Electricity saving "game"

All this 'drive' to reduce peak demand and smooth out overall demand.......

Reminds of a few years back there was much debate(?) of and about the UK electricity generation infrastructure and planning and the shrinking "overhead" in the capacity.

IIRC and AFAIK coal fired and nuclear provided base load with nuclear also providing peak load demand due to the speed at which they could 'flip a switch to increase output' when needed. NB the only significant renewable at that time was pumped hydro. Also at that time the available overhead was approx >25%

Then came the rush to gas because of the rapid start up time and lower pollution of gas compared to coal. But this coincided with coal being closed down and nuclear capacity (due to EOL shutdowns) reduction meant the overhead was projected to shrink to approximately 5%........with hardly an electric car on the horizon plus renewables still in their infancy.

As I perceive it, we are in a kind of interstitial phase but still without the medium to long-term planning to keep industry and the lights on from 2030 onwards :thinking:

PS key & strategic infrastructure projects should be politically neutral and bipartisan and "short termism" must stop for the good of everyone!

PPS I wonder.....did "we" reopen that Johnson era closure of the gas storage field?
 
wyx087 said:
Yes, big freezes will always put strain on the grid and they need the capacity to meet the peak demands. I believe those coal plants on stand-by are the contingency.

But that' doesn't remove the need for general population to reduce their demand during the peak period wherever possible. For example, running washing machine during 4-7pm is just selfish.
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By that logic watching TV, using your computer or almost anything between 4-7 is selfish.
 
There needs to be a much greater understanding amongst the general public - ie all of us - of how the system works and how we can all help to reduce the electricity that we use. If that means paying people not to use electricity at peak times it will be cheaper than having to build in extra generating capacity for peak periods only.

I was initially against getting a smart meter because as far as I could see the benefits were solely for the electricity companies, but now I understand that the feedback the el co's get from us will help in the long run to reduce our need for electricity generation.

How long has it taken this useless government to produce advice on how to cut our power requirements to save money? Months and months and months.

And the previous government (Truss) said they wouldn't do it on principle because it reduced people's freedom - whatever that means.
 
robj20 said:
By that logic watching TV, using your computer or almost anything between 4-7 is selfish.
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By your logic ;:p I'm only talking about large loads that can be easily shifted.

Washing machine typically take 1 hour, peak time currently finishes at 7pm, so unless said person goes to sleep before 7:30, it's entirely possible to run it after peak time and still go to bed early.

Box Brownie said:
As I perceive it, we are in a kind of interstitial phase but still without the medium to long-term planning to keep industry and the lights on from 2030 onwards :thinking:
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I believe current plans by current government is loads of wind and build nuclear?
 
jerry12953 said:
There needs to be a much greater understanding amongst the general public - ie all of us - of how the system works and how we can all help to reduce the electricity that we use. If that means paying people not to use electricity at peak times it will be cheaper than having to build in extra generating capacity for peak periods only.
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I think the majority of the "sensible" general public are fully aware of the issue.

Too many people in the country.
Our stupid reliance on wind and solar in the belief that that will save the planet.
We didn't invest in nuclear 10 years ago when we should have because "it will take 10 years before we see the benefit"
Governments refusal to use coal and gas under our feet.
Banning ICE vehicles.
The push for heat pumps.

All to appease a small minority of eco zealots.
 
ecoleman said:
I think the majority of the "sensible" general public are fully aware of the issue.

Too many people in the country.
Our stupid reliance on wind and solar in the belief that that will save the planet.
We didn't invest in nuclear 10 years ago when we should have because "it will take 10 years before we see the benefit"
Governments refusal to use coal and gas under our feet.
Banning ICE vehicles.
The push for heat pumps.

All to appease a small minority of eco zealots.
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I'm well aware of your views. Has the problem of carbon emissions not registered with you yet?
 
jerry12953 said:
I'm well aware of your views. Has the problem of carbon emissions not registered with you yet?
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Just just like Global warming, The Ozone layer etc etc.

CO2 levels on earth have been 4-5 times higher than they are now. Long before humans existed. So if you can explain to me how that happened I'll be happy to take you seriously.

Also if you can explain to me how the UK is going to fix that when we only account for 1-2% of the total C02 released globally.

Can you explain how importing wood and gas from the US is any less polluting than extracting our own gas or mining our own coal bearing in mind it's shipped over in bloody great ships that are powered buy Diesel.

It a con and you're falling for it or you're just deluded.
 
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ecoleman said:
Just just like Global warming, The Ozone layer etc etc.

CO2 levels on earth have been 4-5 times higher than they are now. Long before humans existed. So if you can explain to me how that happened I'll be happy to take you seriously.

Also if you can explain to me how the UK is going to fix that when we only account for 1-2% of the total C02 released globally.

Can you explain how importing wood and gas from the US is any less polluting than extracting our own gas or mining our own coal bearing in mind it's shipped over in bloody great ships that are powered buy Diesel.

It a con and you're falling for it or you're just deluded.
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I somewhat agree with you. It's because countries are acting in their own interest not globally.
It's the "not in my backyard" attitude. But the rules are setup like that so you can't blame them.
Electric cars are a disaster for the world if you actually look into the resources it uses.

Like you say importing wood is ridiculous, wood as a fuel source is carbon neutral, unless of course you ship it around the world first.
 
ecoleman said:
Just just like Global warming, The Ozone layer etc etc.

CO2 levels on earth have been 4-5 times higher than they are now. Long before humans existed. So if you can explain to me how that happened I'll be happy to take you seriously.

Also if you can explain to me how the UK is going to fix that when we only account for 1-2% of the total C02 released globally.

Can you explain how importing wood and gas from the US is any less polluting than extracting our own gas or mining our own coal bearing in mind it's shipped over in bloody great ships that are powered buy Diesel.

It a con and you're falling for it or you're just deluded.
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I know there's absolutely no point in arguing with you. Your mind is made up and that is that. Maybe it IS me that is deluded. I hadn't thought of that.
 
Sangoma said:
True, but we are close to running out of capacity, which would then put us in the same bracket as them (for different problems), and in fact for the same reason, ignoring the problem until it is too late.
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It is hardly surprising we are running out of capacity for electricity, it is for the same reason we are running out of water, sewage treatment, doctor's surgeries, dentists surgeries, schools, et al. It's because there is no compulsion for construction companies to take into account the impact that building hundreds of thousands of houses has on the infrastructure of general society. In the nearby town to me, they have built 700 houses with an application for 400 more in the next year, that amounts to perhaps 3000-4000 new people but all the amenities have remained untouched. It is one reason why the dentist is not taking any new clients and it takes six weeks to get a simple phone call from an actual doctor for a non-urgent appointment. Electricity is just the immediately-visible utility but the others lurk beneath the radar for the moment. Wait until the water companies start asking you not to flush your toilets during certain times; they are already failing to deal with septic tank emptying (it was on the local news the other day).
 
ShinySideUp said:
It is hardly surprising we are running out of capacity for electricity, it is for the same reason we are running out of water, sewage treatment, doctor's surgeries, dentists surgeries, schools, et al. It's because there is no compulsion for construction companies to take into account the impact that building hundreds of thousands of houses has on the infrastructure of general society. In the nearby town to me, they have built 700 houses with an application for 400 more in the next year, that amounts to perhaps 3000-4000 new people but all the amenities have remained untouched. It is one reason why the dentist is not taking any new clients and it takes six weeks to get a simple phone call from an actual doctor for a non-urgent appointment. Electricity is just the immediately-visible utility but the others lurk beneath the radar for the moment. Wait until the water companies start asking you not to flush your toilets during certain times; they are already failing to deal with septic tank emptying (it was on the local news the other day).
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Pretty much agree with everything you said but it's not the construction companies fault. We need more houses. We're gonna have to put all these Albanians (and other economic migrants) somewhere.
The fault lays squarely at the door of government, both UK government and local government for not planning ahead. All they're are interested in is where they can score political points in their 5 year tenure. Nobody gives a s*** about what happens 10 years down the line on somebody else's watch.
 
I agree, although I did say, and I quote, "because there is no compulsion for construction companies to take into account the impact", implying that someone, somewhere needs to tell them that they can't just come along, destroy the green belt and then b****r off with the profits leaving the local council and existing residents to pick up the slack afterwards.
 
ShinySideUp said:
I agree, although I did say, and I quote, "because there is no compulsion for construction companies to take into account the impact", implying that someone, somewhere needs to tell them that they can't just come along, destroy the green belt and then b****r off with the profits leaving the local council and existing residents to pick up the slack afterwards.
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But they can't do that. They have to make a contribution to the wider costs of their development (s106 etc). If those contributions are too small or aren't getting allocated correctly, that rests with your local councillors.
Unfortunately, too few of us engage with local politics to hold them properly accountable.
 
They have to make a contribution to the wider costs of their development (s106 etc)
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Just because the contributions are made doesn't automatically mean they're spent where the development is. Here the developer contributions went to enlarging/refurbishing the high school 10 miles away (which the kids here would go to but not exclusively the kids from here)
 
Just doing this weeks energy saving with Octopus. Power off at the breaker but router has a UPS attached so internet working fine.

I'm not sure it's going that well in general though as the app tells me it is still calculating from the last one, that was a couple of weeks ago (even though the app said it was on the 15th March). I'll do it today but I'm not doing any more until I find out if it's worthwhile.

Anyone know how long it takes for them to work out how much you've saved?
 
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It's not currently helped by an issue within the DCC component of the Smart Metering ecosystem... Read more here https://kb.loopSPAM/27th-february-2023-partial-or-full-missing-data-since-friday-24th-february
 
My energy supplier was taken over by Octopus recently and I am now paying Octopus. They have not mentioned any energy saving scheme but I use energy as needed so cannot see how I could save without stopping something I want to do.

Dave
 
I just knock everything off. My large fish tank won't suffer for an hour and my freezers will hold a temperature for half a day as long as I don't open them. Our heating is by solid fuel and is always on so we don't get cold either. It's all quite pleasant for a short time and I stress 'a short time'.
 
Our last energy saving event earned us £0.46p!
 
I got the email about this one (I've missed the last four due to not getting the emails) so ensured I used exactly 0kWh in the allotted period. It's still calculating my "savings" at the moment.
 
ShinySideUp said:
How long did it take for the results to appear in the app? I've done it twice so far and it just says 'calculating'.
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I don't use the app. Results come via email, the time it takes varies. Usually a day or two.
 
JonathanRyan said:
I wonder how long it will be before they pay more than 4p/kwH for us to discharge our batteries back to the grid?
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The future is now.

If you have a battery and no EV then Flux is like a saving session every day. Buy power at 21p and sell it back at 38p. And that's exactly what they want you to do with it.

Now if only my car had V2G.....

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