E.Scooters

[Cobra]

Only if they also keep their licence, and have insurance, and their vehicle has a valid MOT.

More nit picking, you know what I meant.

I believe 85% of drivers admit to speeding.

Absolute testicles.
No one I know has ever been asked, so the straw poll has no meaning.

Even this has no meaning, however, the best I could come up with was the research highlighted that nearly one in five of all UK drivers had admitted to speeding,
And the worst was 1/3rd


80% ? I'm guessing math was never your strong point?

 

[Cobra]

Just to add, I never deleted any posts this was done by the poster themselves.

 

[Pound Coin]

More nit picking, you know what I meant.



Absolute testicles.
No one I know has ever been asked, so the straw poll has no meaning.

Even this has no meaning, however, the best I could come up with was the research highlighted that nearly one in five of all UK drivers had admitted to speeding,
And the worst was 1/3rd


80% ? I'm guessing math was never your strong point?

80%? You mean 4 in 5?

Anyway - a large number of drivers break the speed limit, that is a fact.

Earlier you said this:

Where as the afore mentioned just ride rough shod through the laws, having no insurance, no road tax ( call it what you will)
or any form of competency certificate to prove they are capable of sticking to the laws of the road.

One of the problems with issues like this is the tribalism. Which deflects from the actual problem, which is a lack of respect for the law, by all sides.

 

[Cobra]

You mean 4 in 5?

I don't mean anything I was reacting to your 80% which as above is testicles.

Anyway - a large number of drivers break the speed limit, that is a fact.

But you never posted FACT in capitals so it can't be true.
It's strange the amount of posts I see, on other forums, people complaining about drivers doing 40 or less in a 60.
But not quite so much of a pain doing that speed in a 70, as generally they are passable.

 

[Pound Coin]

Doing 40 everywhere is a particular behaviour that Anti-Tank missiles were invented for.

 

[Pound Coin]

I don't mean anything I was reacting to your 80% which as above is testicles.

It comes from an RAC thingie from a while ago.

I'd imagine if you asked drivers on this forum (anonymously, without biometric testing) if they broke speed limits, you'd get a figure close to those testicles.

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

Indeed "Bridges" aka previously banned member, has been right to delete most of his posts as they were clearly blatant trolling.

That explains some things on another thread. Thank you.

 

[Cobra]

It comes from an RAC thingie from a while ago.

Talking of the RAC
The results of the 2022 RAC Report On Motoring reveal that 48 per cent of respondents have admitted to exceeding the national speed limit
Quite a way off 80%

Target polls are always a joke IMO.
Ask a room full of people on a speed awareness course, and I bet it would be close to 100% that would admit they had been speeding.
Ask a room full of Nuns the same question and I bet it would be less than 5%.

 

[Pound Coin]

Talking of the RAC
The results of the 2022 RAC Report On Motoring reveal that 48 per cent of respondents have admitted to exceeding the national speed limit
Quite a way off 80%

That's only a year ago.

I said a while ago.

 

[Cobra]

That's only a year ago.

I said a while ago.

Updated figures trump "awhile ago"

 

[Pound Coin]

So, aside from arguing about figures, at least half of drivers drive roughshod over the laws.

Demonise all road users, not just the ones that don't have to pay 'road tax'.
Alternatively, don't demonise.

 

[Cobra]

As you are so keen on figures, from the net .."with nearly one-third of all car accidents attributed to speeding" ....

Maybe they should be concentrating a bit more on the other 2/3rd?

 

[Pound Coin]

As you are so keen on figures, from the net .."with nearly one-third of all car accidents attributed to speeding" ....

Maybe they should be concentrating a bit more on the other 2/3rd?

It is entirely possible that speeding represents the largest individual factor. In which case highlighting it is quite sensible.

 

[Cobra]

It is entirely possible that speeding represents the largest individual factor.

And entirely not.

I have sandwiches for lunch, would you like a bite..
Oh hang on it seems you already have.

 

[Cobra]

This is the first death I've heard of regarding scooters.
Lets hope there are lessons learned from this tragedy.


The family of a 'kind and bubbly' 21-year-old MK woman who died after being hit by a black Audi A3 car while traveling on a Voi e-scooter has paid tribute to her.
An inquest into the tragic death of Antonia-Marie Nanyonjo took place this morning (Thursday).


The coroner heard how Antonia was riding a Voi e-scooter towards in Northampton, where she worked as a cardiac physiologist at the town’s hospital, before she ran a red light at a pedestrian crossing at 6.15pm on December 6, 2021.

 

[nog]

This is the first death I've heard of regarding scooters.
Lets hope there are lessons learned from this tragedy.


The family of a 'kind and bubbly' 21-year-old MK woman who died after being hit by a black Audi A3 car while traveling on a Voi e-scooter has paid tribute to her.
An inquest into the tragic death of Antonia-Marie Nanyonjo took place this morning (Thursday).


The coroner heard how Antonia was riding a Voi e-scooter towards in Northampton, where she worked as a cardiac physiologist at the town’s hospital, before she ran a red light at a pedestrian crossing at 6.15pm on December 6, 2021.

Reported road casualties Great Britain: e-Scooter factsheet 2022

www.gov.uk

12 killed last year

2 lads from South Wales killed this year, police had been/were following them. Riots and protests as some blamed the police for following them. Police driver involved faces criminal investigation

Officer who drove behind Ely crash death teens faces criminal investigation

The officer has been told they are being criminally investigated for dangerous driving. Kyrees Sullivan and Harvey Evans both died in the crash

www.walesonline.co.uk

 

[Cobra]

Reported road casualties Great Britain: e-Scooter factsheet 2022

www.gov.uk

12 killed last year

2 lads from South Wales killed this year, police had been/were following them. Riots and protests as some blamed the police for following them. Police driver involved faces criminal investigation

Officer who drove behind Ely crash death teens faces criminal investigation

The officer has been told they are being criminally investigated for dangerous driving. Kyrees Sullivan and Harvey Evans both died in the crash

www.walesonline.co.uk

Tragic
As I understand it, the police are automatically suspected as at fault in any cases like this,
as they are deemed to be expert drivers ( that's a whole new subject) as told to me by an ex copper mate.
Whether that is true or not, I don't know, I just have his word on that.

 

[JohnC6]

This is the first death I've heard of regarding scooters.
Lets hope there are lessons learned from this tragedy.


The family of a 'kind and bubbly' 21-year-old MK woman who died after being hit by a black Audi A3 car while traveling on a Voi e-scooter has paid tribute to her.
An inquest into the tragic death of Antonia-Marie Nanyonjo took place this morning (Thursday).


The coroner heard how Antonia was riding a Voi e-scooter towards in Northampton, where she worked as a cardiac physiologist at the town’s hospital, before she ran a red light at a pedestrian crossing at 6.15pm on December 6, 2021.

I wonder if she died from a head injury ? I think the regulations should have included the wearing of a safety helmet, like the ones worn by cyclists but,I suppose it might deter those who just use them occasionally...ie the railway station to home or to pick one up from near home to visit a friend who has a bay nearby. The chap from Voi who I spoke to last week said they have 25 at the railway station. There's only 5 across the road now.

As an aside. The article states that she "ran a red light". I heard that expression used during a news bulletin on LBC this week.I think it was LBC. As you know, it's an American expression. Infact, look at the spelling of "travelling..it's "traveling"..one 'l'..also US english. Was that report in your local paper ?

 

[Cobra]

Was that report in your local paper ?

As per my post #55 before she ran a red light

I can't remember the cause of death I'll see if I can find it.

 

[Pound Coin]

a cycling “safety helmet” is very different from a motorcycle one. The whole helmet discussion is an interesting one - if you are trying to get a low environmental impact method of transport going, then helmets don’t help because they reduce the opportunity for casual use. You aren’t going to hop on a hire scooter if you have to put a helmet with someone else’s hair grease and sweat on.

The effort should be on educating all road users as to how collisions occur and how to prevent them and make them less damaging if they do occur.

Pay attention
Except the unexpected
Slow down

 

[JohnC6]

As per my post #55 before she ran a red light

I can't remember the cause of death I'll see if I can find it.

Ok..thanks.

It doesn't explain how it happened. Quote. "She ran a red light and was hit by an Audi A3" . How come ? A rhetorical questioin as you won't know any more than anyone else reading it. Re the US english. Maybe the paper has an American reporter on their staff.

 

[JohnC6]

a cycling “safety helmet” is very different from a motorcycle one. The whole helmet discussion is an interesting one - if you are trying to get a low environmental impact method of transport going, then helmets don’t help because they reduce the opportunity for casual use. You aren’t going to hop on a hire scooter if you have to put a helmet with someone else’s hair grease and sweat on.

The effort should be on educating all road users as to how collisions occur and how to prevent them and make them less damaging if they do occur.

Pay attention
Except the unexpected
Slow down

Re the helmet. The reason I said it might deter those who use the scooters only occasionally was that they'd have to buy one. I wasn't meaning it comes with the scooter..as you say.. likely full of hair, sweat and grease ..Yuk..

I assume if a scooter rider wears a helmet..the cyclists' type, it could be the difference between a sore head and a fatal injury. I didn't mean the mortorcycle helmet which is a hefty item.

 

[Pound Coin]

Re the helmet. The reason I said it might deter those who use the scooters only occasionally was that they'd have to buy one. I wasn't meaning it comes with the scooter..as you say.. likely full of hair, sweat and grease ..Yuk..

I assume if a scooter rider wears a helmet..the cyclists' type, it could be the difference between a sore head and a fatal injury. I didn't mean the mortorcycle helmet which is a hefty item.

One of the biggest problems with cycle helmets is that they actually aren’t very effective, but the general wisdom is that they are. They are designed for a drop of 6 foot, from stationary. Not a hit from a motor vehicle.

When there has been compulsion, there has been a drop in cycling (bad for the environment and for Public Health) and an increase in the rate of head injuries amongst cyclists.

It is a shame that newspaper reports on crashes say “He/she wasn’t wearing a helmet” when helmet wearing is not a legal requirement but never say “He/she wasn’t wearing a seatbelt” when seatbelt wearing is a legal requirement.

 

[Cobra]

"She ran a red light and was hit by an Audi A3" . How come ?

Again, #55
before she ran a red light at a pedestrian crossing

 

[Pound Coin]

Again, #55
before she ran a red light at a pedestrian crossing

A confusion is that from the report i is unclear if it was a road facing red light, or a pavement one.

 

[Cobra]

A confusion is that from the report i is unclear if it was a road facing red light, or a pavement one.

No confusion, she was the one that ran a red light.
Had it been the road one she would have hit a pedestrian.
Had it been the one on the path, she would have / been hit by a car.

 

[JohnC6]

One of the biggest problems with cycle helmets is that they actually aren’t very effective, but the general wisdom is that they are. They are designed for a drop of 6 foot, from stationary. Not a hit from a motor vehicle.

When there has been compulsion, there has been a drop in cycling (bad for the environment and for Public Health) and an increase in the rate of head injuries amongst cyclists.

It is a shame that newspaper reports on crashes say “He/she wasn’t wearing a helmet” when helmet wearing is not a legal requirement but never say “He/she wasn’t wearing a seatbelt” when seatbelt wearing is a legal requirement.

I take on board what you've said. It's like walking through treacle having a discussion online..lol. but..I envisaged the lady's scooter being hit, she falls to the ground, striking her head on the roadway or kerb edge..not a car hitting her head.

I'm surprised at those stats re a drop in cycling and more head injuries amongst cyclists. What country, where there is compulsion, shows those numbers ?

Here are the findings from the Cochrane Database of Systematic Reviews,

Data from hospitals show 40% of cyclists and 45% of child cyclists suffer head injuries. Three quarters of cyclist fatalities have major head injuries. Meanwhile, a Cochrane review suggested helmets reduced the risk of injury to the head and the brain by a substantial 65%-88%; and the upper and mid-face by 65%.

However, Cycling UK say this:
"There is in any case a good deal of controversy about the effectiveness of helmets. As mentioned, they are (and can only be) designed for minor knocks and bumps, not collisions with fast cars or lorries. There is also evidence to suggest that: some cyclists ride less cautiously when wearing them; that drivers leave less space when overtaking helmeted cyclists than those without; that helmeted cyclists suffer 14% more collisions per mile travelled than non-wearers; and that helmets may increase the risk of neck injuries. It is therefore entirely possible that helmet-wearing might have a net disbenefit even in safety terms (a point also suggested by some of the empirical evidence), not to mention the health and other disbenefits identified above"

Quite a debate,really but if I had a bike I'd wear a helmet.

 

[Pound Coin]

No confusion, she was the one that ran a red light.
Had it been the road one she would have hit a pedestrian.
Had it been the one on the path, she would have / been hit by a car.

Could instead of would, I think?

She was hit by a car, and it is unclear from the reports how.

 

[JohnC6]

Again, #55
before she ran a red light at a pedestrian crossing

I'm sorry..yes, it was a pedestrian crossing..it would have to be a Pelican,Puffin or Toucan crossing (with lights) but where does the Audi A3 come in ? She's cycling along and goes through a red light at a crossing.There wouldn't be car infront of her after she went through and cars would be stationary coming the other way..or am I missing something ?

 

[Cobra]

Cound instead of would, I think?

She was hit by a car, and it is unclear from the reports how.

I'm not playing your game.
I'm fed up with the staff reports of you trolling.
Any more and your'll be holding hands with Steve.

 

[Cobra]

I'm sorry..yes, it was a pedestrian..it would have to be a Pelican,Puffin or Toucan crossing (with lights) but where does the Audi A3 come in ? She's cycling along and goes through a red light at a crossing.There wouldn't be car infront of her after she went through and cars would be stationary coming the other way..or am I missing something ?

See my post above.

 

[Pound Coin]

I take on board what you've said. It's like walking through treacle having a discussion online..lol. but..I envisaged the lady's scooter being hit, she falls to the ground, striking her head on the roadway or kerb edge..not a car hitting her head.

I'm surprised at those stats re a drop in cycling and more head injuries amongst cyclists. What country, where there is compulsion, shows those numbers ?

Here are the findings from the Cochrane Database of Systematic Reviews,

Data from hospitals show 40% of cyclists and 45% of child cyclists suffer head injuries. Three quarters of cyclist fatalities have major head injuries. Meanwhile, a Cochrane review suggested helmets reduced the risk of injury to the head and the brain by a substantial 65%-88%; and the upper and mid-face by 65%.

However, Cycling UK say this:
"There is in any case a good deal of controversy about the effectiveness of helmets. As mentioned, they are (and can only be) designed for minor knocks and bumps, not collisions with fast cars or lorries. There is also evidence to suggest that: some cyclists ride less cautiously when wearing them; that drivers leave less space when overtaking helmeted cyclists than those without; that helmeted cyclists suffer 14% more collisions per mile travelled than non-wearers; and that helmets may increase the risk of neck injuries. It is therefore entirely possible that helmet-wearing might have a net disbenefit even in safety terms (a point also suggested by some of the empirical evidence), not to mention the health and other disbenefits identified above"

Quite a debate,really but if I had a bike I'd wear a helmet.

Yeah, it is a complex issue.

Children are different as they have less well developed skulls, awareness of risk and of body size. I'd agree with helmets for children. As long as it doesn't put children off cycling. More cycling means less obesity and diabetes and joint problems and so on. Deaths from these outweigh deaths from cycling incidents.

Data from hospitals is exactly that - data from hospitals. It doesn't give data from people that arnt in hospital.

A bit like a policeman saying most people they meet are crooks.

 

[JohnC6]

Yeah, it is a complex issue.

Children are different as they have less well developed skulls, awareness of risk and of body size. I'd agree with helmets for children. As long as it doesn't put children off cycling. More cycling means less obesity and diabetes and joint problems and so on. Deaths from these outweigh deaths from cycling incidents.

Data from hospitals is exactly that - data from hospitals. It doesn't give data from people that arnt in hospital.

A bit like a policeman saying most people they meet are crooks.

Yes..agree. Kiddies should be made to wear them I haven't seen a child,out with mum/dad, who wasn't wearing a helmet, though,so that's good.

 

[JohnC6]

See my post above.

I think I've got it now. The article just says "she ran a red light" so it's fair to assume she was on the road. That's what the reporter failed to make clear .That's really bad for a journalist .I see what you're saying, now .To be hit by a car she would have had to have been on the footpath and despite a red 'walking man' sign which is on the pole..she rode across the crossing and was hit by the Audi. As I say,poor explanantion by the reporter. It shouldn't be left to readers to work it out.

I'm sorry you saw myself and Pound Coin as 'trolling"..I assume you meant me ,too but the nub of the problem is the expression 'running a red light'. It normally applies to vehicles/cyclists on the road. I'd never have associated it with a crossing red 'walking man' for pedestrians.

 

[Cobra]

I think I've got it now. The article just says "she ran a red light" so it's fair to assume she was on the road.

who died after being hit by a black Audi A3 car

she ran a red light at a pedestrian crossing

 

[Cobra]

How about a pretty picture, There is no doubt that she ran, perhaps you would be happier with "jumped" the lights.




Antonia sustained a broken leg. She was subsequently taken to Northampton General Hospital, the inquest heard.
Following surgery, Antonia tragically died four days after the collision, on December 10, due to a blood clot in the lungs, the inquest heard.

So you see it wasn't a head injury, That's the result of making up your own part of the story and going off on a tangent.

 

[Cobra]

I'm sorry you saw myself and Pound Coin as 'trolling"..I assume you meant me ,too but the nub of the problem is the expression 'running a red light'. It normally applies to vehicles/cyclists on the road. I'd never have associated it with a crossing red 'walking man' for pedestrians.

You were both making up your own irrelevant questions,
ie what has the type of crossing got to do with it.
How was she hit by a car?

Granted, you aren't quite so bad as quid, he is the expert.
And he has been on borrowed time for quite awhile...

 

[Cagey75]

Again, #55
before she ran a red light at a pedestrian crossing

I would instantly take this as she was crossing, by scooter, on the pedestrian crossing - something I've witnessed numerous times here, people on scooters imagining that they are still 'pedestrians' - they are not. The light was red on the crossing, and she was hit by the car who was on green. [car being in the right]

I haven't read the arguments, I'm just going by the original post, that is how it seems at first read at least

 

[Cobra]

I would instantly take this as she was crossing, by scooter, on the pedestrian crossing -

Exactly ( the now map clearly shows)

I haven't read the arguments, I'm just going by the original post, that is how it seems at first read at least

Oh go on, treat yourself to a couple of people dissecting the article to the Nth degree.
And quite frankly arguing for the sake of it.

 

[Cagey75]

Exactly ( the now map clearly shows)


Oh go on, treat yourself to a couple of people dissecting the article to the Nth degree.
And quite frankly arguing for the sake of it.

Maybe, I am having trouble getting to sleep!

I'm a cyclist myself, have been for almost 40 years [since I learned to ride a bike pretty much, 47 atm] - Only accidents I've ever been involved in were all by my lonesome. I've had some embarrassing falls over the years [like the time I hung my jacket over the handlebars and the sleeve got caught in the front spokes ... ] never once involving anyone else, not a pedestrian, car, train ... I stick to the rules of the road, mind my own, never imagine I have any God given right to stray from the rules. I see these high powered scooters and E-bikes now whizzing past me at frantic pace, and yes, I have been tempted - they're faster than me, they're not spending any energy [God forbid they'd get some excercise while zipping around!] and tbh, some of them look damn cool! But I'd like to think if I ever did invest in such a contraption, I'd keep my head, and rule following record.