E - Scooters

arclight

arclight

Oooh that burglar's a cutie
Suspended / Banned
Messages
11,633
Name
Doug
Edit My Images
Yes
Police Scotland have just published the following statement:-

In July of this year, the UK Government introduced legislation trialling the use of e-scooters, through local authorities, for a period of 12 months via approved rental companies. There are currently no such rental schemes operating in Scotland and private use of e-scooters in a public place is not legal.

While e-scooters are legally available to purchase, it is currently against the law to ride a privately owned E-scooter in any public place in the UK. This includes roads, pavements, parks, town centres or promenades. The only place a privately owned e-scooter can be used is on private land with the agreement of the land owner.

E-scooters are currently classified as Personal Light Electric Vehicles (PLEVs) so they are treated as motor vehicles and are subject to the same legal requirements as any other motor vehicle, requiring insurance, a valid driving licence, and compliance with various construction and use requirements.

(Full statement here https://www.scotland.police.uk/what...king-to-purchase-an-e-scooter-this-christmas/

If E-scooters are subject to the same legal requirements are any other motor vehicle then surely it is time that bicycles were treated as motor vehicles.
 
arclight said:
If E-scooters are subject to the same legal requirements are any other motor vehicle then surely it is time that bicycles were treated as motor vehicles.
Click to expand...
I think that makes sense but it's going to be hard to change the rules and pretty much impossible to enforce. :(
 
Aside from the obvious, what is the difference between an ebike and escooter? Why can I ride one at 15mph and not the other!
 
E-bikes need to be pedalled before the electrical assistance kicks in (IIRC) to be fully compliant.
 
arclight said:
If E-scooters are subject to the same legal requirements are any other motor vehicle then surely it is time that bicycles were treated as motor vehicles.
Click to expand...


Scooters are driven purely by electric motor, electric bikes are typically* only assisted by electric motor. This distinction is key as to why they are treated differently legally.


*Some bikes can be operated only on the electric motor, or have been modified to do so. These are classified the same as electric scooters and other motor vehicles and are illegal to use in public.
 
Mr Bump said:
yes it is mate, the ant-bike brigade just won't give it a rest will they.
Click to expand...
It's nothing to do with being anti bike. Cyclists cause congestion, cars have to queue behind them until there is a gap in oncoming traffic to allow them to overtake. That causes higher emissions.
Cyclists are unregistered and unlicensed, they tend to ignore the rules of the road, probably as there is no requirement for them to learn them and take a test.
Cyclists can still damage cars or injure pedestrians, yet they get to use the roads uninsured. Hardly fair is it. Insurance for a cyclist is going to be cheap anyway, so why not make it a legal requirement?
 
nilagin said:
Insurance for a cyclist is going to be cheap anyway, so why not make it a legal requirement?
Click to expand...
It's unfortunate that our political system is dominated by the demands of the noisiest special interest groups and not by the needs of the majority. It would make sense to require cyclists to be recognisable by ANPR, thus encouraging them to behave according to the rules.
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
It's unfortunate that our political system is dominated by the demands of the noisiest special interest groups and not by the needs of the majority. It would make sense to require cyclists to be recognisable by ANPR, thus encouraging them to behave according to the rules.
Click to expand...

I dont see how you can enforce it - certainly without investment and police focus when they should have more important things to focus on. Part of the reason cyclists do what they do is that there is no license to pass or lose. How do you identify by ANPR - a plate would cause drag (for the road bikes) and where to place, could easily be obscured by a coat etc... and anyway, I would just take it off, Could easily have "fallen off" if stopped or if biking through town a foot copper is not going to stop me!
 
cambsno said:
or if biking through town a foot copper is not going to stop me!
Click to expand...
The City of London Police have had cycle patrols capable of keeping up with bad cyclists for years. When I worked in the Fleet Street area it wasn't unusual to see cyclists chased down and stopped by policemen in Lycra. It all depends on how much you value living in a safe, ordered society.
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
The City of London Police have had cycle patrols capable of keeping up with bad cyclists for years. When I worked in the Fleet Street area it wasn't unusual to see cyclists chased down and stopped by policemen in Lycra. It all depends on how much you value living in a safe, ordered society.
Click to expand...

I guess you need to look at the resources - could that money be better spent on domestic violence, robberies, assaults etc... Yes, there are some cases of bikes injuring pedestrians (but often the pedestrian is also at fault) and if a bike has an argument with a car its the cyclist that comes off worst!
 
cambsno said:
I dont see how you can enforce it - certainly without investment and police focus when they should have more important things to focus on. Part of the reason cyclists do what they do is that there is no license to pass or lose. How do you identify by ANPR - a plate would cause drag (for the road bikes) and where to place, could easily be obscured by a coat etc... and anyway, I would just take it off, Could easily have "fallen off" if stopped or if biking through town a foot copper is not going to stop me!
Click to expand...
A plate can go on the back of the seat. Your arse will stop the plate causing any drag. Just because a foot copper may not stop you doesn't mean a road copper won't.
If you obscure it with a coat, remove it, or it fell off you could probably then be fined £1000, just like a motorist and rightly so. I am sure a foot copper would dearly love to stop you for that.
 
cambsno said:
I guess you need to look at the resources - could that money be better spent on domestic violence, robberies, assaults etc... Yes, there are some cases of bikes injuring pedestrians (but often the pedestrian is also at fault) and if a bike has an argument with a car its the cyclist that comes off worst!
Click to expand...
My son used to drive up London regularly in a lorry. The majority of cyclists there have a death wish. It was so bad, he couldn't bear to drive up there in the end for fear one may end up under his wheels and asked to be given jobs outside of London. This meant less money as the company paid extra for London because of the stress.
If a cyclist has an argument with a car, it's the motorist that gets the financial burden of getting their car fixed.
Odd that motorists have to give cyclists a wide berth, but a cyclist can weave close to cars, knocking mirrors etc. My mate, stationary in traffic, had his door mirror knocked off his car by a cyclist weaving through the cars.
Over £200 alone for a replacement let alone the cost of fitting and painting the cap.
 
nilagin said:
A plate can go on the back of the seat. Your arse will stop the plate causing any drag. Just because a foot copper may not stop you doesn't mean a road copper won't.
If you obscure it with a coat, remove it, or it fell off you could probably then be fined £1000, just like a motorist and rightly so. I am sure a foot copper would dearly love to stop you for that.
Click to expand...

Will never work. On the back of a seat means a coat will easily obscure it, would need to be lower down, but not all bikes have mudguards. As for drag, even changing pedals can affect that so sticking on a plate certainly will.

Yes cyclists can be anti-social but so to can pedestrians (and my near misses on a bike are normally as a result of pedestrians) but I dont get the problem we are trying to solve. Is the problem that serious that we need to divert funds from other areas into this? I seriously doubt it.
 
cambsno said:
Will never work. On the back of a seat means a coat will easily obscure it, would need to be lower down, but not all bikes have mudguards. As for drag, even changing pedals can affect that so sticking on a plate certainly will.

Yes cyclists can be anti-social but so to can pedestrians (and my near misses on a bike are normally as a result of pedestrians) but I dont get the problem we are trying to solve. Is the problem that serious that we need to divert funds from other areas into this? I seriously doubt it.
Click to expand...
No funds need diverting.
 
cambsno said:
and my near misses on a bike are normally as a result of pedestrians.
Click to expand...
I rode a bike for many years and I was never involved in nor did I witness any incident between pedestrians and bicycles caused by a pedestrian but I have witnessed too many incidents between pedestrians and bicycles caused be aggressive or thoughtless cyclists.
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
I rode a bike for many years and I was never involved in nor did I witness any incident between pedestrians and bicycles caused by a pedestrian but I have witnessed too many incidents between pedestrians and bicycles caused be aggressive or thoughtless cyclists.
Click to expand...

Specifically its is on a busway path we have locally, very popular with people walking but you do get groups spread all over the path and they have stepped out without looking, but that could just be a local thing.
 
nilagin said:
No funds need diverting.
Click to expand...

Well, if you are asking police to enforce it the time spent doing that will be at the expense of doing other things. They can only do one thing at a time.
 
nilagin said:
My son used to drive up London regularly in a lorry. The majority of cyclists there have a death wish. It was so bad, he couldn't bear to drive up there in the end for fear one may end up under his wheels and asked to be given jobs outside of London. This meant less money as the company paid extra for London because of the stress.
If a cyclist has an argument with a car, it's the motorist that gets the financial burden of getting their car fixed.
Odd that motorists have to give cyclists a wide berth, but a cyclist can weave close to cars, knocking mirrors etc. My mate, stationary in traffic, had his door mirror knocked off his car by a cyclist weaving through the cars.
Over £200 alone for a replacement let alone the cost of fitting and painting the cap.
Click to expand...

As a relatively new cyclist (been biking for 10 years with kids or to see mates, but only this year have a road bike and doing up to 50 miles) and I see far more anti-social driving than I see anti-social cycling when driving in my car - and I live near a bike heavy city in Cambridge. Cars passing too close is the main issue, with the occasional pulling out of turnings. I dont think weaving through traffic is wrong, motorbikes do it.

We just need to live and let live a bit - some cyclists are t***s as are some drivers.
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
I rode a bike for many years and I was never involved in nor did I witness any incident between pedestrians and bicycles caused by a pedestrian but I have witnessed too many incidents between pedestrians and bicycles caused be aggressive or thoughtless cyclists.
Click to expand...
I used to cycle to work, I had one instance where a woman just stepped off the pavement in front of me, fortunately the man she was with dragged her back out of the way, and apologised to me. Other than that, just a group of people who walked in the road rather than on the pavement, I never had any trouble from motorists, I was always aware of them and if they were struggling to pass i would pull over and let them through. I always tried to pick the best route where I would be of little hindrance to traffic.
I used to see many other cyclists, one very sociable and would always say hello and wave as he overtook me on his racing bike, but there used to be some right a******e cyclists who had a dislike of any other road users, regardless of whether they were on foot, in a vehicle or even other cyclists.
 
Up this end of the world ,which has a lot of open spaces and under used roads compared to the cities . Lycra clad men on bikes I find to be the most arrogant arse.wipes on the planet .. not only riding in groups 2 or 3 abreast but on footpaths that have been designated for there use but not sufficiently widened .
I’m tone deaf I simply cannot hear a small bell approaching from behind me and at my age I can’t move out of there way quick enough it seems .. one short sentence sums it up ..I hate the t***s
 
the black fox said:
Up this end of the world ,which has a lot of open spaces and under used roads compared to the cities . Lycra clad men on bikes I find to be the most arrogant arse.wipes on the planet .. not only riding in groups 2 or 3 abreast but on footpaths that have been designated for there use but not sufficiently widened .
I’m tone deaf I simply cannot hear a small bell approaching from behind me and at my age I can’t move out of there way quick enough it seems .. one short sentence sums it up ..I hate the t***s
Click to expand...
The gym I go to is on a country road, not overly busy more a steady stream of cars. The local cycling club seem to favour it for some reason, mostly it will be a single rider or a pair, one behind the other, so not really a problem and usually only a second or so before there is a gap in oncoming traffic to allow people to overtake. But if it is anymore than two then they become the obnoxious problem, two or three riding side by side, holding up cars behind and making it difficult to overtake, and you have to hang right back to watch for a gap to overtake.
If I get such a group that won't show some consideration for everyone else, lucky for me my car comes with the means to be even more considerate. It has 4 driving modes, one of them being Sport mode which gives a sharper throttle response as well as better handling. A byproduct of the sharper throttle response is a bit of backfire when changing gear. Moderate acceleration may produce a small pop from the exhaust, but to get past the group quickly requires harder acceleration, which results on more than just a pop , it's more like loud rapid machine gun fire. It must frighten the life out of them. ;)
 
cambsno said:
Will never work. On the back of a seat means a coat will easily obscure it, would need to be lower down, but not all bikes have mudguards. As for drag, even changing pedals can affect that so sticking on a plate certainly will.

Yes cyclists can be anti-social but so to can pedestrians (and my near misses on a bike are normally as a result of pedestrians) but I dont get the problem we are trying to solve. Is the problem that serious that we need to divert funds from other areas into this? I seriously doubt it.
Click to expand...


Riders could wear a vest with a personal registration it. Simples. Licence the rider, not the bike.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sky
Jelster said:
Riders could wear a vest with a personal registration it. Simples. Licence the rider, not the bike.
Click to expand...

For what purpose? A problem that isn’t really there?

Makes no sense whatsoever. Even if I did have one and wove in and out of traffic hitting a wing mirror, pretty hard to prove so not sure what it solves.
 
cambsno said:
For what purpose? A problem that isn’t really there?

Makes no sense whatsoever. Even if I did have one and wove in and out of traffic hitting a wing mirror, pretty hard to prove so not sure what it solves.
Click to expand...
Lots of cars have dash cams.
 
Fixing our non-sustainable transport problem will need bicycles, e-bikes and e-scooters. Cars just use far too much resource and are completely unsustainable for the world.

It is possibly too late already though.
 
We have a dispute with local developers here.
Along the front of my property is a short footpath, that leads from the High street via a single track access road, the the main road through the estate and then up a single track private lane to some woodland.
A few years back, in 2014, developers got permission to build on the fields beyond the woods, admittedly
they have improved the footpath through the woods
A few weeks ago some workmen turned up, moved a royal mail postbox and dug up a couple of trees.
The plan being to turn this footpath into a cycle track which no one actually knew anything about.
When confronted by several people they called in one of the site managers, work was stopped.
It seems their definition of the plans being in the "public domain" meant a mention of it hidden in the original plans and
never finalised, so now it is going down the proper channels and concerrns have been raised about the safety
of changing use
 
Graham W said:
Would you like to see all cycles taxed and insured?
At what age would you need it? 6, 10, 16, 18?
"Cycles cause congestion"! :ROFLMAO:
I really don't know where to start with this thread...and the hundred others like it.
Click to expand...


Nope just like them to obey the law and ride safely, not the heads down black lycra clad idiots I see a lot where I used to live
 
Pound Coin said:
Fixing our non-sustainable transport problem will need bicycles, e-bikes and e-scooters. Cars just use far too much resource and are completely unsustainable for the world.

It is possibly too late already though.
Click to expand...
If cars were completely unsustainable they would have disappeared years ago, they have been around for over 140yrs.
 
Graham W said:
"Cycles cause congestion"! :ROFLMAO:
Click to expand...
Of course they do. When I was a kid and teenager and adult, you rode by the kerb, you caused little hindrance but traffic could overtake and keep moving, then someone decided that more room should be left when overtaking, now that gap has changed again, so instead of being able to overtake safely and still remain on the correct side of the road, motorists now have to wait for a suitable sized gap in the oncoming traffic before they can overtake. Thus traffic starts building up behind the cyclist. At best maybe two cars get to overtake and then the rest have to wait for the next gap.
 
cambsno said:
Lots dont, and would a dash cam really work on a wing mirror - are they that wide?

Case in point through - Manchester police failed to record 80k crimes in a year - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-55251366 - so by putting in another thing for them to check and do is stretching them further. If they were to police this as well something has to give.
Click to expand...
It doesn't have to be in the actual vehicle that loses the mirror, it could be in any car. Police get sent lots of dash cam footage from motorists and have prosecuted or issued warnings based on the footage. It actually saves the police money and leaves time to concentrate on other stuff.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top