Dundee Wedding Photographer - Finaly got going

Hi Barry, it doesn't matter if us lot where offended by your blog, it's more about anyone looking to use your services who would be offended, and fair play to you for removing it too. It is obvious you are a very passionate bloke! Regarding getting an L series lens - it's a no brainer really. Forget about the need to spend £1000, £2000, £3000 on a new body. What people forget is this: whether you use a Canon 10D or a Canon EOS 1Ds Mark III, if you have no talent for taking photographs it doesn't matter what you use. A person with talent can take a photograph on a £30 Holga which has more impact than a photograph taken on a £5000 camera by a person with no talent. Bear that in mind before you rush out and upgrade your 40D on the advice of those who say the 40D isn't suitable for pro-work. As long as you have the ability then it is. If you can stretch to some new glass though then go for it because it is the lens which will improve the quality of your photographs.
Cheers

Lee
www.sophotogenic.co.uk
 
Barry
Thier r aslo a fwe speling adn gramar erors in yuor curent paeg

Spell checking is not the only answer - you also need to be able to use punctuation properly too and there's not much use on your site. This all creates a professional (or unprofessional) look.


gallry (gallery)
studiosimply (studio simply)
accessable (accessible)
 
Sophotogenic said:
Hi Barry, it doesn't matter if us lot where offended by your blog, it's more about anyone looking to use your services who would be offended, and fair play to you for removing it too. It is obvious you are a very passionate bloke! Regarding getting an L series lens - it's a no brainer really. Forget about the need to spend £1000, £2000, £3000 on a new body. What people forget is this: whether you use a Canon 10D or a Canon EOS 1Ds Mark III, if you have no talent for taking photographs it doesn't matter what you use. A person with talent can take a photograph on a £30 Holga which has more impact than a photograph taken on a £5000 camera by a person with no talent. Bear that in mind before you rush out and upgrade your 40D on the advice of those who say the 40D isn't suitable for pro-work. As long as you have the ability then it is. If you can stretch to some new glass though then go for it because it is the lens which will improve the quality of your photographs.
Cheers

Lee
www.sophotogenic.co.uk
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i agree.

I use a 40D/20D combo. I've used a 1DIII and a 5DII and whilst nice i didn't get the feeling I HAD to upgrade although I too may do so this year.

I still don't think the images on Barry's web site are near the quality required to be booking people's weddings - fine for the cheap price so long as that is what people expect.

Sorry for being blunt here Barry. i don't mean you any harm. Just a wee reality check.

To spend a lot of money on a shop is a massive step! How do you plan to recover that money from the prices you're charging?

PS Lee - you are way too cheap man! Some great images and a cracking web site :)
 
Cheers mate much appreciated.

Barry needs to price himself based upon the experience he has because he might get bookings, but the increase in people being let down by the quality of the photos increases. If you have little or no experience don't charge for it until you do. It might take longer to become established but it is worth it. Experience is priceless. Getting bad press from clients isn't.

I'm a professional photographer so I need to look at ways of making money from my photography each and every day, yet I will not and never would charge for a style of photography I have no experience in. I have a lot of portfolio photography experience, mainly of women. Taking portfolio photographs of women is completely different to taking photographs of blokes so whenever a guy wants a portfolio done, I do it for free to reflect my lack of experience. It's fair - I'm not into photography to rip anyone off and I've always wanted to do it the right way, and I think that it is.
 
Sophotogenic said:
Cheers mate much appreciated.

Barry needs to price himself based upon the experience he has because he might get bookings, but the increase in people being let down by the quality of the photos increases. If you have little or no experience don't charge for it until you do. It might take longer to become established but it is worth it. Experience is priceless. Getting bad press from clients isn't.

I'm a professional photographer so I need to look at ways of making money from my photography each and every day, yet I will not and never would charge for a style of photography I have no experience in. I have a lot of portfolio photography experience, mainly of women. Taking portfolio photographs of women is completely different to taking photographs of blokes so whenever a guy wants a portfolio done, I do it for free to reflect my lack of experience. It's fair - I'm not into photography to rip anyone off and I've always wanted to do it the right way, and I think that it is.
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Great advice - I'm cheap beacuse I feel I lack experience too. I've shot about 15 weddings - some for free and others still relatively cheap. I'm not a professional though but do aspire at some point to make more money from my photography. I actually prefer portrait work of kids and babies :) I just don't have the space for a studio :(
 
The fact is - it's so cheap for anyone to buy a DSLR, knock up a website and charge unsuspecting punters good money for non-existant experience. One of the reasons why I have the "OPPORTUNITY" page on my website is to help talented amateur or semi-pro photographers counteract this, and there is no shortage of interested parties either, and who can blame them!

I ran my own studio here in County Durham for a year and to be honest I didn't enjoy it one bit and was really pleased to get rid of it. It did pretty well and it was worth experiencing, but I got bored quickly. Guess I'm an on location person really!
 
barry100 said:
....Any ways what this post is about is, i would like some feedback and advice on how to market my self around Dundee as a wedding photographer. I have printed flyers which i have been putting in hotels, wedding venues etc../QUOTE]

Barry,

If you haven't already done it, get your flyers into Dianne-Lynn in Bank Street. If you have any problems I could take some flyers and get them in there for you ;)

Where's your wedding on the 20th, I might stand-back as a 'mystery-shopper' to see how you operate.

As part of your service do you visit the couple and family before-hand?
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Well I can't really add much more to this as most has been covered by everyone already. Now I admit I am not the best at spelling but you have got wedding spelt wrong on your website. Bit of a big one for me!
 
it's so cheap for anyone to buy a DSLR, knock up a website and charge unsuspecting punters good money for non-existent experience
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That couldn't have been written better. Your jumping in the deep end here without any arm bands on Barry. I wouldn't be surprised if this runs your business into the ground. I don't mean to be harsh or blunt or whatever but as it stands I don't think you have the credentials and experience required to operate as a wedding photographer. I'd be inclined to assist a professional for the next couple of years while you concentrate on your portraits. This would silently build your portfolio giving you a better base to work with.

Out of interest, why did you quite your SEO business?
 
Bawbee said:
barry100 said:
....Any ways what this post is about is, i would like some feedback and advice on how to market my self around Dundee as a wedding photographer. I have printed flyers which i have been putting in hotels, wedding venues etc../QUOTE]

Barry,

If you haven't already done it, get your flyers into Dianne-Lynn in Bank Street. If you have any problems I could take some flyers and get them in there for you ;)

Where's your wedding on the 20th, I might stand-back as a 'mystery-shopper' to see how you operate.

As part of your service do you visit the couple and family before-hand?
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Hi Bawbee. I have already put the flyers in all of the wedding dress shops etc. I do visit couples before hand and on location and I have told them all, that I have (had at the time) done no weddings so far - although i have been updating them and letting them know i now have done one and they like the results (plus as soon as they photos are approved by the couple on Saturday they will also be going onto my site and shown to my clients). I would let you come along to the wedding but I think i would feel kinda intimidated with you there. I have another one at Westpark next month and I might consider you having a nosie then.. ;)

BTW my gear is as it stands:

40d
20d (backup - has a couple of dusty flakes in the viewfinder which really annoys me)
18-55mm lens canon
17-85mm lens canon
10-20mm lens sigma
nifty 50 canon
430ex speedlite
28-200mm sigma
bum bag to hold 2 lenses
Battery Grip which i could not live without now

I was going to try to strap 2 cameras round my neck but when i tried it before it just become to much so one camera and lenses to hand if needed. I mostly used the 18-55 at the last wedding and like was said above, and I agree, doesn't matter what camera you use, you need to know where to point and what to shoot, and according to what people say to me, i know that part.

I went to see the bride to be yesterday and we are both looking forward to the day very much. when I was first looking for wedding clients i got the couples to fill a list of shots they would really prefer but I soon got rid of it as it was to extensive and I have always said I am not really wanting to do the brush handle up the back shots so I have said that I would prefer to be pretty much free and easy on the day and have a close family member help me get group shots together. Also so far the couples have told me they don't want lots of group shots, more a (dare i use the word as the meaning used on many sites has become so convoluted) reportage style of photography on the day. At the last wedding i did do a couple of semi formals but they were on request.

The bride for tomorrow (who i spoke to yesterday at her home) told me she only really wants a couple of semi formals of very close family members who will be grouped by my self and her mother, then I have free reign to take whatever i like. I intend to do some portraits of the bride on location and we have already looked out good places for this plus i have been back to the location a couple of times to check lighting etc.

I would say i am pretty well organised but I do appreciate that things do not always go to plan so as far as i am concerned there is no over all plan.

Any ways - its just after 7am and i am prattling on so i better get the bairns ready for school and i will look back soon to see if any one has a reply for me!!
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King_Boru said:
That couldn't have been written better. Your jumping in the deep end here without any arm bands on Barry. I wouldn't be surprised if this runs your business into the ground. I don't mean to be harsh or blunt or whatever but as it stands I don't think you have the credentials and experience required to operate as a wedding photographer. I'd be inclined to assist a professional for the next couple of years while you concentrate on your portraits. This would silently build your portfolio giving you a better base to work with.

Out of interest, why did you quite your SEO business?
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I have given up SEO because it has become a chore. I like to enjoy my work and I dont now enjoy SEO also there are so many companies doing it from India etc, the market has become flooded.

Also can i just add to what you have quoted above

it's so cheap for anyone to buy a DSLR, knock up a website and charge unsuspecting punters good money for non-existent experience


I am not charging unsuspecting punters. I am being totally honest with them about my experience and facilities. I have been doing photography for website design clients for years and I know this is different but i havnt just said here i bet i can make a quick buck from wedding photography. I took almost a year to get to the point were i said to my self that i was ready to do it and I do intend to be here for a very long time. I am investing allot of time effort and hard earned cash into this venture simply because i love doing it - not because i am trying to make some fast cash. Granted anyone can knock up a quick site and buy a camera, but when you have to go a meet people and if you are honest with them about your intentions and tell them why you are doing this (and why you are charging the prices you do at this point in the business) then they can take it or leave it. i dont do a sales pitch at all. I show people what i have to offer and if they want it they take it - if they don't want it they will find someone else. I have spoke to many couples both at their homes and at my studio who have not taken me on for their weddings so some people are not confident in my abilities. If i find through time that i am not any good i will not continue to offer the service and this has been my intention from day one - if on the other hand I am good at what i am doing then i will continue doing wedding photography and enjoy the benefits (both the financial rewards and the sense of pride in providing a good service). Also to finish this entry, wedding photography is not the only photography service I provide, it is just another part of the business.

If people are going to have a go at me for trying to start a business without understanding my standpoint and experience, then are they posting because they have nothing better to do with their day? I have just started doing wedding photography but photography in general has been a part of my life for many years and I do enjoy it. this is just a progression out of what I am doing just now to make money to feed my self and my family into something that I love doing and the benefit is that it will put food on the table too.
 
i forgot to say King_Boru you can see my website by typing website designer into google. I was on the first page for a long time but I am now at the top of page 2. Also I have been at the top of the search engines in my local area for well over 5 years now and so have the majority of the hundreds of websites design clients i have. and lol they pick me up on spelling too but spelling mistakes can be some times over looked when the money is coming in from the website.
 
Hi Barry, it was me who made the:

"it's so cheap for anyone to buy a DSLR, knock up a website and charge unsuspecting punters good money for non-existent experience" comment. It wasn't actually aimed at you, but someone else has quoted it out of context.

The fact is, it is easy for people to set up a Wedding photography business in particular and jump on the bandwagon. If that is all you did and you charged top dollar with no experience then some would think that it would be a bandwagon jumper. The fact that you have a studio and do other things brings credibility to your work, and reassures potential clients that you are credible.

If you read the comments on this thread, the feedback you have received from everyone will help you. Wedding photography isn't like portrait photography, you only get one chance. Mess up a Wedding, get sued for it and your business will crumble like a pack of cards because of it - it's that important to know what your doing and be confident about what it is your doing. No one is saying you don't know how to take photos or use a camera, we are, in a good way, looking out for you. And I wouldn't of said that was a bad thing.

Cheers

Lee
 
thanks lee. I know people are trying to help and it is appreciated. Looking at my stats there (i check allot, trace ip addresses etc .. help with SEO etc..)sammyd56 seems to be a bit obsessed with the cache of the blog posts i put up. weird that.. any ways he says they will live for ever. The thing about google cache is that all i have to do is repost all the blog entries with different content, retainiung the same url and they will in time change .. maybe even within the next few days or so.

Any ways thanks for the help every one and i am glad to be part of the community and i like the advice i am being given.. I will be posting the photographs from tomorrows wedding on my site for people to view as soon as possible so i will be yet again very grateful for any comments or suggestions given to me.
 
Good luck tomorrow Barry. I hope the weather's good for you and you get a few great shots. try to get some nice bridal poses. candid's are all well and good for a general story but some nice Bride/Groom shots make for a great story too.

Don't forget the details either :)

If you can it's best to use both bodies standard zoom on one and a longer lens on the other (or a fast lens if you need it). Can save a lot of time changing lenses and also gives you a far better chance of not missing any shots by having the wrong lens on!

I always shoot with the 40D and either the 24-105f4L or the Tamron 28-75 f2.8 or a faster prime (where required) on one camera and the 70-20 f2.8L IS on the other.

Make sure your memory cards are easily accessible and take yuor time - get the focus right - look at web sites for posing ideas - simple poses can work very well.

Cheers
JD
 
Thanks very much for the advice EOS_JD. The weather here is pretty rough just now but luckily the location has some great places inside for portraits etc.. infact the outside is pretty bland and uneventful. Any way Ill take your advice and try to remember it for tomorrow.
;)
 
Barry, firstly it's very commendable what you are doing and i admire the jump you are making (already made).

One thing i would like to say (from a prospective punter point of view) is the image sizes for the prints.

A4 and A3??

To me this screams home printing .... maybe look into mainstream photosizes to take the attention away from someone printing their own pics.

just my 2p and you can tell me to shut up (i wont take offence)

good luck with your venture and report back how its all going !!

:)

Dazza
 
barry100 said:
a) I took almost a year to get to the point were i said to my self that i was ready to do it

b) If i find through time that i am not any good i will not continue to offer the service and this has been my intention from day one
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I'm not having a go at you Barry. No need to be defensive. I do feel as if you tripped yourself up in your reply. Many wedding photographers spend years shadowing a professional before making the decision to go at it alone. I fear that "almost a year" is paving the way for a mighty painful downfall. As you said, you are investing what seems to be a substantial amount of money into this venture, it would be a shame to see it bite you in the ass. My suggestion remains the same. Shadow a professional wedding photographer. Gain the experience on their watch, reputation and contracts. At your current rates, the loss in profit would be minimal.

This brings me to b). As you fairly stated, clients are in full knowledge of your experience level prior to committing to your services. However I feel that with the above statement the wedding photography venture is a bit of a guinea pig test for you. If it works great, if it doesn't then oh well. This might have detrimental effects to your reputation as a photographer if things don't work out.

I am more concerned for you in the long run if this goes sour. You love your photography, your very passionate. It would be a shame see it bring you to your knees.

Again, I am not trying to hurt your feelings. Its an honest observation. Good luck with it all the same.
 
wrx_dazza said:
Barry, firstly it's very commendable what you are doing and i admire the jump you are making (already made).

One thing i would like to say (from a prospective punter point of view) is the image sizes for the prints.

A4 and A3??

To me this screams home printing .... maybe look into mainstream photosizes to take the attention away from someone printing their own pics.

just my 2p and you can tell me to shut up (i wont take offence)

good luck with your venture and report back how its all going !!

:)

Dazza
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I understand what you mean but I tell you with a good pro level printer you will get better images from printing than many labs! I use entry level high end Epson R2400 and the output is outstanding! Better than most labs I've used :) I don't usually offer A4/A3 sizes right enough.
 
King_Boru said:
I'm not having a go at you Barry. No need to be defensive. I do feel as if you tripped yourself up in your reply. Many wedding photographers spend years shadowing a professional before making the decision to go at it alone. I fear that "almost a year" is paving the way for a mighty painful downfall. As you said, you are investing what seems to be a substantial amount of money into this venture, it would be a shame to see it bite you in the ass. My suggestion remains the same. Shadow a professional wedding photographer. Gain the experience on their watch, reputation and contracts. At your current rates, the loss in profit would be minimal.

This brings me to b). As you fairly stated, clients are in full knowledge of your experience level prior to committing to your services. However I feel that with the above statement the wedding photography venture is a bit of a guinea pig test for you. If it works great, if it doesn't then oh well. This might have detrimental effects to your reputation as a photographer if things don't work out.

I am more concerned for you in the long run if this goes sour. You love your photography, your very passionate. It would be a shame see it bring you to your knees.

Again, I am not trying to hurt your feelings. Its an honest observation. Good luck with it all the same.
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Great advice
 
Please work on your spelling and grammar. Your posts a riddled with errors too. :)
 
You still haven't proofed it properly. On the first page you're talking about copywrite.
 
i know first impressions count but the thing is people want me to take photographs, not to write them an essay. I have had 2 wedding photography enquiries today and i did a wedding today. My website is working.

Spelling and grammar have never been my thing and to be honest it never will. My mother used to write magazines when i was young, she had her own office in the courier in Dundee and she was really a perfectionist at english, spelling and all that stuff - I on the other hand am not so i have not inherited her writing abilities.. Do you all want me to go back to school and relearn how to spell or do you want me to improve my photography? after all i didnt join the forum to learn to spell not to learn to write.
 
I don't think anyone is telling you to go back to school Barry, just suggesting that it might be good practice to use a spell checker ;)
 
Barry, people are giving you advice on the business side of things. You may well be getting some business now, but if you want to expand as you say you do then those first impressions will become paramount and believe me, people will make decisions based on what they see on your website (other than the photographs) and what they see will be their impression of you.
 
sammyd56 said:
I don't think anyone is telling you to go back to school Barry, just suggesting that it might be good practice to use a spell checker ;)
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Sammy is right. A spell checker will help although it's not prefect as spelling their instead of there won't show up. Could you not get someone to proof read?

Whilst my spelling is ok, it really needs someine else (like the wife or another family member) just to give it the once over before posting to the world.

I'd also suggest the reason you are getting bookings is down to one thing - price. Many people just want a cheap photographer not amazing imagery. THe issue with prices though is that the price is unsustainable if this is your only source of income.
 
barry100 said:
i know first impressions count but the thing is people want me to take photographs, not to write them an essay. I have had 2 wedding photography enquiries today and i did a wedding today. My website is working.

Spelling and grammar have never been my thing and to be honest it never will. My mother used to write magazines when i was young, she had her own office in the courier in Dundee and she was really a perfectionist at english, spelling and all that stuff - I on the other hand am not so i have not inherited her writing abilities.. Do you all want me to go back to school and relearn how to spell or do you want me to improve my photography? after all i didnt join the forum to learn to spell not to learn to write.
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You need to learn how to take advice without kicking off.

It's sloppy, and with everyone having a spell-checker now there's no excuse for it. I'll tell you now, some people will see that, think about how you might not care about their images, and click straight off the site.

So, do you want to be the best you can be, or simply settle for 'good enough. Are you going to want to charge £500 for an all day shoot and throw in a disc for the rest of your career? Think about where you might want to be in 3 years time.
 
So how did the wedding go Barry?
 
One question for you Barry, you say on your website:

My wedding photography packages start from as little as £150 and unlike many other wedding photographers in Dundee, I will not retain any copywrite on the photographs
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Would you not be better off giving them full usage rights rather than giving them ownership of the copyright as surely that would prevent you from posting the images on your website?
 
EOS_JD said:
So how did the wedding go Barry?
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hi - sorry ive not been back the past few days..

Man the wedding went swimmingly well. i got around 560 photographs of which 9after i went through them) 30 were binners.

I think i have found my calling...

I cant show the photographs on my site yet as the couple have not seen them.

I had a great time and the day went (like the last wedding) very well and without any real complications. i did notice however that on a couple of occasions my camera sounded like it was over exposing but it wasnt.. like the mirror was locking for a second. i use manual settings all the time so i noticed this right away.

BTW I have had my sister rewrite the content of the home page and wedding page of my site. i have re-altered some of the wedding intro.

At the weekend I got 7 wedding enquiries and i have had another 3 this week. Should be opening my shop start of next week too so im optimistic about the future.

im looking forward to getting the new wedding photographs on to my site but like i said above, i have not shown the couple yet so i cant till Monday.

:)

Got a birthday party on Saturday night (photography for it) and im also getting more and more enquiries!

I don't think though i would have got as many enquiries if it was not for the fact i have been designing websites for years and i know how to do SEO.
 
Foggy said:
One question for you Barry, you say on your website:



Would you not be better off giving them full usage rights rather than giving them ownership of the copyright as surely that would prevent you from posting the images on your website?
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mm good point .. might have to reword that bit!
 
i have altered the wording of the pages to say

You will be allowed to distribute the images with unlimited print/reproduction rights

But i have taken off the references to copywrite

thanks for the heads up!
 
barry100 said:
I don't think though i would have got as many enquiries if it was not for the fact i have been designing websites for years and i know how to do SEO.
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Gumtree must be helping a bit too :thumbs:

Well done and good luck !
 
wrx_dazza said:
Gumtree must be helping a bit too :thumbs:
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Barry hasn't posted that Gumtree add has he - someone's posted it to take the mick out of Barry. Barry's blog was a bad move, and his spelling needs a lot of work, but I think he does want to improve and be honest with his customers about his abilities. Barry is going to benefit from a lot of the C&C, but that Gumtree add is a bit harsh IMO.

PS - if that add really is yours Barry (which I doubt), it's hilarious - for all the wrong reasons
 
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