Dumb Questions!

friesianfan69

friesianfan69

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Donna
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Im new to my canon 450D, I used it on basic mode really so far and not really messed with settings etc.
Im doing some pics at a horse show in couple of weeks for a friend so want to get it right.
Ill be using my Sigma 7-300 lens.
Im still unsure on shutter speed and aperture etc.
Ill be doing a few longer distance shots, am i best to work on sports mode in the motion pics?
What settings should i be looking at on i.e a dull day ? and a nice sunny day?
Sorry like i say im new to this so a bit dumb still.
ETA I have added some pics in the pets section ( two lots in fact ) feel free to critique
 
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Stick in in Av mode and set the aperture to f8, then adjust the ISO setting to get the shutter speed to 1/500s or faster. Don't be afraid to use a high ISO as it's easier to fix noise than to fix blur caused by slow shutter speed.
 
hollis_f said:
Stick in in Av mode and set the aperture to f8, then adjust the ISO setting to get the shutter speed to 1/500s or faster. Don't be afraid to use a high ISO as it's easier to fix noise than to fix blur caused by slow shutter speed.
Click to expand...

Will Av be ok if taking moving shots?
 
very much depends on the light available.

generally at equestrian events backgrounds are horrid so a wider aperture than the suggested f8 would be an idea. i always shoot in AV to control depth and background, adjust ISO to suit. as said i wouldnt really let the camera go slower than 500 or 640 on shutter speed otherwise youll start getting blurred legs and heads.

aim for the M shape of the legs.
 
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I would also go wider than the suggested f8 as the backgrounds can be very distracting and it would allow either a faster speed or lower iso.
 
Might have been better posted in the sports talk. I'd suggest you either set the camera to AV mode and choose the widest aperture, see what ss you get and adjust the ISO to get at least 1/500. Use centre spot/AI servo/multishot. Or, experiment with TV at 1/500 and adjust the ISO so you get a set f stop. Be prepared to experiment, review your images, change your settings. Personally, I would use Manual mode, but if you're not that confident, try one of the above methods.
 
neil_g said:
generally at equestrian events backgrounds are horrid so a wider aperture than the suggested f8 would be an idea.
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I suggested f8 as it'd be a lot more forgiving of poor focussing technique than a wider aperture. And we are talking about somebody new to dSLR operation.
 
hollis_f said:
I suggested f8 as it'd be a lot more forgiving of poor focussing technique than a wider aperture. And we are talking about somebody new to dSLR operation.
Click to expand...

thats fair enough :)

likewise i wouldnt necessarily shoot wide open unless you have to or want that effect for something. for side on shots it wont be too bad but for a head on shot it may make the horse in focus and the rider not (or visa-versa).
 
hollis_f said:
I suggested f8 as it'd be a lot more forgiving of poor focussing technique than a wider aperture. And we are talking about somebody new to dSLR operation.
Click to expand...

But best not to learn them poor technique or offer wrong/poor advice, the fact the OP is asking questions shows a willingness to learn so what better way than to teach them correctly. :thumbs:
 
Thankyou all very much, im self learning so all these ways are helpful.
I done some pics last night in AV on 1/400 iso found them a bit grainy if im honest.
Ill add a couple below
 
Here they are, not very clear cut at all, and quite grainy

IMG_9824.jpg


IMG_9867.jpg
 
I rarely shoot above ISO 200 - as you say 400 is very grainy

works well on urban shots though to give a building a gritty feel

Les :thumbs:

ps the above image explains all about dof- the horse is ok, the rider is out of focus a bit- may I ask what aperture you shot these at?
 
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Ok I got it f6.3

f8 or f11 would have been a better choice and lower the iso too as you shot that at ISO 1600 not iso 400

way too high hence the grain

Les :D
 
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Lez325 said:
I rarely shoot above ISO 200 - as you say 400 is very grainy

works well on urban shots though to give a building a gritty feel

Les :thumbs:

ps the above image explains all about dof- the horse is ok, the rider is out of focus a bit- may I ask what aperture you shot these at?
Click to expand...

f /6.3
Iso 1600
focal length 190mm
 
Lez325 said:
Ok I got it f6.3

f8 or f11 would have been a better choice and lower the iso too as you shot that at ISO 1600 not iso 400
Click to expand...

Neither suggestion is really an option for these shots. Going from f6.3 to f9 would be require a shutter speed of 1/80s. Combine that with an ISO drop to 400 (two stops ) and you end up with a shutter speed of 1/20s - nowhere near fast enough.

Donna, what all that means is - there just wasn't enough light available on that day to get perfect shots. The combination of parameters (aperture, shutter speed and ISO) you chose are very close to those I would have chosen under the same conditions. These are my thoughts on those parameters as they apply to this type of photography...

Shutter Speed: The most important of the three. Horses move and if your shutter speed is too slow that movement will cause blurring. For your first shot I'd really like to get shorter than 1/250s.

Aperture: The next most important, and probably the hardest to get used to. A small aperture will let in more light (thus enabling the desired shutter speed) but, as pointed out by Les's comment on your second shot, it can cause problems with depth of field.

ISO: The least important. Higher ISO values will increase noise. But if it's a choice between noise and motion blur I'll always choose noise. Noise can be fixed in post-processing, motion blur cannot.


Finally, two questions that may help.

1) Did you use a filter in either of those shots? Some people use a circular polariser all the time. It can help the look of some images, but it does reduce the light intensity so you shouldn't use one for these types of shots. More people use a UV or 'Protective' filter. Cheap ones can really ruin the clarity of a shot and should be removed and stamped on.

2) Do you do any processing of your images - specifically adjusting the tone and doing some sharpening. Because of their design all dSLRs will benefit from some sharpening. If you don't do any processing, what image parameters do you have set in the camera?
 
friesianfan69 said:
The iso, aperture and shutter speed still really confuse me!!:bonk:
Click to expand...

Hi Donna, do yourself a big, big favour and look on Amazon for a book called 'Understanding Exposure' by Bryan Peterson, it is an absolutely must have book for someone getting to grips with exposure problems.
 
Thankyou, i been looking at book and was opting for dlsr for dummies lol ( literarly in my case ) :D
Yes i do have a CHEAP uv lens filter on :(

So on if the weather is dull and im shooting moving horses what should my set up be?
Also if its a nice sunny day?

And the same if still pictures :thumbs:
My head is buzzing
 
hollis_f said:
Neither suggestion is really an option for these shots. Going from f6.3 to f9 would be require a shutter speed of 1/80s. Combine that with an ISO drop to 400 (two stops ) and you end up with a shutter speed of 1/20s - nowhere near fast enough.

Donna, what all that means is - there just wasn't enough light available on that day to get perfect shots. The combination of parameters (aperture, shutter speed and ISO) you chose are very close to those I would have chosen under the same conditions. These are my thoughts on those parameters as they apply to this type of photography...

Shutter Speed: The most important of the three. Horses move and if your shutter speed is too slow that movement will cause blurring. For your first shot I'd really like to get shorter than 1/250s.

Aperture: The next most important, and probably the hardest to get used to. A small aperture will let in more light (thus enabling the desired shutter speed) but, as pointed out by Les's comment on your second shot, it can cause problems with depth of field.

ISO: The least important. Higher ISO values will increase noise. But if it's a choice between noise and motion blur I'll always choose noise. Noise can be fixed in post-processing, motion blur cannot.


Finally, two questions that may help.

1) Did you use a filter in either of those shots? Some people use a circular polariser all the time. It can help the look of some images, but it does reduce the light intensity so you shouldn't use one for these types of shots. More people use a UV or 'Protective' filter. Cheap ones can really ruin the clarity of a shot and should be removed and stamped on.

2) Do you do any processing of your images - specifically adjusting the tone and doing some sharpening. Because of their design all dSLRs will benefit from some sharpening. If you don't do any processing, what image parameters do you have set in the camera?
Click to expand...

Where is the processing? Do you mean like Adobe etc?
And no idea what Parameters are? Told you i was total novice
 
hollis_f said:
...

Aperture: The next most important, and probably the hardest to get used to. A small aperture will let in more light (thus enabling the desired shutter speed) but, as pointed out by Les's comment on your second shot, it can cause problems with depth of field.
...
Click to expand...

A small aperture will let in less light and will give more depth of field.
A small aperture number will let in more light.
Think of f/8, f/4 etc as fractions: f/8 is smaller than f/4 the same way that 1/8 is smaller than 1/4.
 
friesianfan69 said:
....So if the weather is dull and im shooting moving horses what should my set up be?
Click to expand...

That is a question that can only be answered on the day.

Are they walking, trotting, cantering, galloping?.

Are they coming towards you or going across you (left to right or vice versa)?

With dull do you mean overcast days, cloudy, black rain clouds?

There are a lot of factors that decide, so to give you a setting is almost impossible.

I shoot a lot of rugby. Now imagine its a nice sunny summers afternoon. I set my camera to 'Aperture Priority' A or AV.

I know that to freeze the action I need a Shutter Speed of 1/640 sec or higher. So I set my aperture to f/2.8 and then adjust my ISO so that my camera tells me that my shutter speed is 640, and away we go.

Now, the sun goes in and over come the dark rain clouds. I am still set at f/2.8 but to keep my shutter speed at 640 or higher I have to adjust my ISO. So with the sun out my ISO may be 100 or 200, but now it has got darker I will have to up my ISO to say 800 to give me my 640 shutter speed.

So you see there is no set setting it all depends on the conditions on the day.
 
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Thankyou it is still helpful.
Will be side ways and some angling towards me.
My lens is not allowing me to go below f4.0
Also so when would i use sports mode?
 
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When you get to understand more...believe me you will :thumbs:....you will see that with objects coming towards you you wont need as much shutter speed as you would if they are moving from side to side.

Also don't be afraid to 'experiment', there are no hard and fast rules in photography.

If you want to see what sports mode does then try it, simple as that.

I got my D5000 about a year ago and the first time I used it was at The Emirates stadium (Arsenal) and as I had not done a lot of photography for many years I thought stuff it I'm going to put it in sports mode and they came out great I was well pleased, so dont be afraid to try it.

Next time you go out to photograph the horses, take say the first 25 in sports mode and then the rest in normal mode and compare them when you get home.
 
AFC said:
When you get to understand more...believe me you will :thumbs:....you will see that with objects coming towards you you wont need as much shutter speed as you would if they are moving from side to side.

Also don't be afraid to 'experiment', there are no hard and fast rules in photography.

If you want to see what sports mode does then try it, simple as that.

I got my D5000 about a year ago and the first time I used it was at The Emirates stadium (Arsenal) and as I had not done a lot of photography for many years I thought stuff it I'm going to put it in sports mode and they came out great I was well pleased, so dont be afraid to try it.

Next time you go out to photograph the horses, take say the first 25 in sports mode and then the rest in normal mode and compare them when you get home.
Click to expand...

I'd love to see your first photos from the Emirates!:cool:
 
Davo7 said:
I'd love to see your first photos from the Emirates!:cool:
Click to expand...

I bet you wouldn't :lol:.

I was not there as a press photographer, but they were taken from the stands during the Emirates Cup - Milan, Celtic, Lyon and the Gooners.

Give me a minute and I will send you a PM.
 
AFC said:
When you get to understand more...believe me you will :thumbs:....you will see that with objects coming towards you you wont need as much shutter speed as you would if they are moving from side to side.

Also don't be afraid to 'experiment', there are no hard and fast rules in photography.

If you want to see what sports mode does then try it, simple as that.

I got my D5000 about a year ago and the first time I used it was at The Emirates stadium (Arsenal) and as I had not done a lot of photography for many years I thought stuff it I'm going to put it in sports mode and they came out great I was well pleased, so dont be afraid to try it.

Next time you go out to photograph the horses, take say the first 25 in sports mode and then the rest in normal mode and compare them when you get home.
Click to expand...

Oh god not more Arsenal fans lol, im sure my hubby would love to see them to!
Ive used sports mode quiet a lot, but often get a blur on either the rider face or the horse, probably wrong settings but you guys are fab and ive learnt lots today..thankyou.
Seeing as my Sigma 70-300 wont go lower the F4.0 what should i do?
 
friesianfan69 said:
Oh god not more Arsenal fans lol, im sure my hubby would love to see them to!
Ive used sports mode quiet a lot, but often get a blur on either the rider face or the horse, probably wrong settings but you guys are fab and ive learnt lots today..thankyou.
Seeing as my Sigma 70-300 wont go lower the F4.0 what should i do?
Click to expand...

It has nothing to do with your lens only F/4 it is your shutter speed that is to slow.

I use a Nikon 70-200 f/2.8 as I need the extra light for the low light conditions on dark winter afternoons under floodlights.

So what you need to do is to ensure that your shutter speed is set to say a minimum of 1/500 sec to start with then take a few shots and see how this looks and if it needs to be more then you will have to up the speed.

Its going to be trial and error at the moment till you can find out what your shutter speeds need to be, with me I know for rugby I need a minimum of 640 to freeze the action.

So I have never photographed horses, so if this was me I would start by putting my camera in 'Aperture Priority' (A/AV) mode and set my aperture to f/4, and I would try using a shutter speed (SS) of 500.

So I then aim at my target and adjust my ISO until my SS read 500. Now if you need to have a faster SS then all you need to change is your ISO to get the SS you require.
 
I shoot quite a lot of equestrian stuff - and it's difficult, so don't expect perfect results until you've messed up a whole lot of shots, just as the rest of us have when starting out!

For a start, the dressage pony you posted has the perfect `M legs` shape. This is just what most people want, so a good beginning!

To add to lots of good advice above, I shoot dressage on single shot rather than burst. You can find a shooting rhythm that fits the rhythm of the horse. You take a shot with every pace of the animal. With practice, you will get good `M legs` most of the time, used less memory and have less editing to do to get rid of the duds.

Actually, I often shoot show jumpers on single shot as well. The shots people tend to like are with the front legs well tucked up, hooves together, as they cross the jump, and again you can judge the moment pretty accurately with practice.

Cluttered backgrounds can be a problem, but if you wander around you can usually find a clear bit - although this may well have an official photographer already there! Best not to stand in front of him/her...

I go along with aperture priority in most cases, although I rarely shoot at less than 1,000th/sec, commonly at around f/5.6. I appreciate that this may be difficult with a camera that is noisy at high ISO, but in decent light you should be OK. (And I always have a uv filter fitted to protect the lens! Anyone want a fight?:D)

Re processing and so forth: You can set your camera to add sharpening to each image, as well as added colour saturation and lots of other stuff - have a look at the manual.

As for when to use `sports` mode: NEVER!!! Total waste of time if you want to learn photography, as are all the other `modes`. Manual, AV & TV will do for around 95% of all photography (insert another fight here...).

Finally, are you shooting at high quality? If you have a low quality setting, this will show in the results. RAW is best (and no harder to learn to use than any other aspect of photography), but you will need to spend more time in post-production to get nice results. Highest quality jpeg is a good place to start - again, see your camera manual.

Edit to add: Looking at the data on your posted shot, it seems you are indeed shooting at a lower quality than your camera is capable of - about 6 MB rather than the 12 MB you can get. This will make quite a difference to the quality of your shots when you enlarge them.
 
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AFC said:
It has nothing to do with your lens only F/4 it is your shutter speed that is to slow.

I use a Nikon 70-200 f/2.8 as I need the extra light for the low light conditions on dark winter afternoons under floodlights.

So what you need to do is to ensure that your shutter speed is set to say a minimum of 1/500 sec to start with then take a few shots and see how this looks and if it needs to be more then you will have to up the speed.

Its going to be trial and error at the moment till you can find out what your shutter speeds need to be, with me I know for rugby I need a minimum of 640 to freeze the action.

So I have never photographed horses, so if this was me I would start by putting my camera in 'Aperture Priority' (A/AV) mode and set my aperture to f/4, and I would try using a shutter speed (SS) of 500.

So I then aim at my target and adjust my ISO until my SS read 500. Now if you need to have a faster SS then all you need to change is your ISO to get the SS you require.
Click to expand...

I see thankyou
 
My shutter speed is going up and down as i focus...so how do i set it to a certain number?
 
Welcome aboard Jon at last an equestrian photographer. :thumbs:

I must admit I would say never use sports mode but it doesn't hurt to experiment with these things.
 
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AFC said:
Welcome aboard Jon at last an equestrian photographer. :thumbs:

I must admit I would say never use sports mode but it doesn't hurt to experiment with these things.
Click to expand...

This is what i am aiming to be, Equine photographer
 
friesianfan69 said:
My shutter speed is going up and down as i focus...so how do i set it to a certain number?
Click to expand...

When you say 'focus' are you talking about focusing or moving your zoom.

Also is your camera in A/AV mode?
 
jon ryan said:
I shoot quite a lot of equestrian stuff - and it's difficult, so don't expect perfect results until you've messed up a whole lot of shots, just as the rest of us have when starting out!

For a start, the dressage pony you posted has the perfect `M legs` shape. This is just what most people want, so a good beginning!

To add to lots of good advice above, I shoot dressage on single shot rather than burst. You can find a shooting rhythm that fits the rhythm of the horse. You take a shot with every pace of the animal. With practice, you will get good `M legs` most of the time, used less memory and have less editing to do to get rid of the duds.

Actually, I often shoot show jumpers on single shot as well. The shots people tend to like are with the front legs well tucked up, hooves together, as they cross the jump, and again you can judge the moment pretty accurately with practice.

Cluttered backgrounds can be a problem, but if you wander around you can usually find a clear bit - although this may well have an official photographer already there! Best not to stand in front of him/her...

I go along with aperture priority in most cases, although I rarely shoot at less than 1,000th/sec, commonly at around f/5.6. I appreciate that this may be difficult with a camera that is noisy at high ISO, but in decent light you should be OK. (And I always have a uv filter fitted to protect the lens! Anyone want a fight?:D)

Re processing and so forth: You can set your camera to add sharpening to each image, as well as added colour saturation and lots of other stuff - have a look at the manual.

As for when to use `sports` mode: NEVER!!! Total waste of time if you want to learn photography, as are all the other `modes`. Manual, AV & TV will do for around 95% of all photography (insert another fight here...).

Finally, are you shooting at high quality? If you have a low quality setting, this will show in the results. RAW is best (and no harder to learn to use than any other aspect of photography), but you will need to spend more time in post-production to get nice results. Highest quality jpeg is a good place to start - again, see your camera manual.
Click to expand...

Thankyou Jon.
I have it set on High Quality all the time.
Ive not seen anything in my manual about processing etc, ill look again.
It is equine photography i am aiming to do, I have my own horse i practise on as she is so photogenic :love: And im familar of what are decent poses for horses so i suppose i have a head start there...lol need one somewhere.
Ive added pics i took last year at a show of my own horse.

AshwellShowAugust2010127.jpg


Kidsxlesson7114.jpg


AshwellShowAugust2010024.jpg
 
What happens is your camera meters off of what you are aiming at, so if you aim at a horse that is dark brown it may show you for example f/4, 1/500 sec at ISO 400 then if you point your camera at the sky your SS will shoot up to say well over 1000 or 2000.

Its ok to go over but not under the speed you need.

It probably all sounds gobblygook at the moment but get the Understand Exposure as it is so easy to understand and will answer all the points you have been asking about today and it gives you some excersises to practice with.
 
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AFC said:
Welcome aboard Jon at last an equestrian photographer. :thumbs:

I must admit I would say never use sports mode but it doesn't hurt to experiment with these things.
Click to expand...

Hi AFC, try not to worry about the Arsenal thing, you can get therapy:lol:

The reason I'm against these `modes` is that they allow the camera to decide what settings to make. Occasionally, in perfect conditions, they maybe right and you end up with a cracking shot. But the thing is you won't know why it was perfect. I always suggest to my students that they work in manual until they are familiar with what making a change will do. Then move on to AV, TV and even the more auto stuff if that floats your boat.

By doing it this way,you will have a good chance of knowing why you missed the shot of Elvis riding Shergar to a clear round because you let the camera decide what was the right exposure to set.

Experiment by all means. Just don't let it grow into a habit.
 
friesianfan69 said:
This is what i am aiming to be, Equine photographer
Click to expand...

Good luck!

Whatever sort of photography you plan to get into, the fundamentals are the same:

The relationship between shutter, aperture and ISO.

The rest follows from that.
 
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