Driving on ice / snow

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I am looking for TP motoring experts advice on driving in icy conditions.

Regular winter tyres only go as far dealing with iced over roads (it must be even more fun on summer tyres for a lot up here :lol:). It is certainly getting in a way of reaching remote places like Loch Etive after a cold spell, and last night it was a tense 20-plenty journey back home through Glasgow.

I was thinking about snow chains or snow socks. Firstly, are they legal on very icy, non-cleared roads if there is not too much snow (say no more than 0.5-1cm; i.e. black ice conditions)? And then there is the question which product may be a best price vs utility compromise. Do any of them fit different size tyres once I eventually get my glorified SUV (probably '08 CRV diesel) in a few months time?
 
Snow chains are only to be used where there is a build up of snow. Using them, on other surface, will damage your tyres and possibly the road surface. They are also, as far as I know, made for each particular size of wheel and therefore not interchangeable.

General advice, is to slow down and try to say in the highest gear that is comfortable. Avoid braking, unless necessary, as this can sometimes lock the wheels and cause a skid. ABS does help, in avoidance of skidding, but it does not mean that you can just brake when you like.

Other advice would be to carry a spade and it's also useful to have a piece of old carpet, to help get a bit of traction, should you get stuck.
 
johnnypanic said:
Other advice would be to carry a spade and it's also useful to have a piece of old carpet, to help get a bit of traction, should you get stuck.
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Carpet with rope.

If you tie rope through the carpet and then tie to the rear of your car when you get going you don't need to immediately stop to collect the carpet.

or you may end up constantly stopping to collect the carpet to then put straight under the wheels again......Rinse and repeat. It'll look like a Mr Bean sketch
 
daugirdas said:
I am looking for TP motoring experts advice on driving in icy conditions.

Regular winter tyres only go as far dealing with iced over roads (it must be even more fun on summer tyres for a lot up here :LOL:). It is certainly getting in a way of reaching remote places like Loch Etive after a cold spell, and last night it was a tense 20-plenty journey back home through Glasgow.

I was thinking about snow chains or snow socks. Firstly, are they legal on very icy, non-cleared roads if there is not too much snow (say no more than 0.5-1cm; i.e. black ice conditions)? And then there is the question which product may be a best price vs utility compromise. Do any of them fit different size tyres once I eventually get my glorified SUV (probably '08 CRV diesel) in a few months time?
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I found winter tyres deal really well with the snow. Ice is just going to be crap with pretty much any tyre unless its got studs in.
 
Winter tyres are good at lower temps - not just in snow and ice.

Snow chains are a bit overkill unless you're out and about in deeper stuff often.

I toyed with the idea of winter tyres for the people carrier but didn't bother in the end.

Seldom we need both cars out at the same time and the existing tyres on the Landrover Discovery (combined with 4 wheel drive / gizmos) cope OK.
 
mattyg said:
I found winter tyres deal really well with the snow. Ice is just going to be crap with pretty much any tyre unless its got studs in.
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Ice is the biggest problem so far. I had great fun driving up a hill on sheer ice. Down that hill was probably even more excitement. You are going 3mph and that is mostly sideways.

HuntingMartians said:
Just want to ask, do you live in the U.K.? And is this a knee jerk reaction to the pitiful amount of snow we get in our mild winters?
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I didn't know Scotland left the UK. :lol: I take it you didn't bother reading my post then. Oh well, let's try again. It is nice to be able to go to Loch Etive, Elgol and similar when bus drivers abandon their vehicles on the road like last night in Glasgow.

johnnypanic said:
Avoid braking, unless necessary, as this can sometimes lock the wheels and cause a skid. ABS does help, in avoidance of skidding, but it does not mean that you can just brake when you like.
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The ABS on my car is overkill. It immediately hardens the pedal if there is any sign of minimal skidding. I'll get the garage to look at it next week but I am not holding my breath on anything getting optimised.
 
daugirdas said:
I didn't know Scotland left the UK. :lol: I take it you didn't bother reading my post then. Oh well, let's try again. It is nice to be able to go to Loch Etive, Elgol and similar when bus drivers abandon their vehicles on the road like last night in Glasgow.
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I did read your post. And Scotland is still in the U.K.

The amount of snow that lies on roads in Scotland must be in single digits/year. Scotland does not get cold enough winters. For loch etive I imagine you have to deal with more rain than anything else and the same for Skye. Growing up in the highlands snow was rarely an issue.
 
HuntingMartians said:
I did read your post. And Scotland is still in the U.K.

The amount of snow that lies on roads in Scotland must be in single digits/year. Scotland does not get cold enough winters. For loch etive I imagine you have to deal with more rain than anything else and the same for Skye. Growing up in the highlands snow was rarely an issue.
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FFS. I have no interest going there on a rainy day but when there is snow. And I am currently prevented from doing exactly that. Do you get my point at all?
 
Bit of a Honda nut in general so would never rule them out however there are more capable 4x4's out there yet also less reliable ones.
 
If you consider that grip levels are 10x less in ice/snow and braking distances are 10x longer, you can figure out how to drive in it. Your car is FWD with a heavy engine over the front wheels, it will be fine. Take it steady and easy.
 
AndyB1976 said:
Bit of a Honda nut in general so would never rule them out however there are more capable 4x4's out there yet also less reliable ones.
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Reliability is a huge concern. Land Rover could simply ruin my finances overnight. I read that old Tuaregs also have 3 major design flaws, and unless fixed could cost upwards of £5k; and X5 has faulty timing chain design - again needs to be modified at huge expense.
My current car was fine up until Scotland move; it has cost me over £1k since for all sorts of little things and it is not the end.
 
I pondered an Xtrail and even a Jimny but there are too many reports of the Xtrail engine failures and the Jimny is a bit bare bones for me for an everyday car - albeit more capable then your usual SUV. Honda have had issues with their i-CDTi's too, but I believe the later 3rd Gen comes with the latest i-DTEC engines.

My mate was down the Glen Etive road in December is his A6 quattro, scarily slippy (-10°) apparently that was after he hung around waiting the electronic smart key of the car to become operational so he could get in it lol.
 
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daugirdas said:
Reliability is a huge concern. Land Rover could simply ruin my finances overnight.
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Their odd ways are somehow part of the attraction.

Speaking of Glen Etive - my friend recently bought Glen Etive Cottage (the old schoolhouse) about half way down the Glen.
 
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Snow socks work great in snow, you are advised to limit your speed to 20mph, if road conditions are bad enough to require them 20mph won't be holding anyone up. They also work on compacted snow which is close to ice so should grip. They are road legal and come in different sizes to fit different sized tyre / wheel combinations.
I have these. http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/m.html?_o...C1.A0.H0.Xsnow+socks&_nkw=snow+socks&_sacat=0
 
The snow socks do actually need some snow to be effective, so on ice only possibly not worth it, although they won't break the bank as an alternative to buying winter tyres & wheels.

I found the CRV pretty decent tbh & switching off ESP seems to help greatly.

4 winter tyres on a 2 wheel drive, can be better than Summer tyres on a 4 wheel drive.
 
Or move to this south east end of Kent where snow is as rare as hen's teeth. :D
 
AndyB1976 said:
I pondered an Xtrail and even a Jimny but there are too many reports of the Xtrail engine failures and the Jimny is a bit bare bones for me for an everyday car - albeit more capable then your usual SUV. Honda have had issues with their i-CDTi's too, but I believe the later 3rd Gen comes with the latest i-DTEC engines.

My mate was down the Glen Etive road in December is his A6 quattro, scarily slippy (-10°) apparently that was after he hung around waiting the electronic smart key of the car to become operational so he could get in it lol.
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I have an Xtrail, It's not bad at getting up the hills in snow, considering that it only has ordinary tyres on, but it's worse than useless going down hills, or changing direction, or braking on snow - the ABS kicks in far too quickly, it's probably the worst car I've tried to control in snow.
 
You could always splash out on these, looks like they would be handy

Rotogrip CS video.wmv:
 
daugirdas said:
Reliability is a huge concern. Land Rover could simply ruin my finances overnight. I read that old Tuaregs also have 3 major design flaws, and unless fixed could cost upwards of £5k; and X5 has faulty timing chain design - again needs to be modified at huge expense.
My current car was fine up until Scotland move; it has cost me over £1k since for all sorts of little things and it is not the end.
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I have been a Shogun owner for 20 plus years - owned 3 of them? or is it 4? dunno, after all the driving just one thing on my 2nd one, the pin in the aircon pump drive sheered...Now that was after 8 years owned and as I recall the aircon had never been serviced, and it should have been...

The 4 wheel drive system is very good and my latest one has reverted to a viscus lsd at the rear unlike the selectable lockable diff on my last one - too many people leaving diff lock on and driving on tarmac in dry winding up the diff / half shaft on rear....

The front diff is an are open one as I remember - box has low and high range selectable ratios and the tiptronic auto box is very good in my experience

BUT its not a range rover in ride quality - but then it is bullet proof on reliability again in my experience.........I have Yoko tyres on mine road / off road mix and they are very good in the snow - NOTHING will help on sheet ice though unless you have studded tyres....The 4 wheel drive assists the diff lock is a liability on ice...but the traction control on my current shogun is very good indeed, saved me a couple of times......
 
I was tempted by this one (my brother builds / sells) but it's sold.

ONE OFF DEFENDER for sale 1987 in audi metallic grey 100"truck cab,built on a totally refurbed and galvanised rrc chassis
series doors with rocky mountain door tops ,stainless rollcage mounted properly to chassis with spreader plates, rpi race tuned built 3.5 v8 with high performance cam, electronic ignition 4 barrel carb on performance manifold ,tubular headers, performance exhaust system,twin fan cooling system completely programable from inside the cab digital display console for oil tep pressure etc , split charge system for twin batteries completely rebuilt and upgraded lt77 by ashcroft & transfer box rebuilt to same standard , ,double de cardon wide angle front prop, wide angle rear 300 tdi spec 110 front axle with ventilated discs fitted with arb air locker. 300 tdi disco rear axle again fitted with arb ,x engineering disck brake handbrake , stainless steel fuel tank and heavy duty tank guard , nato hitch , led lights and clear lenses all round , full suspension set up from scorpion racing, adjustable panhard rod, heavy duty steering arms steering guard, drag link guard and diff guards , custom rock sliders , scorpion racing winch bumper with warn xp9.5 winch, plasma rope , thatcham alarm and imobiliser , has on board air system for tyre reinflation car is sitting on staun rims with 265/75/16 mud terrains
the car was a ground up build costing and was built as a sister car to the one mark evans built in a 4x4 is born with help and input from him
car is on a uk reg. PLG i have export cert and is registered as rangerover pickup
looking for 8k ono
i have probably forgotten lots but pm if any questions
pics from today

1512212_10205409507734963_8952906972899911243_o.jpg
 
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daugirdas said:
That is going to help me photograph snowed in Loch Etive exactly how?! :p
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Without being crass, unless you can drive the car gently down, it doesn't look like your going to get the shots. I've seen some images up there of late, the snow is actually too heavy and has removed all the features of the area. It looked better when the cover was lighter.
 
LASTOLITE said:
I have been a Shogun owner for 20 plus years - owned 3 of them? or is it 4? dunno, after all the driving just one thing on my 2nd one, the pin in the aircon pump drive sheered...Now that was after 8 years owned and as I recall the aircon had never been serviced, and it should have been...

The 4 wheel drive system is very good and my latest one has reverted to a viscus lsd at the rear unlike the selectable lockable diff on my last one - too many people leaving diff lock on and driving on tarmac in dry winding up the diff / half shaft on rear....

The front diff is an are open one as I remember - box has low and high range selectable ratios and the tiptronic auto box is very good in my experience

BUT its not a range rover in ride quality - but then it is bullet proof on reliability again in my experience.........I have Yoko tyres on mine road / off road mix and they are very good in the snow - NOTHING will help on sheet ice though unless you have studded tyres....The 4 wheel drive assists the diff lock is a liability on ice...but the traction control on my current shogun is very good indeed, saved me a couple of times......
Click to expand...

Shoguns are the 4x4 of choice of our local farming community, and they wouldn't be unless they were tough as old boots.
 
I've never bothered with snow chains or any other aids apart from winter tyres. As long as you drive correctly for the conditions you should be alright, but with going what ST4 said you won't get much of a shot. There's so much snow there it will just look like a big white hill lol. Would be better with only a slight covering of snow where there's still a bit of detail.

Took the trusty old E36 328i turbo drift car out for a spin when we got the big dump of snow last week and I was getting around fine. Summer tyres on, lots of power, RWD and interior has all been stripped out to make it lighter...all probably the worst combination for winter driving. I was getting places other couldn't because they had a poor technique, wheels spinning trying to start off, harsh braking and steering etc. I found myself starting off in second with no throttle to keep the risk of wheel spin to a minimum. I love driving in those conditions, purely for the challenge. All I have for an aid is an old carpet with bits of wood nailed to it so it doesn't slip away when you drive over it, and a shovel. Didn't have to use it that day either.

Regarding Scotland's roads, all the major ones are kept pretty clear. The only real problem you'll have is whilst it's snowing, not every plough can be everywhere at once. Given a bit of time they are normally pretty good at keeping them clear...or at least driveable.

This was Aviemore on the 13th and it was still snowing.

10404170_10203652391045865_8326421041999799712_n by Peanut651, on Flickr
 
Garry Edwards said:
I have an Xtrail, It's not bad at getting up the hills in snow, considering that it only has ordinary tyres on, but it's worse than useless going down hills, or changing direction, or braking on snow
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People seem to think they need four wheel drive for snow forgetting that although it will get you going where two wheel drive will not, it does nothing for you when you are trying to stop or are sliding sideways.
 
Alan Clogwyn said:
Shoguns are the 4x4 of choice of our local farming community, and they wouldn't be unless they were tough as old boots.
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I'm sure being cheap as chips compared to the competition has nothing to do with that at all :)

Not disagreeing that they are tough and capable, however I would really recommend driving one before committing on generalisations. I'm glad I did, let's just say that my powerboat turned a corner quicker than the steering rack of a shogun or l200.
 
dejongj said:
I'm sure being cheap as chips compared to the competition has nothing to do with that at all :)

Not disagreeing that they are tough and capable, however I would really recommend driving one before committing on generalisations. I'm glad I did, let's just say that my powerboat turned a corner quicker than the steering rack of a shogun or l200.
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Isn't crv 08 a lot cheaper? And handles better on road?
 
daugirdas said:
Isn't crv 08 a lot cheaper? And handles better on road?
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On road I agree, off-road (remember this comment was in context of the farming community) it would hide behind a try and weep ;)

As a road biased vehicle with moderate off-road going capability there is nothing wrong with the Honda CRV if you like it...For me I find the Mitsubishi's a compromise both on and off road, albeit off road it isn't so noticeable and it is really capable.

Remember just my opinion, although the slow steering rack of the Mitsubish should be pretty obvious to anyone really...
 
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