because they "don't like the light" from LED or CFL lamps.

I'm afraid I have the temperature in my house at a comfortable level that does not require me to look like the Michelin man with multiple layers of clothing.
 
onomatopoeia said:
Appliances on standby use miniscule amounts of power. .
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individually yes - but multiply it by the millions of devices on stand by across the country
 
If you want new power stations, new gas platforms to supply the gas and petrol in your car then I'm afraid the energy companies need to make a profit so they can re-invest. They need to make a big dividend payment so their share price stays stable as this in turn allows them to generate loans to pay for new platforms, onshore storage etc. So by all means cap their selling price but expect job losses in the UK construction and design industries to follow. Please also expect the companies to then sell their remaining fuel other than to the UK and watch our power stations that remain shutdown for lack of fuel, hospitals cancel operations and firms go onto a 3 day week as the power cuts bite and slash salaries accordingly. That will sort the economy out and make Britain great again l bet.
 
I'm still working on an Arc reactor plan :p

On a serious note, I'm getting wound up with heating oil prices, when I first bought our cottage in 2008 it would cost £180 for 500 litres of fuel delivered, less than 5 years on and it's now costing £362 for the same amount! Oil isn't regulated by price unlike electricity and gas. I moved from Southampton of which we had an electricity meter that we would put £10 per week on, we're now paying £90 per month to southern electric even though the only things plugged in are the fridge freezer, Sky box and the router. The rest is turned off, water is heated by the oil so we have no immersion element etc, I just don't understand it!!! I've actually started putting serious money away to install some PV cells on the roof next year as we can't get planning permission for a turbine even though the nearest neighbour is 2 miles away and we're not in a wildlife conservation area etc! I personally think our Gov is a load of **** if I'm honest, what ever happened to fairness and common sense? Seems like bribery and monopoly is the key objective these days!
 
big soft moose said:
of course if you want to lower your energy bill you could also use less (which is the idea of the green taxes and smart meters)

just insulating lofts properly and turning off stuff you don't need could get the average bill down considerably
Click to expand...

Too many people are happy to sit around in too little. The wife for example... could easily put socks or a jumper on but instead moans its too cold and puts heating on!
 
Alternatively, maybe the 'regulator' should be investigating a little deeper ( or investigate,full stop! )?

2012 half year profits for SSE a whopping £398m (and that just before they raised their tariff by 9%)


27 July 2012: British Gas has angered customers today after its owner Centrica announced a 23 per cent profit rise £345million, having failed to pass on recent drops in wholesale prices.

9 Aug 2013:
Annual profits made by the UK’s big energy groups soared 73 per cent in the three years to 2012, according to figures that are poised to reignite the debate about industry charges....


Just a few lines if you google 'energy company profits 2012'. I fully understand that a company needs to make a profit, what I don't understand is how the 6 energy companies have and still are getting away with raising prices to feed the shareholder without looking after the customer. Now my thinking is,as the energy companies have threatened,if the lights do indeed go out then they will make nowt anyway;) . It all makes for an interesting read,especially when you read the paragraph about price fixing.....as if that does'nt happen.

There is making a profit and there is taking the p**s
 
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Flightphoto said:
we're now paying £90 per month to southern electric even though the only things plugged in are the fridge freezer, Sky box and the router.
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At 15p/unit, £90 is 600 units, or 20 units/day, or about 833 Watts continuous load.

The appliances you list should not consume anything like that. My bill is £50/month and I get a refund at the end of the year from paying too much. I have all of the things you list, plus various other computer things running 24/7 as well so I expect my bill to be high.

I suggest you start taking daily readings to check consumption
 
It amazes me that people feel the need to defend these companies profits! Unless they work for centrica or something?

They have basically a captive market, most people *have* to buy gas/electric to stay warm and boy do they take the p*ss out of that monopoly:

"Since 2007, gas bills have risen by an average of 41% in real terms, while electricity has gone up by 20%, according to the Office for National Statistics.
This has contributed to overall industry profits of £2.15bn in 2009, £2.22bn in 2010, £3.87bn in 2011 and £3.74bn in 2012."

Nearly £4 billion in profits??! In one year?! Jeezus H Christ. And yet still, nothing gets done. Talk about greed.

I hate the *******s with a passion.
 
DorsetDude said:
Nearly £4 billion in profits??! In one year?! Jeezus H Christ. And yet still, nothing gets done. Talk about greed.

I hate the *******s with a passion.
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Vodafone made £12bn profit last year, according to figures on their website.

How do you feel about mobile phones?
 
onomatopoeia said:
How do you feel about mobile phones?
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I can choose not to use them if I so desire. Or choose to pay very small monthly rate and have a slightly older phone model and leave it to the yuppies to pay the £50+ plus contract rates for their latest iphone5S or whatever. I have a choice.
With the big 6 energy lot, it may appear you have a choice but you dont really as they are all the same price roughly and all increase their prices together.

Like I said, I hate the *******s
 
Many of us who have private pensions actually depend on a lot of companies making decent profits and generating a good dividend. Thanks to what happened in 1997 and what the 2 Ed's are planning I am moaning about the fact I am not yet half way through my working life, having scrimped for 23 years already....and with no idea how little I have to spend.
 
DorsetDude said:
It amazes me that people feel the need to defend these companies profits! Unless they work for centrica or something?

They have basically a captive market, most people *have* to buy gas/electric to stay warm and boy do they take the p*ss out of that monopoly:

"Since 2007, gas bills have risen by an average of 41% in real terms, while electricity has gone up by 20%, according to the Office for National Statistics.
This has contributed to overall industry profits of £2.15bn in 2009, £2.22bn in 2010, £3.87bn in 2011 and £3.74bn in 2012."

Nearly £4 billion in profits??! In one year?! Jeezus H Christ. And yet still, nothing gets done. Talk about greed.

I hate the *******s with a passion.
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I'll assume that's aimed at me and no I dont work for Centrica, but I do work for Engineering contractors involved in the Energy sector (Oil & gas) and yes I am biased because if they dont make a profit they dont re-invest. I was out of work for 9 months last time the Oil price dropped so I need these companies to re-invest, but so do we all because as I said earlier the costs of an Oil/Gas Platforms are astronomic and if we dont replace the wells that are drying up we'll have an energy shortage unless we plug it with imported coal or nuclear and they will be no cheaper to produce electricity. We have a stark choice - pay up or shut up, the 3rd world is becoming a huge consumer of energy and they are driving up consumption of a resource with a limited supply which in turn drives up prices, supply and demand, simple. Either as a community (world) we use less or we'll all pay more and it wont get any easier, the days of cheap energy died in the 70's when the Arab's jacked up the price, we (the West) decided to go get our energy from inhospitable places so we had a secure source and that costs money, a lot of money.
Its always easy to assume large profits are the result of greed and to an extent you may be correct but these profits drive future invention (horizontal drilling, fracking etc), exploration and production, which is getting more and more costly, the alternative is very unpleasant in my view.
So if you dont like the price of your energy bill, use less, its the same for your food bill or any other bill, but many choose to continue using whatever the resource is at the same level and moan because they have to pay more for a dwindly resource, be it food, water or anything else.

The simple fact is we (humans) are too numerous for the planet to support and yet we continue to want better and more and more consumables, we are coming to the end of that as its unsustainable.

Matt
 
Im sorry to hear that you were out of work matt.
Is nearly £4 billion profit, in one year, not enough for them to make reinvestment out of though? I mean come on.
And yes I can see what you're saying regarding 3rd world usage rising and costs higher etc but with all that in place and they are still making obscene profits, something somewhere is very corrupt. IMO.
 
DorsetDude said:
Im sorry to hear that you were out of work matt.
Is nearly £4 billion profit, in one year, not enough for them to make reinvestment out of though? I mean come on.
And yes I can see what you're saying regarding 3rd world usage rising and costs higher etc but with all that in place and they are still making obscene profits, something somewhere is very corrupt. IMO.
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I'm not saying its a perfect system, far from it but if Eon or whoever post less profit then they will lose their shareholder base as peoploe will sell their shares and move them into something that makes continuous or a better profit/dividend (e.g pension funds will move away so they can pay out to their pensioners) and tbh if Electricity profit has gone up 20% in 6 years its "only" 3% per year, hardly massive. Gas looks to be a different mater but teh price of gas is tied to crude oil (for some reason) and reducing crude oil stocks have pushed up its price and gas also although the profit on crude oil hasnt risen much.

If the share price drops (because of investor selling) then their market capitalisation drops and they cant raise money in the markets that is sufficient to re-invest, not all of the profit is re-invested, even after paying dividend, money is left as cash-in-hand (or bank) in case of emergencies e.g a big oil spill.

So no its not a great system but its what we have as a capitalist society and as painful as it is to see OAP and most of us etc struggling to pay the ever increasing fuel bills conservation is the only answer IMO (which of course would put me out of work again :) )

Things are rarely as B&W as they seem, and I am sure buried somewhere deep inside all of this are some fat cats having a very nice lifestyle paid for in a large part by the "working" class. But then is it fair some Oligarch buys a football club and effectively buys the premiership or European title with our money and charges us a fortune to go see them play, that's another thread I feel.

Matt
 
MatBin said:
Gas looks to be a different mater but teh price of gas is tied to crude oil (for some reason) and reducing crude oil stocks have pushed up its price and gas also although the profit on crude oil hasnt risen much.
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Unfortunately some of the energy companies failed to recognise this fact,as they chose not to cut the price of gas to the customer when the price of crude fell, instead they used the excuse that they needed to keep the price up and use the loot to invest in the gas supply structure,yeah right more like give the big cheeses a nice big bonus and fatten up the divy. I worked for BG for nearly 25 years, I started in 1983 (it was Wales gas then as they were known locally,before privatisation) and left in 2007 because I was absolutley fed up to the back teeth with the bull they not only feed the punters but their employees too,in my opinion they are the lower than a snakes ass,just greedy,greedy b....... who will stoop to any level to make a buck out the unfortunate customer.
 
I have a question.

How much profit, as a percentage, do you think would be fair for an energy company to make from a residential customer?
 
What a daft question to ask. What ever answer anyone would give you would be the wrong answer.
 
DorsetDude said:
I can choose not to use them if I so desire. Or choose to pay very small monthly rate and have a slightly older phone model and leave it to the yuppies to pay the £50+ plus contract rates for their latest iphone5S or whatever. I have a choice.
With the big 6 energy lot, it may appear you have a choice but you dont really as they are all the same price roughly and all increase their prices together.
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At least for heating you can choose not to use any of them. There is no law that says you must heat your home using mains gas or electricity. Other options are available, the most common being domestic heating oil.
 
Lets get into this shale gas. I am sure the energy company's are paying the protesters that are camping outside the rigs.
 
onomatopoeia said:
At least for heating you can choose not to use any of them. There is no law that says you must heat your home using mains gas or electricity. Other options are available, the most common being domestic heating oil.
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Explain how that works for urban houses, flats or terraces.

Do you demolish next door to site the tank? I would suggest anyone living in any of the large cities has no choice but electricity or gas.

Or for any rented property...
 
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