Drone near miss at Heathrow

Anything that discourages the IRRESPONSIBLE use of the things is a good thing and hopefully makes life easier for those of you who are doing it properly.
 
I sold mine. Irrespective of flying responsibly people were starting to look at me with distaste. Shame that some idiots ruin it for others.
 
It seems there are still people who are willing to operate these outside the law, I just noticed a sale ad on another forum, amd unbelievably this is one of the major plus points being pushed for the drone.

Running firmware 1.8 - exceptionally stable. Later firmwares have no fly zone restrictions and flight distance restrictions - this one does not.
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So the fact it can fly in no fly zones and out of visual range is suddenly a selling point...
 
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Dave1 said:
It seems there are still people who are willing to operate these outside the law, I just noticed a sale ad on another forum, amd unbelievably this is one of the major plus points being pushed for the drone.



So the fact it can fly in no fly zones and out of visual range is suddenly a selling point...
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That's the problem. As time goes on my views on stronger legislation is changing. I see too many people breaking the law and not caring at all.
 
Bond6 said:
I sold mine. Irrespective of flying responsibly people were starting to look at me with distaste. Shame that some idiots ruin it for others.
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Surely, if the people giving you the eye were close enough for you to see them giving you the eye, they were too close to you for you to fly according to the current guidelines?
 
Ricardodaforce said:
That's the problem. As time goes on my views on stronger legislation is changing. I see too many people breaking the law and not caring at all.
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Even on this forum there are sellers who are using the fact their drone can do illegal things as a selling point (like having hacked the firmware to allow the drone to fly at heights only aircraft should be flying).

Rooster said:
Here is my beloved DJI Phantom Vision 2 + drone up for sale.

This has been tweaked so that it goes up to an amazing 700 feet (though you really should not exceed 400 feet) and as for range It's been 2,500 feet away in ideal conditions.
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I've only seen 2 adverts recently and both have potentially illegal abilities, this one probably being the more serious of the two that it can be flown 200 feet above the lawful maximum and getting into a scenario of real danger to light aircraft or helicopters.
 
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Dave1 said:
Even on this forum there are sellers who are using the fact their drone can do illegal things as a selling point (like having hacked the firmware to allow the drone to fly at heights only aircraft should be flying).



I've only seen 2 adverts recently and both have potentially illegal abilities, this one probably being the more serious of the two that it can be flown 200 feet above the lawful maximum and getting into a scenario of real danger to light aircraft or helicopters.
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The bit that jumped out at me was "I bought this for the wedding season to get aerial shots of venues". Commercial use then. Was a PFAW obtained beforehand?
 
Dave1 said:
I've only seen 2 adverts recently and both have potentially illegal abilities, this one probably being the more serious of the two that it can be flown 200 feet above the lawful maximum and getting into a scenario of real danger to light aircraft or helicopters.
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I know its illegal. But there are very limited circumstance in which any light aircraft or helicopter can be flown at 600'. The reality is unless its on approach to an airfield then they're going to be 1000' plus.

Which doesn't excuse the illegal flying of drones one bit.
 
Dave1 said:
I've only seen 2 adverts recently and both have potentially illegal abilities, this one probably being the more serious of the two that it can be flown 200 feet above the lawful maximum and getting into a scenario of real danger to light aircraft or helicopters.
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Lots of things are capable of operating outside of the law. Most cars, for example, can easily break the speed limit.


Steve.
 
Ricardodaforce said:
The bit that jumped out at me was "I bought this for the wedding season to get aerial shots of venues". Commercial use then. Was a PFAW obtained beforehand?
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Another good point.


Steve Smith said:
Lots of things are capable of operating outside of the law. Most cars, for example, can easily break the speed limit.
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Which isn't the same thing, I can take my car on private land and drive at any speed I like, there is NO land where it it would be legal to fly the drone at heights greater than 500 feet.
 
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Fed up of society putting drone use as an evil thing - its not - its just a small few idiots - what gets me is, with the technology we can surely program into the drone where it will/won't work?????.............simply force it to not work within say 5 miles of any air way/air port or sensitive areas, residential areas etc, problem solved!
 
Dave1 said:
Another good point.




Which isn't the same thing, I can take my car on private land and drive at any speed I like, there is NO land where it it would be legal to fly the drone at heights greater than 500 feet.
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Do you put this much thought in to poor driving?
 
steveo_mcg said:
Do you put this much thought in to poor driving?
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Why would I? Who even mentioned poor driving? It took almost no thought in realising that speed limits only apply to roads and other public areas. I would have thought most people had knowledge of things like track days for cars.

Do you put that much thought into trying to excuse the illegal activities of others? Maybe if you sit and think a little harder you could come up with an excuse as to why it's ok to hack the software of a drone to do illegal things...


Or maybe not.
 
Dave1 said:
Why would I? Who even mentioned poor driving? It took almost no thought in realising that speed limits only apply to roads and other public areas. I would have thought most people had knowledge of things like track days for cars.

Do you put that much thought into trying to excuse the illegal activities of others? Maybe if you sit and think a little harder you could come up with an excuse as to why it's ok to hack the software of a drone to do illegal things...


Or maybe not.
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No, I did a quick risk assessment and used a little bit of imagination. Even if a drone brought down an A380 it wouldn't touch the road fatalities in the UK, there are much bigger things to worry about than what some one is doing with a 5kg lump of plastic. You want to get on a high horse about something start with road safety speeding is illegal and not a victimless crime as some would think, hell start with toaster safety. There are far more dangerous things in the world than drones, untied shoe laces are probably orders of magnitude more dangerous.
 
Give an a******e anything potentially dangerous and they'll do their best to f*** it up for everyone else.
 
Nod said:
Give an a******e anything potentially dangerous and they'll do their best to f*** it up for everyone else.
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Aye, that's true. But honestly a bit of perspective is needed here its not like they weigh 1500kg, have thousands of watts of potential energy and a very simple licencing scheme that almost any medically fit idiot can obtain in a few weeks for only a few hundred pounds. Cars are cheaper, demonstrably more dangerous and have only token restriction on their use.
 
airbusses weigh thousands of pounds and have millions of watts of potential energy though, so bringing one down with a drone would cause far greater loss and damage than any single car accident
 
big soft moose said:
airbusses weigh thousands of pounds and have millions of watts of potential energy though, so bringing one down with a drone would cause far greater loss and damage than any single car accident
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Depends how populated the area is but yeah thats fair. I am unconvinced that a single drone could possibly take down an airliner, given their relative weights and requirements that airliners can survive bird strikes to one or more jets (depending size) and still land.
 
Nod said:
Surely, if the people giving you the eye were close enough for you to see them giving you the eye, they were too close to you for you to fly according to the current guidelines?
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The rules are around crowds of people and buildings. You cannot stop people walking near where your flying for example someone walking a dog

I have no issue with these in open spaces. Bad press is around built up areas and airports etc which is fair but then this creates a general opinion that drones/quad copters are bad

From a photography perspective they provide a different dimension and often very interesting results. I guess the question is what is the purpose for owning it, photography, video or to fly as high and far and dangerous as possible and that is down to the individual.
 
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steveo_mcg said:
No, I did a quick risk assessment and used a little bit of imagination. Even if a drone brought down an A380 it wouldn't touch the road fatalities in the UK, there are much bigger things to worry about than what some one is doing with a 5kg lump of plastic. You want to get on a high horse about something start with road safety speeding is illegal and not a victimless crime as some would think, hell start with toaster safety. There are far more dangerous things in the world than drones, untied shoe laces are probably orders of magnitude more dangerous.
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So it's ok to break the law if it results in less than how many deaths? Less than a months road deaths? A weeks road deaths? A days roads deaths?

Speeding is illegal? That's quite an unequivocal fact, really? Why haven't they locked Lewis Hamilton up and thrown away the key?

I despair in trying to debate with someone who can't even understand the differece between what's illegal on a public road and what's illegal anywhere...
 
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Dave1 said:
I despair in trying to debate with someone who can't even understand the differece between what's illegal on a public road and what's illegal anywhere...
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mass debating is best done in the privacy of ones own home anyway
 
Dave1 said:
So it's ok to break the law if it results in less than how many deaths? Less than a months road deaths? A weeks road deaths? A days roads deaths?

Speeding is illegal? That's quite an unequivocal fact, really? Why haven't they locked Lewis Hamilton up and thrown away the key?

I despair in trying to debate with someone who can't even understand the differece between what's illegal on a public road and what's illegal anywhere...
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So basically you're getting bent out of shape because some one, some where, may be breaking the law? You despair....

Storm teacup...
 
steveo_mcg said:
So basically you're getting bent out of shape because some one, some where, may be breaking the law? You despair....

Storm teacup...
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No, the discussion was about 2 recent sales threads, one here and one on AVF where the sellers are using the fact that there drones are illegal as the major selling point.

Do keep up, and try not to confuse the issue any further, the debate was quite civilised and friendly until you jumped in feet first.

or maybe you are happy to continue to indulge in mass debating...
 
Dave1 said:
No, the discussion was about 2 recent sales threads, one here and one on AVF where the sellers are using the fact that there drones are illegal as the major selling point.

Do keep up, and try not to confuse the issue any further, the debate was quite civilised and friendly until you jumped in feet first.

or maybe you are happy to continue to indulge in mass debating...
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I asked you a simple question, do you get that upset at people breaking the law whilst driving? Or to rephrase do you get this upset at people buying illegal Sky cards, illegal downloads etc? You seemed to perceive my questions as a threat and went off on one. So what if the vehicle is illegal, so what if its used illegally, why do you care?
 
Dave1 said:
So it's ok to break the law if it results in less than how many deaths? Less than a months road deaths? A weeks road deaths? A days roads deaths?

Speeding is illegal? That's quite an unequivocal fact, really? Why haven't they locked Lewis Hamilton up and thrown away the key?

I despair in trying to debate with someone who can't even understand the differece between what's illegal on a public road and what's illegal anywhere...
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Actually, Yes Speeding is illegal. Its a specific offence one can't speed on a race track the laws covering the generally highway don't apply.
https://www.gov.uk/speeding-penalties
 
steveo_mcg said:
Actually, Yes Speeding is illegal. Its a specific offence one can't speed on a race track the laws covering the generally highway don't apply.
https://www.gov.uk/speeding-penalties
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Sigh, it's pointless trying make someone understand that speeding is only illegal on a public road or other area open to the general public. I can speed on private land, I can even speed on a road that has been closed to the public, like at a street circuit or hill climb. Not to mention that there are a number of exemptions in the RTA that make speeding legal.

What would you call it if I was on private land, like a large factory complex that has a posted speed limit of 20mph and I drive around at 60mph?

This conversation is starting to remind me of the following:

Don’t argue with idiots because they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.
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I think I'll take that advice and leave you to fly your drone just as you want to...
 
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Dave1 said:
This conversation is starting to remind me of the following
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You and me both...

Dave1 said:
I can speed on private land, I can even speed on a road that has been closed to the public, like at a street circuit or hill climb.
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Let's use small words. Speeding is always illegal, you cannot speed where the road traffic act does not apply. Out side of the narrowly defined rules of that act you are not speeding. You may be driving fast but that is a different thing. Simple?
 
steveo_mcg said:
Let's use small words. Speeding is always illegal, you cannot speed where the road traffic act does not apply. Out side of the narrowly defined rules of that act you are not speeding. You may be driving fast but that is a different thing. Simple?
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Sigh (again), yes you can, even using your narrow interpretation of speeding, there are many places where the RTA does not apply where it's possible to speed, and it's even possible to legally speed where the RTA does apply.
 
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big soft moose said:
airbusses weigh thousands of pounds and have millions of watts of potential energy though, so bringing one down with a drone would cause far greater loss and damage than any single car accident
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Be kind of difficult to. Even assuming you went through an engine the casings are tested to withstand the engine exploding in them & they can fly with an engine out.

Simple aerodynamics suggests there is no other way to get a drone close. & the only time they are within 400 feet of the ground they're also with the airfield perimeter fence
 
boyfalldown said:
Be kind of difficult to. Even assuming you went through an engine the casings are tested to withstand the engine exploding in them & they can fly with an engine out.

Simple aerodynamics suggests there is no other way to get a drone close. & the only time they are within 400 feet of the ground they're also with the airfield perimeter fence
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While not a passenger jet, the police helicopters and air ambulances are frequently at 500-1000 feet over built up areas. The helicopter that hit the crane over London was flying at 600 feet.
 
fair enough for an airbus, but the same logic applies to bringing any aircraft down - the average biz jet won't do too well if it loses an engine just after take off or before landing , (ditto for heliflopters etc) and they still have significantly more impact than a car when they crash
 
Dave1 said:
While not a passenger jet, the police helicopters and air ambulances are frequently at 500-1000 feet over built up areas. The helicopter that hit the crane over London was flying at 600 feet.
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He was keeping a good look out too :)

It is every pilots responsibility to be seen & see and I know from personal (very scary) experience that the aerodynamics of helicopters mean you have no chance of keeping anything not just a drone flying nearby.
 
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big soft moose said:
fair enough for an airbus, but the same logic applies to bringing any aircraft down - the average biz jet won't do too well if it loses an engine just after take off or before landing , (ditto for heliflopters etc) and they still have significantly more impact than a car when they crash
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Biz jets are tested to the same standards, they can lose an engine & fly.

There is no denying there is a risk, but blown out of proportion much. I'm far more worried about the idiots in the park crashing into kids the bringing down one of the jets flying overhead on the way to land at Heathrow
 
Dave1 said:
Sigh (again), yes you can, even using your narrow interpretation of speeding, there are many places where the RTA does not apply where it's possible to speed, and it's even possible to legally speed where the RTA does apply.
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You can not legally speed.

You can drive fast, legally and illegally.

To speed you must be exceeding the posted speed limit. If there is no posted speed limit you are not speeding. If a waiver has been obtained from the RTA then it does not apply and you are not speeding.

And for the record an industrial estate would be covered by the RTA.
 
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I'd love a drone at some point.

And I'd love one that can go as high as possible for the sheer awesome beaty of the video / phots it could capture.

BUT, I'd make damn sure I was out of harms way of anything and anyone when I did it.
 
studioworks said:
After reading through a lot of this thread I'm glad to see that, sheer arragorance to be flying them over built up areas where one little mistake or malfunction could end up with them crashing down onto somebody. What happened to the old days of remote planes and taking them up the common with plenty of space to fly and almost no one around, no reason they couldn't be doing the same with drones.
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Except of course the joy of rc planes is just in the flying whereas many drones are used (according to those that have them, I do not) to capture images of stuff and things, some of which will not be located on the common with lots of space. So that is perhaps one more reason than none? ;)
 
Dave1 said:
o, the discussion was about 2 recent sales threads, one here and one on AVF where the sellers are using the fact that there drones are illegal as the major selling point.
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steveo_mcg said:
, do you get that upset at people breaking the law whilst driving? Or to rephrase do you get this upset at people buying illegal Sky cards, illegal downloads etc? You seemed to perceive my questions as a threat and went off on one. So what if the vehicle is illegal, so what if its used illegally, why do you care?
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Back on topic...
 
steveo_mcg said:
You can not legally speed.

You can drive fast, legally and illegally.

To speed you must be exceed the posted speed limit. If there is no posted speed limit you are not speeding. If a waiver has been obtained from the RTA then it does not apply and you are not speeding.
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You are still speeding, just not illegally. A police car, ambulance or fire and rescue vehicle will be speeding above the limit but have an excuse in law, a vehicle can be speeding above a posted limit on private property (for example in an industrial complex or on an airports private roads), which will lead to an internal sanction rather than being illegal and persecuted at court..

You are just digging yourself deeper and deeper by trying to pretend otherwise.
 
Dave1 said:
You are still speeding, just not illegally. A police car, ambulance or fire and rescue vehicle will be speeding above the limit but have an excuse in law, a vehicle can be speeding above a posted limit on private property (for example in an industrial complex or on an airports private roads), which will lead to an internal sanction rather than being illegal and persecuted at court..

You are just digging yourself deeper and deeper by trying to pretend otherwise.
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Have you ever read these articles?

Emergency vehicles are specifically exempt, airports are very not publicly accessible, industrial complexes ditto. The RTA only applies to public roads and publicly accessible roads. Private sanctions are not speeding, you will not get a fixed penalty notice or points. Speeding is a specific offence under the law and only applicable in narrowly defined circumstances.
 
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