Elderly Drivers

[viv1969]

Once a new driver passes their test they can go on a Pass Plus course for such things and it will provide a discount on insurance. But aside from that, there is little difference between driving on a motorway or a dual carriageway.

Sadly, very few insurers offer discounts that make it worthwhile laying out the cost of the course.
Uptake of Pass Plus is down 90% from 10 years ago.

 

[viv1969]

That is the answer a test but a lot of them wouldn't pass the theory test because their eye sight is poor. .

Because it's unheard of to see anyone under 75 wearing glasses.

 

[boogie man]

https://www.gov.uk/renew-driving-licence-at-70

As far as I can see there's no actually testing involved in that process, just a self declaration that your eyesight is up to minimum standards. Frankly it looks more like a cash cow for the gov't rather than anything to do with road safety.

 

[nilagin]

Sadly, very few insurers offer discounts that make it worthwhile laying out the cost of the course.
Uptake of Pass Plus is down 90% from 10 years ago.

A lot of local councils used to promote and subsidise the courses. Not so many do now and probably has had an impact.
Although it doesn't include motorway driving as it is all done off road, for a number of years now, Ford have been running free courses for under 24's, this includes driving with goggles to simulate driving under the effect of drink and or drugs and also trying to drive whilst on the phone or texting.

Young drivers can get fairly cheap insurance as part of a multicar policy anyway.

 

[viv1969]

Young drivers can get fairly cheap insurance as part of a multicar policy anyway.

Indeed.
A couple of carefully chosen named drivers can also bring it down.

 

[Gremlin]

Once a new driver passes their test they can go on a Pass Plus course for such things and it will provide a discount on insurance. But aside from that, there is little difference between driving on a motorway or a dual carriageway.

Really ? A 5 lane motorway is no different to a dual carraigeway

 

[nilagin]

Really ? A 5 lane motorway is no different to a dual carraigeway

Very rare, I've only encountered 4 lane motorways as most are 3 lane, some in places are only 2 lanes and a 3 lane motorway is no different to a 3 lane dual carriageway

 

[viv1969]

Really ? A 5 lane motorway is no different to a dual carraigeway

Number of lanes differs; the method of driving it doesn't.

 

[rclarke80]

There's an argument for testing people every so many years but I don't think that should just apply to pensioners. I see poor drivers of many ages during my day job and accidents do happen regardless of age or sex. I also think people who may be driving 40 in a 60 zone unaware of the limit is no where near as bad as someone knowingly driving 80 in the same zone.

There should be more punishment on phone use whilst driving too as you never accidently unknowingly pick up the phone whilst driving putting others at risk.

 

[nilagin]

I also think people who may be driving 40 in a 60 zone unaware of the limit is no where near as bad as someone knowingly driving 80 in the same zone.

It's a shame that there is no way of enforcing a minimum speed limit on dual carriageways and motorways. In the majority of cases, there really is no need to be travelling at 20mph below the speed limit.

 

[rclarke80]

It's a shame that there is no way of enforcing a minimum speed limit on dual carriageways and motorways. In the majority of cases, there really is no need to be travelling at 20mph below the speed limit.

No there's not, other than confusion through poor signage on dual carriageways anyway. Also notice speeds stated on sat navs vary from the real world, again though that's no excuse for not paying attention to the signage in front of you.

 

[dejongj]

No there's not, other than confusion through poor signage on dual carriageways anyway. Also notice speeds stated on sat navs vary from the real world, again though that's no excuse for not paying attention to the signage in front of you.

Poor signage? Perhaps the exception I would say, the rules around signage are quite clear. Especially when there aren't any signs and when there is a variation they are repeated, a clear indication that there is a difference by the colour and the fact that there is a sign at all

 

[Russ77]

IMO, overall driving standards are abysmal in the UK. The test is too easy to pass without a real appreciation of speed awareness, mechanical sympathy, or adverse weather conditions. As someone has already said, you don't even learn how to drive on a motorway!

The fact that a 17 year old could pass their test an jump into Bugatti Veyron (if money was no object) and would be free to travel at over 200MPH is ludicrous.

Conversely it's also worrying to think an elderly person could do the same.

Whilst it is totally unpractical to do so, I think everyone should have a driving assessment every 10 years up until the age of 60, then at 60 a medical/sight test and retest with assessments/medical every 5 years (I use 60 as a marker rather than a hard/fast rule. I know many 60 year olds that are probably as fit as a fiddle but I also know 40/50 year olds who struggle with mobility/eye sight).

If an assessment flags up any dangerous traits/issues with your driving then you would have a retest.

Also, there are people that take 5+ tests before they pass but still manage to get a license but IMO this is wrong too, if someone fails say 4 tests, they should be assessed as to whether they just get nervous because it's a test or there is a fundamental issue with concentration, perception, car control etc. We need to accept that some people can't do certain things, for example I can't draw/paint, no amount of tuition will turn me into an artist and I think there are some people that manage to fluke a test but really shouldn't be on the road......driving is a privilege rather than a right.

The driving test also needs changing, there should be compulsory elements such as driving on a motorway, adverse weather control (skidpan based) and the learning/test should be more based on Roadcraft/Advanced driving techniques.

I attended an advanced driver's course run by Essex Police when I was about 23, I had been driving around 5 years without incident and thought I'd got it sussed...... how wrong was I and tbh looking back at how I drove I'm probably luck I made it to the course

It wasn't a million years ago that I passed my test (1995) and my first car was a 1.4 Astra which was by no means fast but would go plenty fast enough to cause lots of damage. Most modern cars would out perform that old Astra I had giving new drivers even more opportunity to drive at a speed that isn't suitable for the road conditions or their ability, perhaps we should look at ways of restricting the cars that new drivers are allowed to drive (akin to how motorcycle licenses work) or take the "black box" insurance schemes a step further and limit the speed according to the road being driven (I know speed isn't the be all and end all but at least it's somewhere to start).

 

[boliston]

It's a shame that there is no way of enforcing a minimum speed limit on dual carriageways and motorways. In the majority of cases, there really is no need to be travelling at 20mph below the speed limit.

Dual carriageways often have vehicles that travel below 20mph such as horse drawn vehicles and agricultural vehicles as well as pedal cycles - a minimum speed limit would only ever work on roads that do not carry this type of vehicle such as motorways. It would not be easy to enforce as there are often reasons to go 20mph below the speed limit such as fog and heavy rain.

 

[tijuana taxi]

I'm so sorry to read about your Mum, that's terrible. As your avatar reads you drive a taxi, well you must see so many bad drivers

Thank you Shirley, poor old ma survived the blitz in the east end, but done for crossing the road.

No taxi driving for me, avatar is a bit misleading, actually refers to the tune my footie team run out to, it's this one

 

[Cobra]

I find it funny that the younger drivers think the older drives are too old to be on the road, and yet the older drivers think that the younger drivers are too dangerous to be on the road
(Which of course the latter is quite correct )

My mother died after being hit by a car whilst crossing a road on her mobility scooter.

Thats terrible Rich, sorry to hear that

That's one great improvement to the driving licence, you now hae to take a separate test to tow a trailer

Except those of a certain age that get "Grandfather rights"

 

[Gremlin]

Except those of a certain age that get "Grandfather rights"

Hence the word NOW in my post

 

[border_all]

Ok, but how reaction times compare between 20 yo and 93 yo drivers?? Let's not lie to ourselves - most folks don't even live that long....

Many of us don't want to but that's life I rode 10's of thousands of miles on motorcycles and reaction times don't necessarily make good drivers

How many times in 60mph areas have bikes overtaken a car while doing 90-100mph plus we used to call it white lining trouble is most folk are part asleep everywhere you go it's like mobile car parks little surprise so many collisions happen

 

[stupar]

There is equally an element of mental attitude in the elderly driver. They probably think in their mind that they are a perfectly good drivers but in practical terms it probably couldn't be further from the truth.

My old man who had pretty much drove all his life as a career ended up having to voluntarily revoke his license with the DVLA in his early 70's with much persuasion from family as even the early early onset of Parkinson's related dementia was going to be a threat to his life and those around him.

In his mind though, having driven cars, buses, lorries, forklifts etc all his life and being accredited by IAM and the police - his opinion was that he was an very experienced driver (which he was in his day) and was still capable of being safe behind the wheel. It dented his pride a lot when his license was eventually revoked because he felt a failure rather than a better person for doing what was right.

 

[boogie man]

IMO, overall driving standards are abysmal in the UK. The test is too easy to pass without a real appreciation of speed awareness, mechanical sympathy, or adverse weather conditions. As someone has already said, you don't even learn how to drive on a motorway!

The fact that a 17 year old could pass their test an jump into Bugatti Veyron (if money was no object) and would be free to travel at over 200MPH is ludicrous.

Conversely it's also worrying to think an elderly person could do the same.

Whilst it is totally unpractical to do so, I think everyone should have a driving assessment every 10 years up until the age of 60, then at 60 a medical/sight test and retest with assessments/medical every 5 years (I use 60 as a marker rather than a hard/fast rule. I know many 60 year olds that are probably as fit as a fiddle but I also know 40/50 year olds who struggle with mobility/eye sight).

If an assessment flags up any dangerous traits/issues with your driving then you would have a retest.

Also, there are people that take 5+ tests before they pass but still manage to get a license but IMO this is wrong too, if someone fails say 4 tests, they should be assessed as to whether they just get nervous because it's a test or there is a fundamental issue with concentration, perception, car control etc. We need to accept that some people can't do certain things, for example I can't draw/paint, no amount of tuition will turn me into an artist and I think there are some people that manage to fluke a test but really shouldn't be on the road......driving is a privilege rather than a right.

The driving test also needs changing, there should be compulsory elements such as driving on a motorway, adverse weather control (skidpan based) and the learning/test should be more based on Roadcraft/Advanced driving techniques.

I attended an advanced driver's course run by Essex Police when I was about 23, I had been driving around 5 years without incident and thought I'd got it sussed...... how wrong was I and tbh looking back at how I drove I'm probably luck I made it to the course

It wasn't a million years ago that I passed my test (1995) and my first car was a 1.4 Astra which was by no means fast but would go plenty fast enough to cause lots of damage. Most modern cars would out perform that old Astra I had giving new drivers even more opportunity to drive at a speed that isn't suitable for the road conditions or their ability, perhaps we should look at ways of restricting the cars that new drivers are allowed to drive (akin to how motorcycle licenses work) or take the "black box" insurance schemes a step further and limit the speed according to the road being driven (I know speed isn't the be all and end all but at least it's somewhere to start).

If you want to see really appalling driving, go to the US. I thought my ex wife was the worst driver I'd encountered but a lot of them out there make her look like Susie Wolff.

 

[boyfalldown]

I've given permission to my children to shoot me if I ever get like that.

I've given them money to shoot you anyway

 

[boyfalldown]

Really ? A 5 lane motorway is no different to a dual carraigeway

Very rare, I've only encountered 4 lane motorways as most are 3 lane, some in places are only 2 lanes and a 3 lane motorway is no different to a 3 lane dual carriageway

Isn't the only bit of 5 (or 6) lane motorway in the mainland UK the M25 between the M3 and Heathrow junctions (boring I know that, sorry) but having a specific test for about 15 miles of motorway seems OTT

 

[Gremlin]

Isn't the only bit of 5 (or 6) lane motorway in the mainland UK the M25 between the M3 and Heathrow junctions (boring I know that, sorry) but having a specific test for about 15 miles of motorway seems OTT

Quite possibly but plenty of 4 lane ones about.
If it's no different why stop learners driving on them anyway ?
There must be a reason behind it ?

 

[AJQS]

Quite possibly but plenty of 4 lane ones about.
If it's no different why stop learners driving on them anyway ?
There must be a reason behind it ?

High density of fast moving traffic - one wrong move by a learner and it's potentially curtains for a lot of people

 

[Major]

And here we have a stupid tie - learners are not allowed on motorway, not even during training with qualified instructor, but can use them as soon as they have pass certificate. That's what I did when I passed my MOD 2. On my 125 was going back

Border_all

Reaction times alone won't make a good driver. But often thanks to quick reaction to changing conditions you can come back home in one piece. I've seen my fair share too, ride bikes for just over 2 years, but done over 50k miles in all weather conditions.

 

[Cobra]

Hence the word NOW in my post

Yes but NOW means now, Its been in force 19 years.!
All drivers who passed a car test before 1 January 1997 retain their existing entitlement to tow trailers until their licence expires.

 

[Deleted sulking member 63079]

Too many stupid people, that's the problem.

Loads of people think that there's actually a "fast lane" on a motorway, and I know several people who genuinely believed it was legal to go faster than the speed limit in order to overtake someone..

 

[dejongj]

I've given them money to shoot you anyway

I've trained them well as they asked me how much they get not to shoot me. They are buying a horse now

 

[Gremlin]

High density of fast moving traffic - one wrong move by a learner and it's potentially curtains for a lot of people

So shouldn't that apply to dual carraigeways too if there is no difference

Yes but NOW means now, Its been in force 19 years.!
All drivers who passed a car test before 1 January 1997 retain their existing entitlement to tow trailers until their licence expires.

Sorry next time I'll try and remember to quote exact

 

[dejongj]

And here we have a stupid tie - learners are not allowed on motorway, not even during training with qualified instructor, but can use them as soon as they have pass certificate. That's what I did when I passed my MOD 2. On my 125 was going back

Border_all

Reaction times alone won't make a good driver. But often thanks to quick reaction to changing conditions you can come back home in one piece. I've seen my fair share too, ride bikes for just over 2 years, but done over 50k miles in all weather conditions.

Never got that. In Holland motorway driving is mandatory to pass your exam. And they find the shortest slip road for you to demonstrate to either merge or come to a halt and wait until there is a gap.

 

[Cobra]

Loads of people think that there's actually a "fast lane" on a motorway,

And also the fact that the near side lane ( or slow lane as they call it) is for lorry's only

 

[cambsno]

To be fair, driving standards are better here than in many countries in my limited experience!

I do a lot of driving - have done 60k+ a year but this year a more moderate 40k, so see lots of drivers. In my experience, elderly drivers are dangerous without them necessarily realising it. They will often drive far slower than they should, which leads to build up of traffic and people getting frustrated and maybe taking more risks. They often pull out when they shouldn't and sit there when there are huge gaps. Sure, each demographic and group is guilty at times, you will get white van man, sales reps and housewives all driving badly, but overall I find the elderly the worst. I will never let them out in front of me as I know they will probably sit there at 40mph on a 60 road. Thinking of all the times someone cuts across at a roundabout or pulls out when they shouldn't, most of the time for me they are 70+. Actually, I find lorry drivers worse so thank goodness you don't get many 80yo truckers!

 

[cambsno]

Too many stupid people, that's the problem.

Loads of people think that there's actually a "fast lane" on a motorway, and I know several people who genuinely believed it was legal to go faster than the speed limit in order to overtake someone..

It really winds me up when someone sits in the middle lane of a 3 lane road!

 

[viv1969]

Could be worse.
We could have a road like the G4 Beijing-Hong Kong-Macau Expressway.

Looks like a treat!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...-cars-left-stranded-on-motorway-in-China.html

 

[Gupster]

It really winds me up when someone sits in the middle lane of a 3 lane road!

Me too. It's part of the reason why motorway driving should form a port of the test. At a guess I would say at least 50% of drivers don't know how to use a motorway properly. Even just approaching a motorway from a slip road - how many times have I seen people thinking that driving at 40mph onto a road where most of the traffic is doing 65-80mph is safe?

 

[viv1969]

I don't think its practical to include it in the initial driving test.

What is already being spitballed by the DSA is retaining a basic test as is (to include a satnav section which is already being tested), but it would require further tuition and testing to allow new drivers to use motorways.

This would require new blue P plates to be displayed on cars of those who haven't had the test.

The test would not be retrospective.

Drivers would be able to drive indefinitely on the blue P plates.

There are plenty of people who through geography or preference, never drive on a motorway.

 

[Marc]

I know several people who genuinely believed it was legal to go faster than the speed limit in order to overtake someone..

I actually got asked the question at the end of my driving test (pre theory tests) "when is it legal to drive above the speed limit?". I was a bit stumped so I remembered a friend being signalled to go faster by the driver of the police car behind (on blues & 2s) as he was unable to get out of the way so I told him that. His reply? "or when overtaking" so maybe those people are right?

 

[dejongj]

I've given them money to shoot you anyway

I've trained them well as they asked me how much they get not to shoot me. They are buying a horse now

Thinking about that. Could be an interesting photo challenge for the next mega mega meet might even wear my Mr Motivator costume for it

I don't think its practical to include it in the initial driving test.

What is already being spitballed by the DSA is retaining a basic test as is (to include a satnav section which is already being tested), but it would require further tuition and testing to allow new drivers to use motorways.

This would require new blue P plates to be displayed on cars of those who haven't had the test.

The test would not be retrospective.

Drivers would be able to drive indefinitely on the blue P plates.

There are plenty of people who through geography or preference, never drive on a motorway.

Why is it impractical? Many other countries include it. I'm amazed today as much as when I learned 20 years ago that it isn't part of learning to drive and passing the exam in the UK.

As a general point I don't think actual driving standards are the issue. People and their righteous appealing attitudes is what make driving standards seem bad. People don't want to let anyone out, especially if they go faster or drive a German car or a big 4x4 or a small car or are old or are young or whatever. So many reasons and so little forgiving.

 

[viv1969]

I actually got asked the question at the end of my driving test (pre theory tests) "when is it legal to drive above the speed limit?". I was a bit stumped so I remembered a friend being signalled to go faster by the driver of the police car behind (on blues & 2s) as he was unable to get out of the way so I told him that. His reply? "or when overtaking" so maybe those people are right?

Not actually legal even then.

 

[Marc]

Not actually legal even then.

Wouldnt know, that's just the only example I could think of when he asked me. He didn't say I was wrong though.