DSLR or ML technical questions

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Skypilot

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Probably dumb questions so apologies for that.
Looking to upgrade my 12 yr old Nikon DSLR

Several things attracted me to mirrorless cameras .
1 ; Their ability to show on the rear screen what you will get. Also ability for fine tuning the focus by zooming in and the ability to alter exposure etc using the histogram via the screen.
2 ; Also like the silent shutter.

After having a bit of hands on with Nikon Z7 I found it uncomfortable for me having the extra small size body and buttons and handling after years using DSLRs.
I'm now wondering if I could get most of the mirrorless features without the dinky size issues.

Questions are;
Can't DSLR do these things?
I suppose completely silent shutter isn't possibly but what about the LCD display features that are touted as selling points of MLs
 
Skypilot said:
Can't DSLR do these things?
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Sort of, but often not so well because they're designed around the OVF and require mirror lock up to do them.

Skypilot said:
I suppose completely silent shutter isn't possibly but what about the LCD display features that are touted as selling points of MLs
Click to expand...

The EVF is a selling point, but the LCD rear screen is not.

Skypilot said:
After having a bit of hands on with Nikon Z7 I found it uncomfortable for me having the extra small size body and buttons and handling after years using DSLRs.
Click to expand...

You could try it with a grip.
 
Having come from the age of fully manual film SLRs, I welcomed the advent of mirrorless systems that are much the same size as an old SLR and now use a Fuji system far more than the FF Nikon DSLRs I also still own. Took a few minutes to become reacquainted with the smaller bodies but despite having hands like hams, I don't feel at all cramped around them, even without grips.
 
Skypilot said:
Can't DSLR do these things?
I suppose completely silent shutter isn't possibly but what about the LCD display features that are touted as selling points of MLs
Click to expand...

I suspect the D780 is about as close as you can get to this. In summary, this gives you an updated Nikon D750 when you use the Optical Viewfinder, and almost a Nikon Z6 when you use the rear screen.
 
Yes my DSLR has live view and I can zoom and focus using the touch screen. I have no idea whether I can alter the exposure using the histogram but would not use this feature if it is there. The histogram relates to the JPEG image and I am only interested in Raw. I use decades of experience to determine exposure by using the most appropriate Auto setting with or without compensation or by choosing manual. While the DSLR does not have an EVF, I do have a Bridge camera with EVF and it is not bad at all. A ML will probably be quieter but this has not been an issue for me.

Dave
 
Look at Olympus ,either the omd1-mk2 or 3 or the bigger E.MiX .. the latter would probably suit you .. totally silent shutter if required but even the normal one is quiet ,lightning fast A.F ,and 15 + FPS if needed . .plus cameras and lenses are all lightweight and a lot cheaper than Nikon
 
Mirrorless cameras come in all shapes and sizes these days to the point that from a handling point of view it's not really about mirrorless vs DSLR anymore and very much more camera specific. Of the mirrorless stuff I've picked up, I'd say it's worth looking at the Panasonic G9 and S1 and the Olympus E-M1's have really nice grips too.
 
Late last year I went from canon 1DX and 5Dmk4 to Sony A9 and A7ii. They are small cameras, for me a little too small to make them comfortable. Adding a battery grip really does improve the handling in my opinion. I think the Panasonic S1 is the only large mirrorless out there. When I work I use the grips, when out for pleasure i take them off and with the right lens you have a very compact package.
 
Nod said:
Having come from the age of fully manual film SLRs, I welcomed the advent of mirrorless systems that are much the same size as an old SLR and now use a Fuji system far more than the FF Nikon DSLRs I also still own. Took a few minutes to become reacquainted with the smaller bodies but despite having hands like hams, I don't feel at all cramped around them, even without grips.
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Yup. Reading stuff on line about cameras being too small I do wonder when this need for larger cameras started but there are possibly some real issues for some people these days for example with some lenses which are bigger than their film age counterparts and may cause handing issues such as getting fingers between the grip and the lens. Also these days we can have more buttons too which can be fiddly but being honest we don't need to constantly use all the buttons all of the time. Overall I'd expect real issues to be few and far between and limited to a small number of people and kit combinations.
 
woof woof said:
Also these days we can have more buttons too which can be fiddly but being honest we don't need to constantly use all the buttons all of the time.
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That's why I like the X-T and X-H bodies so much. They handle much like an "old" film SLR and once set up need very little button pushing - most things that need relatively frequent adjustment can be done using a dial atop the body or a control wheel.
 
With my cameras I use auto ISO and aperture mostly but switch to manual when the light drops. I also have two custom modes, one for aperture and one for manual, set for a wide aperture, wide area focus and face detect. With the camera set like this I use the top dials for aperture, shutter and exposure compensation and the mode dial to select aperture, manual or custom and that's pretty much it when it comers to controls unless I want to switch from evaluative to spot or something like that.
 
I highly rate the Nikon D810 so worth checking out . I have had a few Nikon DSLR cameras and this is the best yet within my price range. There are still a few "grey" new ones about.
of course you need good lenses to go with it. The biggest change ,even from the D800, is the camera does not have an AA filter. It took a bit of getting used to as it is more precise ? in the photo results, and better for it. The video side has also improved if that is of interest.
Oh I still have the D300 so can do a direct comparison and the D810 knocks the D300 into the ball park.
 
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One thing to remember with the Sony A7iii and I believe other mirrorless cameras. The silent mode works great in natural light but you have to be very careful under artificial light, with some crazy banding in photographs. If you match the shutter with the lights refresh rate it can help but I found this to be a major problem with the A7iii. This led me to the Sony A9 which has a stacked sensor and works great under artificial light. I have not used other makes of mirrorless so maybe others can confirm it's the same. I shoot lots of weddings 50-60 a year, so silent shooting durning the service which is often inside, is amazing which is why I went with a A9 as my main camera. As for size both my A7iii and A9 feel much better with a grip.
 
Skypilot said:
Probably dumb questions so apologies for that.
Looking to upgrade my 12 yr old Nikon DSLR

Several things attracted me to mirrorless cameras .
1 ; Their ability to show on the rear screen what you will get. Also ability for fine tuning the focus by zooming in and the ability to alter exposure etc using the histogram via the screen.
2 ; Also like the silent shutter.

After having a bit of hands on with Nikon Z7 I found it uncomfortable for me having the extra small size body and buttons and handling after years using DSLRs.
I'm now wondering if I could get most of the mirrorless features without the dinky size issues.

Questions are;
Can't DSLR do these things?
I suppose completely silent shutter isn't possibly but what about the LCD display features that are touted as selling points of MLs
Click to expand...

I'm not against Mirrorless, whatever floats your boat, it's just that for me, I prefer DSLRs. I'm happy to keep using DSLRs because I find them better to hold and use than other type of cameras.

While DSLRs don't have silent shutter, many of them can have a mirror lock up to help cut down on the noise. The mirror inside the DSLRs is the major source of noise, they're the ones that makes the biggest loud noise, with them locked up, you could cut down the noise to only the shutter that makes little noise than the mirror does.

While a Mirrorless can do things a DSLR can't do, you should consider what can a DSLR do that a Mirrorless can't do. Although batteries have improved a lot, Mirrorless cameras still use more power, as they have to display what the camera sees on the LCD screen, so you've got your LCD screen turned on almost all the time when taking photos. DSLRs, on the other hand, don't need to use the LCD, you just view through the viewfinder. Granted you may want to preview the photo, use histogram, and the likes, but I would image that for a photojournalist in a war zone, they don't have time to preview the images, just turn off the LCD and get on with taking photos. With the LCD turned off, you could try to squeeze as much power out of the battery for a few extra shoots.
 
Major Eazy said:
but I would image that for a photojournalist in a war zone, they don't have time to preview the images,
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Hands up everyone here who's a photojournalist in a war zone... :tumbleweed:
 
The D 810 has a quiet shutter actuation setting which cuts out most of the noise
 
I have the Nikon D600, and Z6. Both fantastic cameras. One significant advantage I've found with the Z6, is that the EVF gives you a much brighter (enhanced) image in the viewfinder, when in really low light situations. And the AF is much better in those. Tbh I prefer the ergonomics of the D600, especially with the MDB14 grip and bigger lenses. Battery life is better because no EVF. Larger body means more controls easy to hand, not buried away in menus. The Z6 isn't bad for that though, compared to most other brands I've seen. The Z6 is the better camera because it's technology is 6 years newer. The smaller size is a bonus for travelling and just taking out and about. Doesn't look as 'pro' as the DSLR. It is quieter, and the silent mode really is silent. I don't like it; I am used to the confirmation of a shutter sound. But it's been useful a couple of times.

I bought the Z6 as a smaller, lighter alternative to my D600, to replace a D3300 which I always found a bit 'lacking'. The Z6 has been an upgrade to the D600, no question. With the current Nikon lineup, if I were buying from scratch, I'd go for the Z6 over any DSLR. Suits my needs almost perfectly (add a vertical control grip and it would be perfect imo).
 
Dave Canon said:
Yes my DSLR has live view and I can zoom and focus using the touch screen. I have no idea whether I can alter the exposure using the histogram but would not use this feature if it is there. The histogram relates to the JPEG image and I am only interested in Raw. I use decades of experience to determine exposure by using the most appropriate Auto setting with or without compensation or by choosing manual. While the DSLR does not have an EVF, I do have a Bridge camera with EVF and it is not bad at all. A ML will probably be quieter but this has not been an issue for me.

Dave
Click to expand...

Histogram is for RAW shooting as well. It's an exposure aid, nothing more (unless you use a colour histogram(which still works in RAW)).
 
GreenNinja67 said:
Histogram is for RAW shooting as well. It's an exposure aid, nothing more (unless you use a colour histogram(which still works in RAW)).
Click to expand...

I have just checked and I can show a small histogram in live view and you can manually adjust the exposure and see the histogram move. However, I still would not use this on my DSLR as it is still a camera rendering from the Raw file based on the JPEG settings so will not be a reliable representation of what my Raw files may produce in LR. You cannot have a histogram of a Raw file only a currently rendered version. It is feasible that one could nevertheless use this display to aid an exposure setting but I would not be able to use it for any more than a rough guide which is all I use the non-live version of the histogram for. Each must develop their own skills at exposure setting and I cannot remember that last time I had a mistake with a DSLR exposure setting other than the obvious such as a flash not firing. If I have any doubt about capturing the full dynamic range of the subject I take multiple exposures which may at least ensure I can get the correct image..

Dave
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
Hands up everyone here who's a photojournalist in a war zone... :tumbleweed:
Click to expand...
He was just giving an example
I’ve been out and about in the middle of nowhere with no access to power for charging so had to take lots of batteries
 
I have both (Olympus m4/3) mirrorless and (Canon FF) DSLR. What hasn’t been mentioned and that I really love about mirrorless, is being able to preview my images and navigate the menu through the viewfinder without having to put my glasses on.

I rarely have to change a battery on my Olympus when I’m out, but normally I only use the viewfinder.
 
As for battery life; The Z6 had a rating of 320 shots or something, vs 2, 3 or more times that for DSLRs. Well, I've done gigs with my Z6, and taken over 1,000 pics on a single charge, and still had some left. I'm regularly getting twice the rating or more, before I charge the battery again. This is more frequent than my DSLR, but nowhere near what the figures might suggest. The USB charging feature is a good one, as I can top up the battery if on holiday, with just the standard multi charger I bring for my 'phone, iPad etc. I'm wondering if a solar USB charger might work as well actually...
 
Bebop said:
What hasn’t been mentioned and that I really love about mirrorless, is being able to preview my images
Click to expand...
Yes.

The only non-electronic cameras which I found came close in that regard were the Kodak Retina 1B and the Leica M3 when fitted with a 50mm lens. Their bright line finders gave me a better idea of what the final image would show than any SLR or TLR I used in 50 years. Of course that is very much a personal opinion and other people will have had quite different experiences.
 
I do feel there’s a lot of mis-information being put out here re mirrorless . And be.bop above has pointed out a few of them .

lets Start with battery life I have omd1-mkii I am out virtually daily and in six months of ownership I have only ever had to change a battery once getting in excess of 700 raw files per day

next lcd screen mine is left folded in and only pulled out to change a setting if needed .. my viewfinder is set to be permanently on so it acts the same as a DSLR mirror and does not blackout between shots ,meaning I can follow and track a bird in flight easily and fire off a 20 +shot burst the limiting factor being myself .

Weight I tend to use either the Panasonic 100-400 or the 50-200SWD with 1.4tc these give respectively in full frame terms 800m reach or 550mm reach and fitted with either lens all up weight is under 1.5 kg camera and lens

focus speed ,as many will know over the years I have used cameras and lenses from both canon and Nikon in various combos and in all honesty the ML is as fast or faster to lock on to a target plus the lcd screen is wysiwyg as well making adjustments childs play

another overiding factor is In six months I have not used my tripod and gimbal once every shot is hand held .

i.q well MFT uses a smaller sensor so you get a 2x crop factor . Noise can be a problem but is very easily dealt with in p.p even given that most bird shots will need to be cropped I have not yet found it to be a real problem ,and there are lots of my photos on here and Flickr to prove that

money ..? Always a deciding factor the lenses for MFT in general are less than half or sometimes more than full frame equivalent lenses .

If your thinking about ML do take a look at Olympus as a option imho they are years ahead of the other brands at this moment in time and also. Have a superb after sales service and long warranties
 
the black fox said:
If your thinking about ML do take a look at Olympus as a option imho they are years ahead of the other brands at this moment in time and also. Have a superb after sales service and long warranties
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This is a thread about ML v DSLRs, not MFT v other formats, or Olympus v other brands. IMHO Olympus are years behind other brands; even Panasonic have stepped up to full frame now. ;)

One advantage I hadn't considered before I bought my ML cam, as the IBIS. I have VR lenses than can offer 2-3 stops lower EFFECTIVE shutter speed (real world experience as opposed to manuf's claims), but the IBIS does seem to allow even lower speeds. As for viewfinders; I've looked through loads of EVFs, and until now, none have been anywhere near a DSLR. But that has now changed.
 
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