Ebola Virus

gramps said:
Would be comforting (?) to see your qualified source of information :)
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As someone has said above, look at reputable sources or databases: the WHO, CDC, PubMed, etc.

The truth is that people don't "melt" with ebola. If they DO haemorrhage, and most don't, it's usually internal. And of the tiny proportion of those that have visible external haemorrhaging, it's usually subtle.

Disappointingly for newspaper salesmen, the large majority of ebola patients just look like they've got a bad flu.
 
ghoti said:
As someone has said above, look at reputable sources or databases: the WHO, CDC, PubMed, etc.

The truth is that people don't "melt" with ebola. If they DO haemorrhage, and most don't, it's usually internal. And of the tiny proportion of those that have visible external haemorrhaging, it's usually subtle.

Disappointingly for newspaper salesmen, the large majority of ebola patients just look like they've got a bad flu.
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Key facts
  • Ebola virus disease (EVD), formerly known as Ebola haemorrhagic fever, is a severe, often fatal illness in humans.
  • EVD outbreaks have a case fatality rate of up to 90%.
  • EVD outbreaks occur primarily in remote villages in Central and West Africa, near tropical rainforests.
  • The virus is transmitted to people from wild animals and spreads in the human population through human-to-human transmission.
  • Fruit bats of the Pteropodidae family are considered to be the natural host of the Ebola virus.
  • Severely ill patients require intensive supportive care. No licensed specific treatment or vaccine is available for use in people or animals.
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Try reading the article.
Table 1 is relevant to your interests.
 
gramps said:
Yep feel much better now :eek:
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oh silly me , i didnt realise you were posting from a "remote village in Central and West Africa, near tropical rainforest" - for some reason I thought you were in the UK where Ebola outbreaks are virtually unknown
 
ghoti said:
Try reading the article.
Table 1 is relevant to your interests.
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but why let the facts get in the way of a good panic ;)

in particular

Ebola then spreads in the community through human-to-human transmission, with infection resulting from direct contact (through broken skin or mucous membranes) with the blood, secretions, organs or other bodily fluids of infected people, and indirect contact with environments contaminated with such fluids. Burial ceremonies in which mourners have direct contact with the body of the deceased person can also play a role in the transmission of Ebola. Men who have recovered from the disease can still transmit the virus through their semen for up to 7 weeks after recovery from illness.
Health-care workers have frequently been infected while treating patients with suspected or confirmed EVD. This has occurred through close contact with patients when infection control precautions are not strictly practiced.
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and

To prevent the transmission of Ebola virus disease from one person to another it is necessary to take the following precautions:
  • Do not touch sick people who show symptoms of Ebola including for example fever, diarrhoea, vomiting, headaches and sometimes heavy bleeding.
  • Do not touch the dead bodies of suspected or confirmed Ebola patients.
  • Wash your hands with water and soap regularly
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http://www.who.int/csr/disease/ebola/faq-ebola/en/
It does not spread through coughs and sneezes (with the possible exception of very close contact sneezes etc as i mentioned earlier)


So in the worst case that an sufferer does travel to the uk there would still be no need for nationwide panic , so long as that person was quarantined and treated - the chance s of them infecting anyone other than close family members or sexual partners would be negligible - especially as in the UK the body would be forcibly cremated , and people would not'interact' with it during the funeral
 
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big soft moose said:
oh silly me , i didnt realise you were posting from a "remote village in Central and West Africa, near tropical rainforest" - for some reason I thought you were in the UK where Ebola outbreaks are virtually unknown
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Ah but we're talking about the risk of transmission in a global community, the centre of the infected area has an international airport.
 
gramps said:
Ah but we're talking about the risk of transmission in a global community, the centre of the infected area has an international airport.
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Ok there is a risk, but in a developed country like here with decent health care with people in good health, I cannot imagine even if it did spread, the mortaliity rate would be anywhere near 90%. With decent sanitisers, and hygine, its not a big issue.
 
ST4 said:
Ok there is a risk, but in a developed country like here with decent health care with people in good health, I cannot imagine even if it did spread, the mortaliity rate would be anywhere near 90%. With decent sanitisers, and hygine, its not a big issue.
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There is no known 'cure' ... why would mortality be less here than in West Africa ... not taking numbers, talking individual cases.
 
Ryanair will probably start showing the Stand as in flight entertainment and selling people £2 masks for £50...

TB was another killer that used to wipe out or disable entire families. I think we just forget what it used to be like.
 
ST4 said:
Health and diet of individuals, treatment and care etc
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If there is no known cure how would the NHS UK be better suited than Medecins san Frontieres?
 
srichards said:
TB was another killer that used to wipe out or disable entire families. I think we just forget what it used to be like.
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Indeed and allegedly the increase in TB in the UK is largely attributed to immigration from infected countries.
 
ST4 said:
Its not about cure, it is about fighting the symptoms. For that proper hydration, hosptials, nursing all must play a factor.

I'll ask another way, where would you rather fall ill with it, Blighted or West Africa?
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My feeling is that the Medecines san Frontieres staff in West Africa would probably have more experience and even possibly more dedication to deal with my needs?
 
gramps said:
My feeling is that the Medecines san Frontieres staff in West Africa would probably have more experience and even possibly more dedication to deal with my needs?
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You're having a laugh, right?
 
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gramps said:
If there is no known cure how would the NHS UK be better suited than Medecins san Frontieres?
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with no disrespect intended to MSF they are a small organisation and in many cases care has to be left to indigenous health proffesional who's quality is variable and who frequently practice poor disease control methods (such as reusing needles because they don't have enough to go round)

Also in several cases in the guinea outbreak MSF personel have been forced to stop treatment when set upon by mobs who believe they are causing the disease by bad juju

also in the UK we are better placed not to get infected in the first place because

- we don't have a tropical climate
- we don't have a native fruitbat population
- we don't generally eat bush meat or carrion we find lying arround
- quarantine/isolation in hospitals is properly enforced - you don't get familys 'rescuing' suffferers because "all they need to cure them is some condensed milk"
- the body of anyone who dies of ebola would be cremated in clinical conditions - not paraded through the streets with people hugging them
- we have propper sanitation, and availability of disinfectants
- we have communication tools - media, internet, phones etc to both let people know what they need to do, and also to report cases and get urgent medical care
- and lastly while there is no known cure the main supportive care is to keep sufferer propperly hydrated - this is considerably easier in a country with running water and saline drips etc than it is in a third world s*** hole where the nearest water could be a river of dubious cleanliness some miles away.
 
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ghoti said:
You're having a laugh, right?
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No, not at all ... tell me what experience the UK has in dealing with ebola?
These people dedicate their time free of charge ... what greater motivation do you see in the UK?
 
gramps said:
Ah but we're talking about the risk of transmission in a global community, the centre of the infected area has an international airport.
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indeed - but how many of the population arround it have the money to afford an air fare ? ( lets face it if you live in a mud hut and eat bush meat the chances are good you don't regularly pop over to europe on sleazy jet )
 
big soft moose said:
with no disrespect intended to MSF they are a small organisation and in many cases care has to be left to indigenous health proffesional who's quality is variable and who frequently practice poor disease control methods (such as reusing needles because they don't have enough to go round)

Also in several cases in the guinea outbreak MSF personel have been forced to stop treatment when set upon by mobs who believe they are causing the disease by bad juju

also in the UK we are better placed not to get infected in the first place because

- we don't have a tropical climate
- we don't have a native fruitbat population
- we don't generally eat bush meat or carrion we find lying arround
- quarantine/isolation in hospitals is properly enforced - you don't get familys 'rescuing' suffferers because "all they need to cure them is some condensed milk"
- the body of anyone who dies of ebola would be cremated in clinical conditions - not paraded through the streets with people hugging them
- we have propper sanitation, and availability of disinfectants
- we have communication tools - media, internet, phones etc to both let people know what they need to do, and also to report cases and get urgent medical care
- and lastly while there is no known cure the main supportive care is to keep sufferer propperly hydrated - this is considerably easier in a country with running water and saline drips etc than it is in a third world s*** hole where the nearest water could be a river of dubious cleanliness some miles away.
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Little of that matters if it's brought into the country like TB has been ... we're not talking about ebola starting here, we're talking about it being brought in.
 
big soft moose said:
indeed - but how many of the population arround it have the money to afford an air fare ? ( lets face it if you live in a mud hut and eat bush meat the chances are good you don't regularly pop over to europe on sleazy jet )
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You don't think people in West Africa travel?
 
gramps said:
No, not at all ... tell me what experience the UK has in dealing with ebola?
These people dedicate their time free of charge ... what greater motivation do you see in the UK?
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Where do you think MSF medics come from ?

As i said i'm not knocking them - they do great work , but the main expertise in treating ebola and controlling an outbreak comes from the WHO (who are based in berne i think but work worldwide) and the CDC in Alanta - the NHS would have easy access to these resources should it become necessary
 
With somebody now trying to win a debate by claiming they'd rather be treated in an ad-hoc treatment camp in rural western Africa than in an NHS hospital in the UK this thread has jumped the shark.
Can't take it seriously any more I'm afraid.

Sides are splitting with laughter here. I better catch a flight to Sierra Leone to get them stitched up by MSF.
 
Nikon_Nick said:
...we will die from [PLEASE DON'T TRY TO BYPASS THE SWEAR FILTER]?!? :eek:
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If they are stuffed in your mouth and your nose is being pinched i would say death by [PLEASE DON'T TRY TO BYPASS THE SWEAR FILTER] is quite possible :wacky:
 
gramps said:
Little of that matters if it's brought into the country like TB has been ... we're not talking about ebola starting here, we're talking about it being brought in.
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the first two points i mentioned might not but the rest relate to control of the disease and would thus be highly relevant

we don't generally eat bush meat or carrion we find lying arround
- quarantine/isolation in hospitals is properly enforced - you don't get familys 'rescuing' suffferers because "all they need to cure them is some condensed milk"
- the body of anyone who dies of ebola would be cremated in clinical conditions - not paraded through the streets with people hugging them
- we have propper sanitation, and availability of disinfectants
- we have communication tools - media, internet, phones etc to both let people know what they need to do, and also to report cases and get urgent medical care
- and lastly while there is no known cure the main supportive care is to keep sufferer propperly hydrated - this is considerably easier in a country with running water and saline drips etc than it is in a third world s*** hole where the nearest water could be a river of dubious cleanliness some miles away
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also TB hasn't been 'brought in' its always existed here - we used to have it under control but the reason it is now a problem is a) antibiotic restance developing as a result of people being f***wits, and b) children not getting imunised as a result of their parents being f***wits - this could be an evolutionary thing with being with f***wittage gradually breeding out
 
ghoti said:
With somebody now trying to win a debate by claiming they'd rather be treated in an ad-hoc treatment camp in rural western Africa than in an NHS hospital in the UK this thread has jumped the shark.
Can't take it seriously any more I'm afraid.

Sides are splitting with laughter here. I better catch a flight to Sierra Leone to get them stitched up by MSF.
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Indeed - some people just want to panic - fine let them - but anyone with a serious interest ought to be looking at and reading the WHO and CDC information , not listening to scaremongering ruibbish
 
gramps said:
You don't think people in West Africa travel?
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I don't think the typical profile ebola sufferer (from a rural village close to a rainforest area in west africa) travels by plane on a regular basis. - the one who is known to have traveled from liberia to nigeria.
 
crofter said:
All these facts won't stop the numpties heading for the doctors as soon as they get a runny nose, "Doc, I've got a touch of Ebola"
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not to mention that the flu/manflu season is fast approaching - and the early symptoms of ebola look a bit like flu. - so the main hazrd to the NHS is getting overwhelmede by hypochondriacs
 
ghoti said:
With somebody now trying to win a debate by claiming they'd rather be treated in an ad-hoc treatment camp in rural western Africa than in an NHS hospital in the UK this thread has jumped the shark.
Can't take it seriously any more I'm afraid.

Sides are splitting with laughter here. I better catch a flight to Sierra Leone to get them stitched up by MSF.
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When argument fails ..... :rolleyes:
 
As things stand you have a far higher chance of contracting and dying from AIDS or from influenza, or from MSRA (and associated bugs). You also have a far higher chance of dying from heart disease, stroke, and cancer , or from dying in a car accident. In risk assesment terms Ebola is barely worth considering
 
big soft moose said:
Nope

I got all that from scientific litterature linked from the WHO website. I'm prepared to bet that the World Health Organisation know more about the disease and its risks than you do
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I wasn't arguing the information in your posts, I just wondered if you knew any of that before or wither you researched it. it's been a while since I worked as a virologist so I've mostly forgotten everything but I'm probably the only person on this board to have been in a BLS4 lab where Ebola has to be worked on and worked extensively in a BLS3 lab.
 
big soft moose said:
also TB hasn't been 'brought in' its always existed here - we used to have it under control but the reason it is now a problem is a) antibiotic restance developing as a result of people being f***wits, and b) children not getting imunised as a result of their parents being f***wits - this could be an evolutionary thing with being with f***wittage gradually breeding out
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the BCG we got as kids has something like between 30-80% effectiveness. in fact getting the BCG can increase the risk of getting full blown TB as the effect we see in the lungs is a result of the immune response. of course this isn't helped by multi drug resistant strains and the aids epidemic. it's not even part of the routine vaccinations anymore
 
POAH said:
I wasn't arguing the information in your posts, I just wondered if you knew any of that before or wither you researched it. it's been a while since I worked as a virologist so I've mostly forgotten everything but I'm probably the only person on this board to have been in a BLS4 lab where Ebola has to be worked on and worked extensively in a BLS3 lab.
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fairy muff - i knew a little of it before from reading the who website after i read the hotzone and thought 'nah b*****ks' - but i researched most of it from credible sources after seeing the Mirror front page yesterday to reassure myself that they were scaremongering again
 
ST4 said:
I've never had a cold in my life but lots of flu cases. If it's really bad it's probably Ebola...
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LOL - chances are you had MWCHD (man with cold hypochondriac disorder) , a really serious case can mutate into MWCWTHDD (man with cold who thinks he's dying disorder) ;)

I used to be one of those guys who's always "oh I've got flu" every time i got a sniffle - right up to 2004 when i actually got influenza :runaway: - i can confidently say that manflu doesnt come close to the real thing.
 
gramps said:
My feeling is that the Medecines san Frontieres staff in West Africa would probably have more experience and even possibly more dedication to deal with my needs?
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They probably do but do they have a reliable source of clean water? Do they have access to the pharmacopeia that the NHS have? Experience and dedication are all very well but need some material back up to be of any real use.
 
gramps said:
No, not at all ... tell me what experience the UK has in dealing with ebola?
These people dedicate their time free of charge ... what greater motivation do you see in the UK?
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Just because it's free doesn't make it better than healthcare that UK PLC pour billions into.

We've got proper hospitals, more doctors, nurses, proper quarantine, sanitisation etc.

I'm confident if I caught Ebola here and I got hospitalised given I'm in good health and not one foot in the grave I'd live and recover. I'm not so sure about the treatment, however passionate it would be, would be that good out in the wilds of Sierra Leone.
 
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