DSLR: should I sell or should I not

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Pietrach

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Hi all
Here is my dilemt that i have for last year or so. I love my DSLR and the photos I am able to take with it. I used to have time for myself and enjoy it few times a week. Since we had a little boy 2 years ago the camera pretty much stays in the cupboard, or at least on top of the cupboard and limited to occasional photos at home.It is big, bulky and heavy and I dont take it with me for a family walks etc. On the other hand, I am not satisfied with a standard point and shoot compact camera, primarily due to no ability to achieve a shallow depth of field.
As such my plan now is to sell the DSLR and but something tat fulfills the following:
- up to £450 (either new or second hand)
- small enough to fit in a pocket ( a large pocket?)
- capable of taking sharp photographs (comparable to DSLR with a kit lens)
- with a large enough sensor to be able to achieve nice bokeh shooting at equivalent of 50mm
- zoom equivalent to 18-50mm

So far I wasinterested in Sony RX100 but I am notsure if sensor is big enough for shallow depth of field.
I also considered Sony NEX 5 or 6 but I am not sure how heavy and big it is with 18-50mm lens (looks almost dslr size on photos)

I am ok with either interchangeable or fixed lens. What is there on offer?

Regards
 
M43, smallest lenses available.

EPL5 perhaps or a Panasonic G if you want a VF.
 
The biggest problem with all small sensors (other than their high pixel density usually making them a bit noisy) is the lack of shallow DoF. Combine their natural DoF with (usually) narrow aperture lenses (when compared to those available for SLRs) and you'll see why many people keep the SLRs when downsizing.
 
Nod said:
The biggest problem with all small sensors (other than their high pixel density usually making them a bit noisy) is the lack of shallow DoF. Combine their natural DoF with (usually) narrow aperture lenses (when compared to those available for SLRs) and you'll see why many people keep the SLRs when downsizing.
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I think this comment mainly applies to compact cameras and not CSCs like Fuji, Sony, M43.
 
It applies to all smaller sensors.
 
ryanyboy: that was badly phrased. I did use it as much as I could / as much as was practically reasonable. But for every 1 outing with a DSLR, there is 5 others where it is not practical to take one with me. I do have 1000s of photosos him ,but I would have bigger variety if I could take have the camera in the pocket ready wheneverI wish to.
 
Pietrach said:
ryanyboy: that was badly phrased. I did use it as much as I could / as much as was practically reasonable. But for every 1 outing with a DSLR, there is 5 others where it is not practical to take one with me. I do have 1000s of photosos him ,but I would have bigger variety if I could take have the camera in the pocket ready wheneverI wish to.
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The best camera is the one you have on you at the time ;).....if you're finding the size is stopping you using it then a high end compact is a much better option. Personally I would look at a fuji x20 for your budget. I have to admit I've found using a smaller camera incredibly liberating
 
I'd go with a fuji X20 as well. I had the x10 which was a fantastic compromise when the DSLR is too big.

LX7 gives nice DOF at close distances but...it's a bit more fiddly to use. The X10/20 is just fantastic to use with it's manual zoom.
 
- with a large enough sensor to be able to achieve nice bokeh shooting at equivalent of 50mm

You arent going to get what youre used to from your DSLR with a X20 in terms of shallow DOF unless youre right in front of your subject or the background is miles away to create that separation, sensor is to small.
 
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Pietrach said:
ryanyboy: that was badly phrased. I did use it as much as I could / as much as was practically reasonable. But for every 1 outing with a DSLR, there is 5 others where it is not practical to take one with me. I do have 1000s of photosos him ,but I would have bigger variety if I could take have the camera in the pocket ready wheneverI wish to.
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Got you. Glad to hear the little chap has been papped :D
 
Thank you all.
Thanks Twist - addictive website :)
And what are your thoughts about Sony NEX 5? I like fuji x20 and its controls but looks still too big for a coat pocket for example. Does NEX 5 offers quick setting changes? My wife uses Auto and I normally use Aperture Priority and play with ISO quite often.
 
twist said:
So whats 'a smaller sensor'? Most DSLRs have an APSC sensor.
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The smaller the sensor, the greater the depth of field for a given focal length and f/stop. Compared to an FF sensor an APS-C sensor has greater DoF and even an FF DSLR (or 35mm film frame) has greater DoF than MF which has greater DoF than 5x4 which... 10x8. Laws of physics. If you want shallow DoF, the bigger the sensor the better.
 
Nod said:
The smaller the sensor, the greater the depth of field for a given focal length and f/stop. Compared to an FF sensor an APS-C sensor has greater DoF and even an FF DSLR (or 35mm film frame) has greater DoF than MF which has greater DoF than 5x4 which... 10x8. Laws of physics. If you want shallow DoF, the bigger the sensor the better.
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Yes I know that, my question was what size you think a small sensor is, not how wikipedia classifies sensor sizes. If the OP is used to his (more than likely) APSC sensor how would he see any difference in shallow DOF by using a CSC with an APSC sensor, they also have fast lenses you know.
 
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Nod said:
The smaller the sensor, the greater the depth of field for a given focal length and f/stop. Compared to an FF sensor an APS-C sensor has greater DoF and even an FF DSLR (or 35mm film frame) has greater DoF than MF which has greater DoF than 5x4 which... 10x8. Laws of physics. If you want shallow DoF, the bigger the sensor the better.
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But you can't talk about "smaller" in the context of this thread without knowing if the OP currently has an APS or APS-C sensor DSLR.

In generic terms what you say is true - but we don't know relevant it is to this situation until the OP says what his current DSLR is.

If his current camera is APS-C (more DSLRs are APS-C than APS), then either Sony NEX or Fuji X will be effectively the same size as his current sensor and will give the expected DOF.
 
Profile page shows Pentax K40D...
 
Pietrach said:
Thank you all.
Thanks Twist - addictive website :)
And what are your thoughts about Sony NEX 5? I like fuji x20 and its controls but looks still too big for a coat pocket for example. Does NEX 5 offers quick setting changes? My wife uses Auto and I normally use Aperture Priority and play with ISO quite often.
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Sony NEX is a good camera and has most bases covered now with decent kit lenses and fast primes, the sensor is APSC which is the same size as your Pentax. What you need to do is also check camera sizes with lenses included.

The various NEXs have different controls, the NEX6 being the nicest imo, it also has a very good electric viewfinder. Body and lens should run you £450 used.

See this pic, the black dial on top at the right is like your DSLR dial it changes modes (auto/aperture/shutter/scenes etc), the silver bit under that turns and you can change aperture or shutter speed with it. See the pad on the right, thats labelled (iso etc) or you can customise it. Red button is video recording. The 2 round buttons are programmable function buttons.

nex6_rear.jpg
 
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Within budget is the Fuji X-M1 with 16-50mm lens (£450), and until 31st March there's a free 50-230mm lens as well.

Whilst that lens combination won't give you fast lens bokeh, it gives you the option of adding a faster prime lens later (the 35/1.4 is a very nice lens).
 
Alastair said:
But you can't talk about "smaller" in the context of this thread without knowing if the OP currently has an APS or APS-C sensor DSLR.

In generic terms what you say is true - but we don't know relevant it is to this situation until the OP says what his current DSLR is.

If his current camera is APS-C (more DSLRs are APS-C than APS), then either Sony NEX or Fuji X will be effectively the same size as his current sensor and will give the expected DOF.
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While this is true, as is Ken's observation about the OP using a Pentax APS-C body, most CSCs and compacts have smaller than APS-C sensors as well as lenses far slower than those available for SLRs. There are exceptions (assorted Fuji XF mount lenses spring to mind) but they're a little over his stated budget.
 
Nod said:
While this is true, as is Ken's observation about the OP using a Pentax APS-C body, most CSCs and compacts have smaller than APS-C sensors as well as lenses far slower than those available for SLRs. There are exceptions (assorted Fuji XF mount lenses spring to mind) but they're a little over his stated budget.
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Rubbish. Sony APSC, Fuji APSC, Canon APSC, Samsung APSC. The only manufacturer I listed that doesnt have a variety of fast primes out of those is Canon. M43 also has a huge amount of fast primes and shallow DOF is easily achieved with the correct lens.
 
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You're forgetting the Sony FF...
 
Nod said:
While this is true, as is Ken's observation about the OP using a Pentax APS-C body, most CSCs and compacts have smaller than APS-C sensors as well as lenses far slower than those available for SLRs. There are exceptions (assorted Fuji XF mount lenses spring to mind) but they're a little over his stated budget.
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Nod.. I eagerly await your own (within budget) suggestion.. time to s*** or get off the pot..
 
Nod said:
You're forgetting the Sony FF...
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What point are you trying to make besides causing confusion for the OP? Im not forgetting anything, Ive owned it.
 
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Pietrach said:
I like fuji x20 and its controls but looks still too big for a coat pocket for example.
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Depends on the coat. The X10 squeezes into the pocket of my fleece jacket and goes easily into a (bellows) pocket of my waterproof jacket.
 
Alastair said:
Nod.. I eagerly await your own (within budget) suggestion.. time to tummymud or get off the pot..
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Given the OP's requirements are
- up to £450 (either new or second hand)
- small enough to fit in a pocket ( a large pocket?)
- capable of taking sharp photographs (comparable to DSLR with a kit lens)
- with a large enough sensor to be able to achieve nice bokeh shooting at equivalent of 50mm
- zoom equivalent to 18-50mm
I'm not sure what is available. Unfortunately the perfect kit doesn't exist - I wish it did! A V1 fits the first 3 but the final 2 are the killers at the given budget.

As Ed's just said, the X-20 (same size as the X-10) is a bit of a squeeze in a fleece pocket but will go in a bigger one. My choice of decent compact for the pocket is it's older but smaller cousin, the XF-1. However, that doesn't meet the bottom 2 requirements.

I've considered the Fuji CSCs but since I've already got the Nikon(s) and the adaptor to use my SLR lenses on them, I don't really want yet another system.
 
Nex 5 with 18-55 - 180 quid
50mm 1.8 oss - 130 quid

Apsc sensor. Coat pocket size. Shallow dof. WELL under 450. Done.
 
Pietrach said:
thank you all again. After all the advice and a bit of reading i am inclining towards second hand NEX 6 with 16-50mm lens. any owners here?
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Yep.
Great camera. You can use so many different lenses with it, with adaptors
 
I sold all my A-Mount gear at the start of this month for E-mount gear. I'm getting the same sensor (16mp), 1/3 of the size, 1/3 of the weight, a decent selection of lenses (8mm up to 200mm), a better viewfinder, same general performance, better video, etc.

I bought my first NEX when it was released, there was only 3 lenses (A crap 16mm, an average 18-55 and a weird 35mm 3.5 prime), now you have a good range of lenses, especially primes. I've been able to replace my favourite A-mounts with E-mounts. The Sigma trio of 19mm, 30mm and 60mm are all individually priced under £130 first hand, the 50mm 1.8 oss, the 35mm 1.8 oss, 24mm 1.8 and the Zeiss Toiuts (Spelling?!). There's even a few 'walk around' zooms added since I rejoined - The Zeiss 16-70 F4, the 18-105mm f4 and the 16-50 power zoom.

Ps - Not to send you on a wild goose chase - but I noticed you were in Glasgow. I picked up a Sony NEX 5R with 18-55 for £199 last month from PC World/Curry's in Finnieston, I was told they were trying to clear them out for the NEX 5T. As I say, that was a month ago and they may have sold them all, might be worth a look?
 
I am a NEX 7 user/shooter of about two years now. I really love mine and the 6 isnt to much different. It actually has cleaner high ISO noise then my 7. Click on the link in my sig below and you can view my NEX 7 set on flickr. Also look at the Speedbooster set. The SB can give old legacy lenses their original field of view back and basically turn your NEX 6 into a full frame camera. Probably out of the budget now, but worth a look down the road.

The NEX 6 is fully capable of giving you DSLR quality images. Which is a bit of a misnomer...there is nothing special about DSLR images. Lets just say that Mirrorless cameras are just like any other type of camera, and in the hands of an experienced photographer they are capable of producing world class images.
 
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