Dump the 580EX II for a SB-900?

[jpwild]

In another thread I have thought about going to Nikon, but that thought it on hold. I like to do some flash, but I want to get more involved in it and use my speedlite more.

However, I now have Bryan Peterson's book on flash and seen his videos and he often uses or references a SB-900. It looks fantastic when in Manual mode as you have distance, aperture, flash power etc and seems to produce great results.

I know the Canon has some similar with the custom function, but it does not display the flash power and nor can you choose distance.

I prefer to shoot Manual, but love what the SB-900 offers for ease of use.

Is it a good idea to dump the 580EXII and go for SB-900. Of course, I wont be able to use it on camera and will have RF603s to trigger it. I will go second hand for the SB-900. I want to exclusivly shoot off camera with gels etc, so ttl is of no use to me.

 

[DemiLion]

Have a look at the Nissin 866MkII before you go down that route, because it has all of those functions, although I'd be amazed if the 580 didn't as well.

 

[itsdavedotnet]

speedlights are speedlights. The look coming out from them really doesn't change between brands really.

You can zoom in/out with the 580ex2
You can set manual power on the 580ex2
The key controls on a speedlight are power and head zoom. The 580ex has both of these.

Aperture you won't set on any flash, especially if you're in manual mode. This was only ever used in 'A' mode, a crude way of guessing an 'automatic' flash power.

You can use both on camera, SB900 just won't give you TTL.

Overall - I'd suggest an hour spent with the manual and your 580ex, I think that you'll be pleasantly surprised

 

[jpwild]

On the SB-900 in manual mode it offers something that the 580 doesn't. That is to show what manual output actually is as well as the distance et al.

580EX II has 2 manual problems:
1) Normal manual you obviously see and set flash power, but distance scale is disabled.
2) In Custom FN 5 you change manual so you in put iso and aperature and tells flash to subject distance, but does not show you flash power.

SB-900 seems to do that, and I like that.

 

[jpwild]

Have a look at the Nissin 866MkII before you go down that route, because it has all of those functions, although I'd be amazed if the 580 didn't as well.

Yes, had a brief look at that, but is it durable? I have a Yongnuo 560 that's fine, but I am delicate with it, lol.

Erm, I know I've seen something on it close or exactly what I want and would be cheaper than a SB-900, but just concerned about durability and comparability with rf603s

 

[kiteninja]

On the SB-900 in manual mode it offers something that the 580 doesn't. That is to show what manual output actually is as well as the distance et al.

580EX II has 2 manual problems:
1) Normal manual you obviously see and set flash power, but distance scale is disabled.
2) In Custom FN 5 you change manual so you in put iso and aperature and tells flash to subject distance, but does not show you flash power.

SB-900 seems to do that, and I like that.

Surely this is all mute unless your using the flash bare although then that also depends what your shooting?

What are you shooting?

 

[DemiLion]

Yes, had a brief look at that, but is it durable? I have a Yongnuo 560 that's fine, but I am delicate with it, lol.

Erm, I know I've seen something on it close or exactly what I want and would be cheaper than a SB-900, but just concerned about durability and comparability with rf603s

I wouldn't use it for press work if it wasn't durable!

 

[DemiLion]

speedlights are speedlights.

Not true in this case... they're Speedlites!!


But yup, at the level of kit that were talking about they all deliver in pretty much the same way, only the interface changes.

For example the Nissin has a rather cute Av mode, but it's just a different way of calculating manual exposure.

 

[alexam]

Hi Jon,

you can control the 580 EX ii from your camera with an OCF cord. Take a look at Syl Arena videos on the B&H web site or look at Speedliting forum for all the answers.

Malcolm

 

[jpwild]

I'd like to shoot anything. But again, I prefer..in a manual sort of mode to have:
- set aperature
- set ISO
- See flash power/set flash power
- See the flash to subject recomended distance.

Also adjusting aperature or distance or flash power all must be reflected in the distance scale.

All this to be off camera via RF603.

Canon580EX II does not do that. I think the Nissin does and the SB900 defo does as per Bryan Peterson's book. TTL is of no interest to me.

I also have no interest in cords.

 

[kiteninja]

I'd like to shoot anything. But again, I prefer..in a manual sort of mode to have:
- set aperature
- set ISO
- See flash power/set flash power
- See the flash to subject recomended distance.

Also adjusting aperature or distance or flash power all must be reflected in the distance scale.

All this to be off camera via RF603.

Canon580EX II does not do that. I think the Nissin does and the SB900 defo does as per Bryan Peterson's book. TTL is of no interest to me.

I also have no interest in cords.

Are you using a modifier with the 580 surely adding a modifier like a softbox will make the guide distance mute as the flash power is less, Unless your using TTL so that the flash can test the power it requires otherwise in manual mode your flash might be saying 10m but then you've added a softbox which killed a stop so should actually be 6m.

If your going buy distances your flash tells you too use why don't you just buy a TTL Pocket wizard and Use ETTL ??

 

[jpwild]

Okay, sold the 580EX II on here, and purchased a second hand SB-900.

Have to say already I prefer the interface of the Nikon, the pouch, diffuser gels Wow.Very impressive Nikon, very impressive.

Just need to play.

Obviously lose HSS and other little things, but will get a NIssin in a couple of months so I have three flash setup Loving the SB900 and the Manual mode LCD screen with power viewing, distance scale etc is already helping me.

Wooo Hoo.

 

[strobemonkey]

Have to say already I prefer the interface of the Nikon, the pouch, diffuser gels Wow.Very impressive Nikon, very impressive.

Wow I'm also very impressed with sb-900, if they add a free nikon softbox, I will sell my 580 and 430 and buy sb-900 ...

 

[specialman]

The SB900 is a great flash but try to get used to the power differences between different guns - 1/1 power on one may be GN40, on another it could be GN50. This could throw up potential ratio issues as and when you start to put more and more flashes together. Ultimately, you should be judging by what your LCD (histogram and blinks) and/or a light meter is telling you, but it's good to know there is consistency, hence why many strobists use the same flashes.

 

[boliston]

The SB900 is a great flash but try to get used to the power differences between different guns - 1/1 power on one may be GN40, on another it could be GN50. This could throw up potential ratio issues as and when you start to put more and more flashes together. Ultimately, you should be judging by what your LCD (histogram and blinks) and/or a light meter is telling you, but it's good to know there is consistency, hence why many strobists use the same flashes.

I'm pretty sure both SB900 & SB910 both have a GN of 34.

I have a SB910 which is not bad as flashes go but the things that annoy me a bit are that there are too many power settings - about 22 I think! I'm also not keen on the locking mechanism which uses a "switch" rather than a screw.

I also have an SB24 flash (which has a GN of 36) and it only has 5 power levels which is plenty for me! It also has a far better locking mechanism (screw not switch).

 

[Ste Manns]

Obviously lose HSS and other little things

Wooo Hoo.

That's one of the funniest things I've read all day.

Once you understand how to use your flashes properly you will know why, but for now I'll briefly explain. There is nothing whatsoever that you can do with a SB900 and your Canon camera, that you could not do with your 580EXII, in fact you have removed about 70% of the potential you had with the Canon flash for the sake of a bit better laid out menu. Reading the manual and other resources (like Syl Arena's blog and youtube videos, his book too) would have swiftly brought you up to scratch in this respect.

Ettl is fantastic when you know how to use it properly. Wireless Ettl is even more useful. Then there's HSS which is sublime. I often use my 580 on a ten metre Ettl cord as a key light and master, and other flashes as fill etc (and this is the interesting bit) in manual mode and all controlled from the LCD on my camera. It's easy and means I don't have to keep going over to each flash to adjust the power setting. If I want I can switch to Ettl or HSS in one or two clicks. I agree it wasn't as simple at first and I just didn't get it. A bit of research and experimentation and now I'd never go back to manual triggers unless I needed them for a specific reason

 

[specialman]

Boliston - what's the deal with the 900/910.... is the latter just an upgrade of certain functions or it is for all intents and purposes, a new flash? Not really sure why it was introduced other than to create another price point for flashguns.....

RE: the locking mechanism - I don't mind either, although in the cold the switch on the newer flashes is better than the thumbwheel on my SB28s.

 

[boliston]

Boliston - what's the deal with the 900/910.... is the latter just an upgrade of certain functions or it is for all intents and purposes, a new flash? Not really sure why it was introduced other than to create another price point for flashguns.....

RE: the locking mechanism - I don't mind either, although in the cold the switch on the newer flashes is better than the thumbwheel on my SB28s.

I'm pretty sure that the SB900 & SB910 are pretty similar, but they fixed the "shutdown bug" which affected the SB900. As the flash gets hotter it will increase the recycle time rather than shut the flash down altogether while it cools down. They have also redesigned the menu buttons a bit.

Regarding the locking mechanism, the newer "switch" style lock simply uses a small pin to keep the flash secure, but the older screw type lock actually creates a firmer bond between the flash and the hotshoe. I think there will always be a small amount of "play" with the switch type lock, but the screw type lock means there is effectively zero play.

 

[Flash In The Pan]

As the flash gets hotter it will increase the recycle time rather than shut the flash down altogether while it cools down.

What it actually does is just decrease the power, so whilst you may have it set at full power it's only giving you, say 3/4 (I don't know exactly by how much it actually reduces it by, that figure is just for illustrative purposes), but will keep on firing.

 

[boliston]

What it actually does is just decrease the power, so whilst you may have it set at full power it's only giving you, say 3/4 (I don't know exactly by how much it actually reduces it by, that figure is just for illustrative purposes), but will keep on firing.

Well that would be pretty annoying as the whole point of manual settings is to get consistency.
Is this "fix" actually officially tested/documented?

 

[kiteninja]

I was thinking the same thing.

He's gonna be completely buggered if he gets hold of a studio flash as for the life of me I can't see where it tells me the distance I have to put it from the subject.

That's one of the funniest things I've read all day.

Once you understand how to use your flashes properly you will know why, but for now I'll briefly explain. There is nothing whatsoever that you can do with a SB900 and your Canon camera, that you could not do with your 580EXII, in fact you have removed about 70% of the potential you had with the Canon flash for the sake of a bit better laid out menu. Reading the manual and other resources (like Syl Arena's blog and youtube videos, his book too) would have swiftly brought you up to scratch in this respect.

Ettl is fantastic when you know how to use it properly. Wireless Ettl is even more useful. Then there's HSS which is sublime. I often use my 580 on a ten metre Ettl cord as a key light and master, and other flashes as fill etc (and this is the interesting bit) in manual mode and all controlled from the LCD on my camera. It's easy and means I don't have to keep going over to each flash to adjust the power setting. If I want I can switch to Ettl or HSS in one or two clicks. I agree it wasn't as simple at first and I just didn't get it. A bit of research and experimentation and now I'd never go back to manual triggers unless I needed them for a specific reason

 

[strobemonkey]

maybe he's going to buy nikon camera next as canon camera's are carp

 

[jpwild]

I was thinking the same thing.

He's gonna be completely buggered if he gets hold of a studio flash as for the life of me I can't see where it tells me the distance I have to put it from the subject.

Already very happy with it, and with my possibly moving to Nikon camera soon I am already starting the switchover.

For you info: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4dp8aC6c5Y&feature=relmfu

In manual mode. Easy to change aperture, ISO, flash power and see how very all relate to recommended flash-to-subject distance. Obviously, overide that for creative purposes, but very helpful never the less.

Works off camera, and 580EXII doesn't work in this way as the SB900 does. Not knocking the 580EX II, personally, I already prefer the SB900.

Just to note, manual mode on the 580EX II off camera does not have an operating distance scale, and even if you do the custom function thing to go sort of manual with a distance scale it doesn't show you what flash power is available, which is just dumb.

Anyway, as I said, I am very, very happy already with the SB900, and bought it cheaper than I sold my 580EX II for. I wil be switching to a D700 or D800 in the coming months too, so yeah.

 

[HoppyUK]

Already very happy with it, and with my possibly moving to Nikon camera soon I am already starting the switchover.

For you info: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4dp8aC6c5Y&feature=relmfu

In manual mode. Easy to change aperture, ISO, flash power and see how very all relate to recommended flash-to-subject distance. Obviously, overide that for creative purposes, but very helpful never the less.

Works off camera, and 580EXII doesn't work in this way as the SB900 does. Not knocking the 580EX II, personally, I already prefer the SB900.

Just to note, manual mode on the 580EX II off camera does not have an operating distance scale, and even if you do the custom function thing to go sort of manual with a distance scale it doesn't show you what flash power is available, which is just dumb.

Anyway, as I said, I am very, very happy already with the SB900, and bought it cheaper than I sold my 580EX II for. I wil be switching to a D700 or D800 in the coming months too, so yeah.

When you take the flash off camera, or tilt the head away from the straight forward position, or use a diffuser accessory, there is no way the flash or camera has any idea of what range you'll get.

The power you have available is always up to max output, regardless, but the camera can only calculate range when it knows the flash is on camera and aiming directly at the subject. It uses the inverse square law to calculate, ie double the distance gives one quarter the light.

 

[Cistron]

For you info: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4dp8aC6c5Y&feature=relmfu

That poor wall. The last shot looks pretty nasty.

Are you aware that you can have all these simple manual f-stop/distance information on cheaper used Nikon flashes as well? SB- 24, 25, 26, 28, 80 should all do it. Off camera and with radio triggers the brand doesn't matter anyways.

I'm not quite sure why you'd want to swap all your expensive lenses just for the use of an SB-900, which a photographer uses in instruction videos to blast a door-frame. I'm not even sure why he had it off the camera, as he could have gotten exactly the same (flat) result with it being on the camera (even in TTL mode).

I hope I don't sound polemic. Apologies about that.

 

[jpwild]

That poor wall. The last shot looks pretty nasty.

Are you aware that you can have all these simple manual f-stop/distance information on cheaper used Nikon flashes as well? SB- 24, 25, 26, 28, 80 should all do it. Off camera and with radio triggers the brand doesn't matter anyways.

I'm not quite sure why you'd want to swap all your expensive lenses just for the use of an SB-900, which a photographer uses in instruction videos to blast a door-frame. I'm not even sure why he had it off the camera, as he could have gotten exactly the same (flat) result with it being on the camera (even in TTL mode).

I hope I don't sound polemic. Apologies about that.

I prefer the shot without the flash, but was just showing that the distance scale thing exists. Each to their own, but for me distance scale is useful Not knocking the 580EX II or Canon as great, but for me I already prefer the SB-900.

I am fliring with Nikon and if I do go there then the SB900 will be fine, and to be honest at some point this year I will most likely switch to Nikon. Shall see. If I do switch, it will not be for just flash reasons but other reasons such as FPS, bracketing and ISO.

Monies not that big of an issue. Hell, I could sell the SB900 in a few months and get a 580EX II again or a 866MK II. Not too fussed to be honest

 

[alexw9]

Have a look at the Nissin 866MkII before you go down that route, because it has all of those functions, although I'd be amazed if the 580 didn't as well.

Do you know if the Nissin works with RF-603's?

 

[Cistron]

Do you know if the Nissin works with RF-603's?

Mine did.

 

[alexw9]

Mine did.

Thanks.

 

[alexw9]

Mine did.

Hmmm... Can't get my Nissin Di866 mk II to work with my RF-603?


Anyone else know if this combination should work?

 

[Cistron]

Hmmm... Can't get my Nissin Di866 mk II to work with my RF-603?


Anyone else know if this combination should work?

I used the very same flashgun. Put it into manual mode and make sure the slave function is off. Also make sure that it isn't a problem with the transceivers - same channel, batteries, etc.

 

[alexw9]

I used the very same flashgun. Put it into manual mode and make sure the slave function is off. Also make sure that it isn't a problem with the transceivers - same channel, batteries, etc.

Thanks.

It started working after the trigger was pressed a few times so lets hope there's no more problems.

 

[NorthernNikon]

Well that would be pretty annoying as the whole point of manual settings is to get consistency.
Is this "fix" actually officially tested/documented?

It's not a fix because the original "issue" isn't an issue.

See my response in this thread for my explanation on how to avoid tripping the thermal cut-out.