eBay chancer - what to do?

TGphoto

TGphoto

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Tom
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Hi,

Just purchased a lens off someone on eBay sold in ‘as new’ condition, with no issues mentioned at all even when I messaged him and asked. Not cheap (around £500). All looked good, UK purchased, hardly used etc.

Then it arrived and I opened it and immediately noticed what you can see in the attached image (looks like fungus to me). This is inside the lens element, it’s all over.

IMG_8353.jpg

I emailed him and requested a return, he rejected and said it’s fine and never caused him any problems, then told me his listing said ‘returns not accepted’. I directed him to the eBay money back guarantee, he then agreed that I could return it but he wouldn’t pay for the postage, so I sent him this screenshot that eBay sent to me.

IMG_8363.jpg

He has now responded with this:

IMG_8364.jpg

What should I do next?

He also mentioned ‘by the way you need to return it in the exact condition I sent it in’. I am sensing he might try to say it’s not in the same condition. I emailed him to say I will be taking photos of the lens and a video boxing it up. Are there any other precautions I should take?

Thanks
 
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Raise a return via eBay, that should enable you to print off a courier label.

I had to do this with some studio lights.

Long winded that was. I sent them back and he refused to take delivery of them. As he hadn't "received" them eBay would not refund me until they'd been delivered.

Best of luck.
 
This is why I rarely look to ebay for lenses, too many chancers on there looking to offload duds. That is definitely fungus and it'll only get worse. Send the images to ebay too, so you have them on record if he tries to pull a fast one and claim the lens wasn't like that when delivered. Hope you get it sorted.
 
Forget ebay. Open a dispute with PayPal. Sure, you will have to pay for postage but as long as you have proof of shipping with a tracking number it will be refunded, even if the sellers tries it on.
 
First inform him under ebay's policy if an item is not as described the seller will have to bear the return postage and issue a full refund.
You can attach pictures with your ebay case when you open one. Attach the pictures and say the lens is NOT in 'as new' condition because it has fungus which clearly means its NOT 'as new' since no manufacturer ships new lenses with fungus!! As to the point whether it affects images or not is immaterial as the lens has been misold and not as described (don't go down arguing if it will impact quality or not because it won't fetch you anything and will simply waste time with meaningless link to silly online tests).
Also mention that fungus is a damage to the optics of the lens which reduces both the cost of the lens and also means the lens is not in 'as new' condition.

Good luck, you will probably get your money back but it may take a while :(

edit:
if he tried to claim the lens was not sent to you in that condition, there is NO WAY in hell any one can get that much fungus on the lens in a few hours or a day (assuming you opened the case quickly)
 
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I know little about the bay and it's processes but hopefully you kept screenshots of the offer and description.

Next, is the seller a UK based business seller or private person? The reason I ask is if a business is the sale covered by UK sale of goods act..........as it looks like it was mis-represented.

IMO simple view he is taking you for a ride, what is his history........you did check before hitting buy didn't you.

I hope you can resolve it all!

FWIW I would not want a fungus contaminated lens anywhere near my clean kit :(
 
Just found the original advert.

Hate to say it but when there's loads of photos of the side of a lens but not of the front or rear elements I'd have been suspicious.

Hope it works out for you Tom.
 
Box Brownie said:
I know little about the bay and it's processes but hopefully you kept screenshots of the offer and description.

Next, is the seller a UK based business seller or private person? The reason I ask is if a business is the sale covered by UK sale of goods act..........as it looks like it was mis-represented.

IMO simple view he is taking you for a ride, what is his history........you did check before hitting buy didn't you.

I hope you can resolve it all!

FWIW I would not want a fungus contaminated lens anywhere near my clean kit :(
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He's only sold 1 item before this lens, his feedback is for being a buyer.
 
GreenNinja67 said:
He's only sold 1 item before this lens, his feedback is for being a buyer.
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Cynic mode ~ I wonder if this lens was one bought on the bay and is offloading it.......so do any of his buyer feedback mention this lens???
 
found the original listing using the item number, yeah definitely missold and inaccurate description. get an ebay case going ASAP
 
Looks like he bought this lens and a Nikon D800 from a Spanish auction site but can't prove it. The item is no longer viewable.

Google his ebay ID.
 
I can't tell properly since I use ebay on my laptop but do it via. official ebay return process using their resolution centre and not via messages. Send it via. the postage label that ebay gives you also. Don't spend another penny on this person.

otherwise he could end up trying not to reimburse your postage or for your lens. Also if he really insists on RMSD call ebay customer service (or get them to call you) and make sure you are covered in case he tries to pull a fast one. ebay customer service is generally quite responsive.
 
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nandbytes said:
I can't tell properly since I use ebay on my laptop but do it via. official ebay return process using their resolution centre and not via messages. Send it via. the postage label that ebay gives you also. Don't spend another penny on this person.

otherwise he could end up trying not to reimburse your postage or for your lens. Also if he really insists on RMSD call ebay customer service (or get them to call you) and make sure you are covered in case he tries to pull a fast one. ebay customer service is generally quite responsive.
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Problem is, he refused to send a postage label so (you can see this in the original post for reference) eBay said ‘the seller is responsible for return postage costs, so contact them to arrange return postage’.
 
Tom Green said:
Problem is, he refused to send a postage label so (you can see this in the original post for reference) eBay said ‘the seller is responsible for return postage costs, so contact them to arrange return postage’.
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I don’t get that at all. eBay provide the shipping label and bill the seller later.
 
Tom Green said:
Problem is, he refused to send a postage label so (you can see this in the original post for reference) eBay said ‘the seller is responsible for return postage costs, so contact them to arrange return postage’.
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Do you have a returns case open with the seller via. the ebay resolution centre and has he accepted the return officially on ebay?
if not get this done first. Always go through official channels otherwise you are not protected.

Also as said above ebay will provide you the shipping label and bill the seller if you went through the ebay resolution centre.
 
nandbytes said:
FYI: its not an infectious disease :D
it won't spread to your other lenses. Also an hour or two of sunlight would kill them all :p
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So such fungus does not produce spores to reproduce? Granted it would need the right conditions to grow but if spores do spread surely they can lodge in the mirror box and eventually other lenses?

The spread in the OP lens looks quite marked if killed off by sunlight treatment unlike the odd scuff/scratch would such damage give rise to some low level degradation of the images especially at higher f numbers???
 
Tom Green said:
Problem is, he refused to send a postage label so (you can see this in the original post for reference) eBay said ‘the seller is responsible for return postage costs, so contact them to arrange return postage’.
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I'd take that as a given he's not going to reimburse you.

When someone opens up a return eBay gives the seller options about how to handle it, a decent seller will just take the eBay generated label payment as it's cheaper than most other shipment methods, only a bad one will try and wriggle out of it.

I would contact eBay support and ask them what you should do if you care about the postage fee but there's a few gotcha's to pay attention to, you have to make sure you choose the correct return reason (item not as described in this case) otherwise that can limit your options.
 
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ecoleman said:
I don’t get that at all. eBay provide the shipping label and bill the seller later.
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A seller can choose not to send one or send their own one, it's meant to give flexibility for the seller but can be abused.

If he refuses to send a label I think eBay might rule in the buyers favour but I can't recall the last time I've had to deal with a seller stupid enough to try and wriggle out of it.
 
ecoleman said:
Forget ebay. Open a dispute with PayPal. Sure, you will have to pay for postage but as long as you have proof of shipping with a tracking number it will be refunded, even if the sellers tries it on.
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Pretty sure that isn't possible, if disputing an eBay transaction Paypal will simply transfer you to the eBay resolution process, which is pretty good, it just takes a while (8 days if the seller doesn't play ball iirc).
 
Box Brownie said:
So such fungus does not produce spores to reproduce? Granted it would need the right conditions to grow but if spores do spread surely they can lodge in the mirror box and eventually other lenses?

The spread in the OP lens looks quite marked if killed off by sunlight treatment unlike the odd scuff/scratch would such damage give rise to some low level degradation of the images especially at higher f numbers???
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I am not commenting on how optics would be affected by fungus.

Fungus spores are everywhere including you "clean lenses" and given they right conditions they'll grow. So I wouldn't worry about probably dead fungus spreading, I'd worry more about not letting it develop in your clean lenses
 
nandbytes said:
Do you have a returns case open with the seller via. the ebay resolution centre and has he accepted the return officially on ebay?
if not get this done first. Always go through official channels otherwise you are not protected.

Also as said above ebay will provide you the shipping label and bill the seller if you went through the ebay resolution centre.
Click to expand...

Yeah I opened it about 2 hours after picking the lens up. Opened it under 'not as described'. Attached 3 images to it as well.

sent him this message originally:

Hi,

I have picked up the lens about a hour ago. A quick look at the lens and it looks good from the outside, however shined a torch on it and I am not happy unfortunately. The inside of the front element is full of a webbing type pattern, personally I think it is probably fungus. Strange with a lens of this age but unfortunately, I will never be letting that lens touch my camera. Please could you advise what you would like to do.

Thanks,

Tom

He then tried saying it was fine and working properly etc so I couldn't return it so I advised him to look at the ebay money back guarantee.
 
As mentioned above seller can refuse to pick up an item and eBay won't process the refund in the meantime. I have had this issue before and basically you need to wait something like 10-14 days to prove seller is purposefully not picking up the item and that it's just sitting in the post office. At which point eBay will refund your money. It took me about a month get my refund this way. It was only £70-80 iirc so wasn't a big deal but for £500 it's rather long.

Basically I have always managed to get my money back from bad sellers it's all just a matter of time and how many games they want to play. But always keep it to official channels.
 
nandbytes said:
FYI: its not an infectious disease :D
it won't spread to your other lenses. Also an hour or two of sunlight would kill them all :p
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I don't know where you find this nonsense, but sunlight through a lens will NOT kill fungus that is already actively spreading. It can be sorted before it gets too bad but this almost always involves disassembly of the lens to begin.
 
Bit of a transcript:

Jun 10
The seller approved your request

Jun 10
The seller sent you a message
Message
I was not aware of the marks you are talking about. As I said this lens has not been in used and it has been stored. You can post it back at your own expense. I will get a refund as soon as I receive the lens. Beware the lens has to come back to me in the exact condition as I posted it.


Jun 10
You sent a message
Message
The marks should NOT be there at all. That is a clear issue with the lens, whether it works or not doesn't matter, this lens has an issue that you didn't disclose to me when I asked you about it. I will not be putting this lens on my camera, I can assure you of that. You described it 'as good as new' - this certainly isn't. I suggest that you make yourself familiar with ebays 'Money back guarantee', you need to sort out a refund as you cannot advertise defective items as working perfectly, this should have been disclosed and if it was, there is no way I would have purchased it.


Jun 10
The seller sent you a message
Message
Those marks will not affect the performance of the lens at all. The lens was tested before posting and is in good working order.


Jun 10
You created a return
Reason for return
Doesn't work or defective

Comments
Hi, I have picked up the lens about a hour ago. A quick look at the lens and it looks good from the outside, however shined a torch on it and I am not happy unfortunately. The inside of the front element is full of a webbing type pattern, personally I think it is probably fungus. Strange with a lens of this age but unfortunately, I will never be letting that lens touch my camera. Please could you advise what you would like to do. Thanks, Tom
 
Don't send him the original postage receipt if you send it back. Email a picture of it. Otherwise you have no proof of postage if he doesn't pay up.
 
Cagey75 said:
I don't know where you find this nonsense, but sunlight through a lens will NOT kill fungus that is already actively spreading. It can be sorted before it gets too bad but this almost always involves disassembly of the lens to begin.
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My point was it won't spread to other lenses and that's not nonsense.
By the sunlight comment I meant regularly taking it out i.e. using it should prevent any new fungus growth which is also not nonsense.

The original point of discussion was about fungus spreading to "clean" lenses not fixing already mouldy lenses.
I didn't mean to advise anyone on cleaning lens with fungus or dealing with it once it's prominent in the lens.
 
Erty said:
Don't send him the original postage receipt if you send it back. Email a picture of it. Otherwise you have no proof of postage if he doesn't pay up.
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I think he wants the original receipt for the lens back not the postage receipt.
 
Hopefully it'll go ok Tom but insist that eBay send you the postage label.

My return of the lights was a nightmare. The seller refused to accept the delivery and it sat in the sorting office waiting for him to pick it up.

Using a bit of nous and detective work (Facebook and other social media platforms) I found out where he worked, advised the post office to expect a phone call from me once I ascertained he was physically at his place of work and to immediately deliver the parcel. I kept eBay appraised of the situation all the way along (eBay actually called the Swindon sorting office to validate my request).
I phoned the seller's work, asked speak to him (he actually answered) and phoned the sorting office and got them to deliver the parcel to his workplace

Long drawn out business.

Never again.
 
Erty said:
Don't send him the original postage receipt if you send it back. Email a picture of it. Otherwise you have no proof of postage if he doesn't pay up.
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That's a mistake, eBay/PayPal can lock the original funds (sale price + shipping) and return them to the buyer but they can't do that with return shipping as there wasn't a transaction for it.

If you trust the seller, sure but based on this persons responses I don't think you'll send a return shipping refund.

Again I'd urge the buyer to contact eBay and get their advice on what to do with the seller refuses to provide return postage.
 
GreenNinja67 said:
My return of the lights was a nightmare. The seller refused to accept the delivery and it sat in the sorting office waiting for him to pick it up.
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That's different from my experience, I'd ordered some flash heads, they showed up with a bunch of different faults (sync port not working on one, IR sensor not working on another, crushed mount etc, you get the idea), got the return going, sent it back and they refused to accept it. This was before their automatic return label feature so I think I paid for return shipping.

They were just sitting in the local collection office but the seller refused to collect, eBay saw that and just processed my refund in full. The seller didn't want anything to do with them though so the courier I used returned them to me and they've been sitting in a box ever since as I'm not paying return postage twice but never felt comfortable selling/using them as I never paid for them.

As a general rule eBay tends to favour buyers over sellers.
 
Tom Green said:
Bit of a transcript:

Jun 10
The seller approved your request

Jun 10
The seller sent you a message
Message
I was not aware of the marks you are talking about. As I said this lens has not been in used and it has been stored. You can post it back at your own expense. I will get a refund as soon as I receive the lens. Beware the lens has to come back to me in the exact condition as I posted it.


Jun 10
You sent a message
Message
The marks should NOT be there at all. That is a clear issue with the lens, whether it works or not doesn't matter, this lens has an issue that you didn't disclose to me when I asked you about it. I will not be putting this lens on my camera, I can assure you of that. You described it 'as good as new' - this certainly isn't. I suggest that you make yourself familiar with ebays 'Money back guarantee', you need to sort out a refund as you cannot advertise defective items as working perfectly, this should have been disclosed and if it was, there is no way I would have purchased it.


Jun 10
The seller sent you a message
Message
Those marks will not affect the performance of the lens at all. The lens was tested before posting and is in good working order.


Jun 10
You created a return
Reason for return
Doesn't work or defective

Comments
Hi, I have picked up the lens about a hour ago. A quick look at the lens and it looks good from the outside, however shined a torch on it and I am not happy unfortunately. The inside of the front element is full of a webbing type pattern, personally I think it is probably fungus. Strange with a lens of this age but unfortunately, I will never be letting that lens touch my camera. Please could you advise what you would like to do. Thanks, Tom
Click to expand...

It reads like he could reject your return (so to speak) because the lens functions i.e. not defective! The issue in IMO one of merchantability i.e. it has an issue that if you knew of it you would not have bought it!!!
 
simonbarker said:
That's different from my experience, I'd ordered some flash heads, they showed up with a bunch of different faults (sync port not working on one, IR sensor not working on another, crushed mount etc, you get the idea), got the return going, sent it back and they refused to accept it. This was before their automatic return label feature so I think I paid for return shipping.

They were just sitting in the local collection office but the seller refused to collect, eBay saw that and just processed my refund in full. The seller didn't want anything to do with them though so the courier I used returned them to me and they've been sitting in a box ever since as I'm not paying return postage twice but never felt comfortable selling/using them as I never paid for them.

As a general rule eBay tends to favour buyers over sellers.
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Sounds very much like the faults mine had. They weren't interfit 150's were they from a seller in Swindon?
 
Erty said:
Don't send him the original postage receipt if you send it back. Email a picture of it. Otherwise you have no proof of postage if he doesn't pay up.
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You only add the tracking details into the eBay dispute, no need to send the seller any form of postage receipt.


Box Brownie said:
It reads like he could reject your return (so to speak) because the lens functions i.e. not defective! The issue in IMO one of merchantability i.e. it has an issue that if you knew of it you would not have bought it!!!
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@Tom Green says he opened a SNAD dispute (significantly not as described) it's nothing to do with whether the item is defective or not, lens mould would definitely apply as SNAD.
 
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So ebay have just told me that if I send via RMSD I am not covered by them and the seller could scam me.

They told me to use their label only basically, so now I have to try and persuade him to send me a label.
 
Tom Green said:
So ebay have just told me that if I send via RMSD I am not covered by them and the seller could scam me.

They told me to use their label only basically, so now I have to try and persuade him to send me a label.
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From my unfortunate experienced on ebay if I remember correctly :

When he accepts the return it should automatically make a return label at the cost of the seller ( 48hour tracked that is businesses only normally - you and me cant buy it in the post office )
The seller does not make a label and send it to you manually, in my experience its a very automated process.
Once they sign for it in the door, ebay know about it and if they don't refund you then ebay will refund you and the seller will be in big trouble with ebay in some circumstances.
Basically the seller is not favoured by ebay, you are. They will side with you the buyer and the seller can mess about all they want but I suspect they may know the system and are trying to make you do a mistake by sending it back yourself etc.
 
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